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Thread: +1 for the Guild Wars 2 Loot System

  1. #1
    Plane Touched Ware's Avatar
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    Default +1 for the Guild Wars 2 Loot System

    Source: http://www.arena.net/blog/a-rewardin...lks-about-loot

    In Guild Wars 2 we’re fully committed to the concept of rewarding players individually. This is more or less a quick way of saying that we don’t want to design a system where players argue over loot settings, turn to external “out of game” systems to decide who gets what upon downing a boss, or risk spending hours in a dungeon with nothing to show for it due to bad rolls or a ninja looter that hijacked all their treasure.

    In the case of distributing general monster loot or opening dungeon end-chests, this principle means that each player gets their own roll, so it’s alright if you are soloing and someone begins fighting alongside you. This won’t cause the loot you would receive to degrade in any way, as long as you actively participate in that combat. Likewise, when you get to the end of that big dungeon with your group, you each get to individually open the chest and receive your own personal reward.

    In the case of gathering materials from things like ore nodes, plants, and the like, this means that when you gather from that resource you use it up for yourself, but not for others. In Guild Wars 2 there is no need to race to beat other people to the same resource node. Take your time ripping that bear’s head off, because no one can walk up and steal that copper node in the back of its cave from you. You may be helping others in your world reach that copper safely, but rest assured that you’re not just clearing a path for a node ganker.
    Sounds like a great idea to me - anything I'm missing?

  2. #2
    Shield of Telara
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    There's a certain thrill in seeing a node, harvesting it before anyone else (no, not by 'ganking' the node from someone, just getting there before others) and looting a rare item from it.

    Having that node available to everyone is pretty lame imo. Just another pandering feature of modern mmo's. I'm a big fan of most of what GW2 is doing, but why not cut out the middle man and save me that wretched effort of having to run over to that node and click on it - why not plop the harvest right into my pocket. Maybe that could be a feature of 5th gen MMO's.

    Sound too dramatic? Over the top? Well... its heading that way. Isn't it?
    Last edited by Lorathir; 10-01-2010 at 07:13 AM.

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    Prophet of Telara Fozzik's Avatar
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    I like the idea... I think it's much more realistic.

    I mean honestly...if you find a vein of copper in the side of a hill and use a pick to remove a few chunks...is the copper going to be completely gone? It seems more realistic to me that another person could come along and also get some copper out.

    They seem to be very focused on the important fundamentals, like other players around you being a positive thing, in each aspect of their design. They are solving problems without tossing out what's important.

    There's a ton of good, specific info in that blog post and the one on the dye system, and the weapon and armor art is really...eye poppingly awesome. ANet continues to do a fantastic job with their marketing and info releases. They too are only talking about the things which are 'DONE', in the game and polished, but they are providing quite a bit more meat than...some other games.
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    Ascendant Kula's Avatar
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    They seem to be removing competition to solve problems. That is sad.

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    Champion of Telara g0kuenuan's Avatar
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    phased gatherable items is an amazing idea, in theory
    the loot one , from what i understood, not so awesome, a few runs and you have everything you need from a certain endgame raid
    http://forums.riftgame.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=1282&dateline=1279040  725

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    Plane Touched Ware's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by g0kuenuan View Post
    the loot one , from what i understood, not so awesome, a few runs and you have everything you need from a certain endgame raid
    That's assuming that the chance of the item dropping for you in your own personal roll is much greater than the chance of getting the item through a need/greed roll in a group. From my perspective, it's more of a conceptual change - you know that your chance of getting some item is the same regardless of external factors like other's need/greed choices, ninja looters, group leader decisions, etc. Plus, they can tune the drop percentage individually to further balance or personalize loot based on player level vs. content level, class, and/or profession.

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    Rift Disciple forestwhitakereye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kula View Post
    They seem to be removing competition to solve problems. That is sad.
    I'm confused as to how to interpret this. Are you saying...

    The developers are removing competition in order to solve design problems and that is sad because they should solve these design problems a different way.

    or are you saying

    The developers are removing the ability of players to compete to solve problems they encounter and that is sad because you see competition as a positive force.


    Maybe I should have just asked for you to elaborate on what you mean...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kula View Post
    They seem to be removing competition to solve problems. That is sad.
    want competition ... go play PVP.

    WTB the above item .... mine broke

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    Prophet of Telara Fozzik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kula View Post
    They seem to be removing competition to solve problems. That is sad.
    I thought PvE was supposed to be about cooperation?

    I like positive types of competition...what you might call "friendly" competition...with other players. I dislike negative types of competition, like kill stealing and ninja looting. It seems to me they are finding some clever new ways to remove the negative competition that still allow for them to control drop rates and things for each player.
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    Ascendant Slyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorathir View Post
    There's a certain thrill in seeing a node, harvesting it before anyone else (no, not by 'ganking' the node from someone, just getting there before others) and looting a rare item from it.

