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Thread: Pay To Play Under Threat From Free To Play?

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    Champion of Telara Arthritis's Avatar
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    Default Pay To Play Under Threat From Free To Play?

    http://games.yahoo.com/blogs/plugged...233637952.html

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    Soulwalker Xephre's Avatar
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    In the current world-wide economy, people just can't justify paying £8.99/$14.99 a month. There's also the fact that there are games releasing today with far greater graphics and gameplay that're launching on a free-to-play model.

    It's inevitable that games, such as RIFT and WoW, will eventually turn to a free-to-play or at least a hybrid payment model. EA released the figures with SWTOR, and it's been much more profitable since they went free-to-play.

    What developers need to remember though, if they do decide to switch a game's payment model to free-to-play, is that free-to-play isn't about restricting those who don't pay, it's about rewarding those who do. The more you take away from the game, and the more you force a payment wall, the less likely you are to have long-standing players.

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    General of Telara Dyeus's Avatar
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    What is the point of this? They are still way bigger than any other MMO. They are not under as much a threat as that article makes it seem. Blizzard puts out a bunch of big name games and makes plenty of money to keep WoW going even with a "dwindling" subscriber base.

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    RIFT Guide Writer intrinsc's Avatar
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    Apple has dropped in stock price from their lofty heights in 2012. Apple is going under, guys. Their stock is worth $300 less than almost a year ago. Sell sell sell!

    https://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:AAPL
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    They could lose 75% of their subscribers and still laugh at everyone else.

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    General of Telara Kriptini's Avatar
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    ArcheAge is doing fairly well in Korea as P2P. However, it will be F2P when it releases in China, so it will be interesting to see how the models fare against each other.

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    The next big MMO coming out is definitely TESO. Initially I was sure it would be P2P. Now I'm not so sure, I think you will see more games go the GW2 route. B2P with a cash shop for cosmetic stuff but not the traditional boosts or game packs you see in F2P systems. If you want to know how NOT to do F2P I think SWTOR is a perfect example. Their system is horrific. Yet its telling that SWTOR is doing better on the whole since its change over. Is Rift at the point where that needs to happen? I don't think so. But its hard to know. It won't diminish my opinion of the game any if it does and I think they made the right choice to stick with the P2P model. I'm not sure how well Defiance is doing, but that could be a barometer for Trion about where to go with Rift and other forthcoming games (like Archeage).

    I think the takeaway is that GW2 is doing extremely well, and I think you will see more games doing this in the future because its a middle ground between traditional sub games and the much maligned F2P model.

    I doubt WoW will ever go F2P. As someone above pointed out, they would have to lose more than half their playerbase for that to even be considered. However their new MMO (Titan or whatever) may very well be B2P or F2P. Especially if Titan is a new property as we have been hearing, they won't have that built in fanbase that WoW had.
    Last edited by Khelendross; 05-09-2013 at 04:33 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kriptini View Post
    ArcheAge is doing fairly well in Korea as P2P. However, it will be F2P when it releases in China, so it will be interesting to see how the models fare against each other.
    You seem to have a fascination with ArcheAge my friend!

    My predication is that RIFT will go F2P within the next few months. When i logged into my trion account this month to renew my sub i just sat there for 5 minutes trying to justify why i keep paying but i guess i cannot let go just yet.
    Last edited by wigglywoo; 05-09-2013 at 04:35 PM.

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    RIFT Guide Writer intrinsc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khelendross View Post
    The next big MMO coming out is definitely TESO. Initially I was sure it would be P2P. Now I'm not so sure, I think you will see more games go the GW2 route. B2P with a cash shop for cosmetic stuff but not the traditional boosts or game packs you see in F2P systems. If you want to know how NOT to do F2P I think SWTOR is a perfect example. Their system is horrific. Yet its telling that SWTOR is doing better on the whole since its change over. Is Rift at the point where that needs to happen? I don't think so. But its hard to know. It won't diminish my opinion of the game any if it does and I think they made the right choice to stick with the P2P model. I'm not sure how well Defiance is doing, but that could be a barometer for Trion about where to go with Rift and other forthcoming games (like Archeage).

    I think the takeaway is that GW2 is doing extremely well, and I think you will see more games doing this in the future because its a middle ground between traditional sub games and the much maligned F2P model.

