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Thread: Musings on WoW

  1. #1
    Plane Touched
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    Default Musings on WoW

    I wanted to see why people hate or like WoW so much.

    I started playing it waiting for SL to drop and am really enjoying it. I was in the closed beta but that was about the last time I played WoW.

    For me the game has a lot of depth, engaging lore, polished game play, and a host of other strong points.

    Some of the detractors seem to be: easy raids (haven't done heroics), rep grinds for raid currency gear, simplified skill system, and other things.

    TBH the community has been rather helpful and not all bad.


    Just wondering why others had vehement opposition/support for the game.

  2. #2
    RIFT Guide Writer Redcruxs's Avatar
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    its not that people hate it so much as they are annoyed by constant refrences to it while playing other games.

    WoW is (was?) so popular for a while that, since so many people played it, it is now used as a frame of reference for all other games to be compared to. This means that people tend to act like wow was the "best" or "original" or whatever which really gets on peoples nerves because in reality it was an overhyped peice of crap.

    I played it for a year during BC and while it was a decent game it was nothing to write home about. and from what i've heard now, gearflation is rampant (tanks have over 500k HP!), the character spec customization is non-existant (100% cookiecutter or you're useless), and the entire game revolves around doing endless repetitions of daily quests.

    In addition to all of that, many people feel that wow is one of the main contributors of the "dumbing down" of the entire genre of MMO's

  3. #3
    Rift Chaser Eylisia's Avatar
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    I started my MMO 'career' playing Ultima Online and refused point blank to try WoW because it was so different to what I loved (camera rotation and stuff seemed like witchcraft).

    As UO emptied, I eventually did go over and played for 6 years. I enjoyed the game and made loads of friends but after a few years, the new content just wasn't doing it for me. Same stuff, different wrapper. More grinding, more dps races and even PvP started loosing it's enjoyment. Then Cataclysm came and drastically changed things. Killing of NPC's and forever changing the landscape. Initially, it was great so see all the changes but everything quickly settled right down into the same routine.

    The community on the servers I played were largely rude/ elitist, though there were of course always a handful of helpful people and my guildies. When the shine was completely gone, I tried Rift and loved it. Yes, it is similar to WoW in a lot of ways, gear chasing, rep grinding etc, but there are so many ways to play and level, Rift Hunting, Solo Adventures and many other aspects which all give decent enough exp to be viable levelling options.

    I also play The Secret World alongside Rift. I really wanted TSW to succeed because it's open gameplay was the closest anything had come to UO since and the storylines were immense, it's buy to play now though so hopefully numbers will up and the game will survive, along with Rift!

    As to WoW ... I did go back recently and within a week I was fed up with it again. I found it aged, grindy and dull again, and so I will never go back.

  4. #4
    Rift Chaser Valliac's Avatar
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    This is going to be a story. It'll all be explained towards the end. Sorry if it rambles.

    I personally started playing MMO's on Ragnarok online. A dinky little private server that only ran from 2x to 5x exp, depending on who was on. The community was cool as hell. Total of about 30 people. Helpful, really laid-back and chill about newcomers, did event and item giveaways, etc.

    Eventually, we got a group into the game who were excessively competitive. They weren't GOOD at the game, either. So they lost WoE (think of CQ with a purpose, but guild vs guild), and lost a lot. They started harassing people in the server, bringing them down, spreading rumors, lies, and generally being ******nozzles.

    Eventually, they brought in more of their MMO friends who acted in the exact same manner. Server got bogged down with ******bags who would hack the server, took poeple's accounts, and generally made the server hell. I, and a choice few people left and started gaming elsewhere.

    We find WoW and play off and on (around Cata launch). We head to an RP server (Wyrmrest Accord. We always gravitate to RP servers due to her RP tendencies and generally cool atmosphere). We create a guild (Magical Adventures) and collect an awesome crew of people. Cata comes and goes. We raid, we do some pvp, etc.

    MoP rolls around and the community on WrA DROPS. The best example I can give is to look at some of the "Trion QQ-esque" threads in General and PvP subforms. Think of that, but amplified. I eventually figured enough was enough when people were being openly harrassed in Trade. Being told they're bad for rolling a class they enjoyed playing. That arena ratings were all that mattered, and that the game was bad and dead (despite them still paying money, of course).

    Long story short: The main thing for any game I play is community. I enjoy chatting with people, joking, being a **** from time to time. But the main focus for me is the community that plays the game.