    Having that node available to everyone is pretty lame imo. Just another pandering feature of modern mmo's. I'm a big fan of most of what GW2 is doing, but why not cut out the middle man and save me that wretched effort of having to run over to that node and click on it - why not plop the harvest right into my pocket. Maybe that could be a feature of 5th gen MMO's.

    Sound too dramatic? Over the top? Well... its heading that way. Isn't it?
    I tend to agree with you, but Fozzik also makes a good point about the realism of their being enough for everyone to get some.

    The loot system sounds just like Rift's when people fight an open rift or invasion.
    Last edited by Slyde; 10-08-2010 at 11:39 AM.
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    Sword of Telara Maladhiel's Avatar
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    I like this idea.

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    Ascendant Kula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forestwhitakereye View Post
    I'm confused as to how to interpret this. Are you saying...

    The developers are removing competition in order to solve design problems and that is sad because they should solve these design problems a different way.

    or are you saying

    The developers are removing the ability of players to compete to solve problems they encounter and that is sad because you see competition as a positive force.


    Maybe I should have just asked for you to elaborate on what you mean...
    They are making the game even more of a single player game in a MMO environment and determining where loot goes rather than let the players decide.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apoth View Post
    want competition ... go play PVP.
    You're going Defiant PvP, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fozzik View Post
    I thought PvE was supposed to be about cooperation?

    I like positive types of competition...what you might call "friendly" competition...with other players. I dislike negative types of competition, like kill stealing and ninja looting. It seems to me they are finding some clever new ways to remove the negative competition that still allow for them to control drop rates and things for each player.
    As I said above, tthey are making it more like a single-player game within a MMO environment. I'm not advocating kill stealing or ninja looting but interaction between players to decide/resolve issues.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fozzik View Post
    I like the idea... I think it's much more realistic.

    I mean honestly...if you find a vein of copper in the side of a hill and use a pick to remove a few chunks...is the copper going to be completely gone? It seems more realistic to me that another person could come along and also get some copper out.
    Right.. by another person, you mean the enemy? You mean you'll leave that node half harvested, and leave the rest to the enemy? Why would you do that?

    In a world wracked with war (where even 6 bugs are insane, wanting to **** up a mechanical contraption for no reason at all,) you're going to take everything you see. There's no way you're going to just hand goods over to the enemy, then see them cut open your belly with a keen new blade gained from the proceeds of your node-communism ethics. If we're taking about realism, you will not leave that node until you took all of it.
    Last edited by Lorathir; 10-01-2010 at 09:53 AM.

  14. #14
    Prophet of Telara Fozzik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kula View Post

    As I said above, tthey are making it more like a single-player game within a MMO environment. I'm not advocating kill stealing or ninja looting but interaction between players to decide/resolve issues.
    They are actually encouraging player interaction in a lot of ways, through fundamental mechanics.

    The loot mechanics are an example of an area where they specifically removed negative competition, which encourages players to see other players in a positive way (so it's sort of indirectly encouraging social behavior). They also solved multiple other problems with their loot system (it's quite a bit more complex than just "each player gets a loot window when event is done"). It is similar on the surface to what Rift is doing, but we don't really know enough details about the systems in Rift to do more than a basic comparison.

    There are several other mechanics in GW2 which actively and directly encourage interaction, like the fact that you can combine spells / skills with other players in combat to get new effects, and everyone can rez and heal (and rezzing and healing other players has direct benefits in the form of experience). There are many others...but the point is that you can SEE from the finished design elements that they had a core "vision" to make playing socially and interacting really BETTER than playing solo...that seeing other players will be a positive thing, rather than a negative. That's the sort of thing that gets me excited.

    This is something I haven't seen nearly as much from Trion...other than being in proximity of other players during Rift content, I haven't seen how they are going to actively encourage interaction in ways that make social better than solo. Again, we probably just don't know enough about Rift to compare. Sure, there are 5-man instanced dungeons...everyone has those...but I'm talking about the heart and soul of the game.
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  15. #15
    Prophet of Telara Fozzik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorathir View Post
    Right.. by another person, you mean the enemy? You mean you'll leave that node half harvested, and leave the rest to the enemy? Why would you do that?

    In a world wracked with war (where even 6 bugs are insane, wanting to **** up a mechanical contraption for no reason at all,) you're going to take everything you see. There's no way you're going to just hand goods over to the enemy, then see them cut open your belly with a keen new blade gained from the proceeds of your node-communism ethics. If we're taking about realism, you will not leave that node until you took all of it.
    Enemy?

    First of all, we're talking about GW2 here, not Rift. GW2 doesn't have a 2-faction system, and all the races in GW2 are going to be working cooperatively (some more willingly than others) to defeat a common foe. It's a basic tenet of their design that players should see other players as a boon to their play...a positive thing that you seek out because interaction makes the game better.

    In Rift, yes, maybe you would want to take all the copper so that some defiant character doesn't sneak in and get some copper for himself...but honestly, are you going to play up the two-faction thing that much? Where you're going to try and directly compete over harvesting resources? I guess if that's your thing...
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