    I doubt WoW will ever go F2P. As someone above pointed out, they would have to lose more than half their playerbase for that to even be considered. However their new MMO (Titan or whatever) may very well be B2P or F2P. Especially if Titan is a new property as we have been hearing, they won't have that built in fanbase that WoW had.
    I agree. For an 8 year old game, WoW is doing well, possibly better than they could have projected when it came out. But, yes, B2P and F2P are the future without a doubt. Society has been conditioned to getting free stuff, plus GW2 shows that big budget games can work with this method. Granted, it doesn't have some of the more complicated things that I like(raiding), but it's a good looking game in a huge world which made a lot of things fun.

    Also, do we know what early Blizzard planned WoW to be sustainable at in terms of subscribers? I'm sure every single business plan for an MMO has to have a break even point in there to gauge success and profitability. I'm sure it was in the 400k-600k range. Given upgraded servers, bigger staff, higher pay, inflation, that number is probably around 1.5million subs now or whatever the $$$ equivalent of $15/month x 1,500,000 is.

    I really do think that whatever their next MMO is, and any new MMO, has to look at either of those two more seriously than the old standard which is pay for the game AND a sub. I think EQnext, TESO, Titan, etc will all follow either B2P or F2P. I just hope that either Titan or EQnext have raiding, not that BS excuse that TESO is pulling out called "Adventure Zones".

    Does anyone know what kind of model Wildstar will be using?
    Last edited by intrinsc; 05-09-2013 at 04:44 PM.
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    Rift Disciple lizbot's Avatar
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    Ahhhh ~ losing that much in three months looks pretty bad without context. But then you need to take into account that the time lines up with the MoP beta access for annual pass holders last year. I think there was a special mount involved too for a yearly sub (much like the SL promo.) It's less a sudden exodus and more the inevitable expiration of that promotion, though I do agree p2p's time is coming to an end as the mmo market has evolved greatly since it's inception. (It was always bound to happen, we live in a world where convenience and "have it your way" are pretty much a standard consumer expectation.)

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    General of Telara Kriptini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wigglywoo View Post
    You seem to have a fascination with ArcheAge my friend!

    My predication is that RIFT will go F2P within the next few months. When i logged into my trion account this month to renew my sub i just sat there for 5 minutes trying to justify why i keep paying but i guess i cannot let go just yet.
    I admit it, I'm obsessed! I've had my fill of themeparks for a good while and I want to get into a good sandbox. The fact that Trion is publishing it makes me super happy on the inside. =)

    That being said... if Rift ever goes through another major 1.11-esque change, you can bet I'll come back to try it out! (For th record, 1.11 was the precursor to me losing interest in Rift but a change of that magnitude done correctly could easily rope me back in.)

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    If a company can actually do the f2p model better then somone else and provide an extremely fun game I think there is a huge possibility that the next big thing will actually be f2p.


    I would love Rift to be f2p for PvP. cash shop for cosmetics and skins. Could possibly justify some viable pvp content updates as well.
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    RIFT Guide Writer intrinsc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keota View Post
    If a company can actually do the f2p model better then somone else and provide an extremely fun game I think there is a huge possibility that the next big thing will actually be f2p.


    I would love Rift to be f2p for PvP. cash shop for cosmetics and skins. Could possibly justify some viable pvp content updates as well.
    I think as long as there's no pay to win items it would be okay. I mean, GW2 only has pots that give you extra XP and stuff, it's not necessarily giving you an unfair advantage in PVE or PVP. I don't see why Trion is so adverse to this. I think it could do a lot of good to the game and the players have shown that they would pay for mounts and stuff by the boatfulll.
    "I love being a father, but there are some things I miss: Silence, the absence of noise, one single moment undisturbed by the sounds of a childrens’ TV program called Doc McStuffins. There is no quiet anymore, there is only Doc McStuffins.
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    Soulwalker Nicolino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intrinsc View Post
    I think as long as there's no pay to win items it would be okay. I mean, GW2 only has pots that give you extra XP and stuff, it's not necessarily giving you an unfair advantage in PVE or PVP. I don't see why Trion is so adverse to this. I think it could do a lot of good to the game and the players have shown that they would pay for mounts and stuff by the boatfulll.
    Indeed. A non pay to win F2P model would make this game better than it already is, imo, playerbase will increase in every zone/level. RDF queues will be lot faster, PvP aswell.
    Just think this game being F2P, no other F2P game would be better than this one, not even Tera, which is so crap btw...

    PS: People love cosmetics, don't know why but some are just like: "hey, look that dress, I could pay 20 bucks for it, why not? my friends will be so jelous"..
    Last edited by Nicolino; 05-10-2013 at 05:09 AM.

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