    WoW hit rock-bottom, and hard, when it came to community. Abusers, harassers, bullies, and all-around homophobia and elitism killed it. there were no repercussions for trolls. No warnings or anything of the sort for those who constantly harassed or insulted. I had a guildie who we took in (really cool guy, damn good DPS etc) who was removed from multiple guilds because (and quoting from him directly) "we don't want any **** in our guild".

    I mean, I have more examples, but that was the main thing for me.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proph View Post
    I wanted to see why people hate or like WoW so much.

    I started playing it waiting for SL to drop and am really enjoying it. I was in the closed beta but that was about the last time I played WoW.

    For me the game has a lot of depth, engaging lore, polished game play, and a host of other strong points.

    Some of the detractors seem to be: easy raids (haven't done heroics), rep grinds for raid currency gear, simplified skill system, and other things.

    TBH the community has been rather helpful and not all bad.


    Just wondering why others had vehement opposition/support for the game.
    You and i must have played to different games... current wow lacks so much depth. Case and point, the "talent choices" are all marginally useful in general with each one not impacting gameplay at all. Gone are the days of depth where my frost dk could tank. Imo no depth, class system is super easy (talent/glyph). That is why i love rift. It has way more depth!

  6. #6
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    Being a veteran of WoW, I'd have to say a lot of things ruined the game.

    Don't get me wrong, I will always have a special place for WoW in my heart! It was the first MMO that really set off online PC gaming for me. I still remember back to when I first started playing and was just simply amazed by everything. The sense of wonder I had grew when BC released, exploring Azeroth and getting to Outland was an adventure for me. I loved the landscapes and the questing areas. Then, the following expansions filled me with the same kind of feeling. I made a few friends, and a lot of my IRL friends played WoW and it was a lot of fun when we all played together. This game brought us closer together.

    I just recently retired from WoW and am trying RIFT for the following facts:

    * WoW panders to the casual players. Cookie cutter classes, EASY raids. So dumbed down that even Leeroy Jenkin's can't do his thing.. man, do I need to go on?

    * Repetition. The repetition at end-game grinding for gear and reputation is deplorable. I've always hated doing this. Also, there are SO MANY reputations to grind for its crazy. Just made me want to throw up my hands and.. well, I did, quit.

    * Elitist jerks. So far, I have not found a whole lot of people on my shard that are stalking around in Meridian, just sitting there talking a lot of crap. I haven't been kicked from any groups for being a "baddie". On WoW, or at least in my experience, all the jerks seem to find their way into your game experience. Ask a legitimate question in Trade chat, get pounced on. Put up stuff on the AH and advertise, get jumped on. Say hi fellows, get jumped on. I just hate some of the people that play WoW. This is not the game's fault, but, lol, I thought I'd mention it since it really is a big reason I left.

    I guess this means I have a love hate relationship with WoW and we are currently separated. Will we ever get back together? Who knows.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redcruxs View Post
    its not that people hate it so much as they are annoyed by constant refrences to it while playing other games.
    This is not why people hate the game. My previous post states why i hate wow. So simplified.

    I am not discounting this issue, just the point that its why people hate it.

  8. #8
    Plane Walker
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    Default Community.

    Played WoW for a lot years.
    Loved the game. Loved the support. Loved the community.
    Then it changed.

    I remember the community was the first thing to decline, then Blizzard's support slacked off.
    Then the game was altered and given kiddy appeal.

    Although the game was still enjoyable if my friends and I isolated ourselves from the elitist jerks and newly tollerated rude children ( and I'm not refering to age here) it defeated the purpose of playing a MMO.

    I just stopped caring about WoW.

    My wife found Rift. She had a cleric to 40 before we all moved over.
    The community is excellent. The support second to none. The variety of things to enjoy seems endless. We all love Rift and care about it a great deal.

    Although over the last year of playing rift we have noticed some decline in the things about the game that appeal to us the most, overall it is still better than WoW.

    I'm not saying WoW is fail. I'm saying I prefer Rift.
    I'm sure there are worse games out there than WOW, but I've no inclination to prove it.

  9. #9
    Rift Disciple Neiwyn's Avatar
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    ./em lights a gnarled match,, and slowly raises it to my pipe.

    for myself i wouldn't go so far to say I hate WoW, more like lost interest in a game that had promise, and for a good time had a wonderful community, most that i knew had left from Eq1, to WoW ebcasue it sutied their idea of the fantasy MMO at the time.

    one of my pet peeves was the graphics, and any who played Eq1 knows that Eq's graphics SUCKED gnoll arse.. but it was the lore of the world, the sense of how large the world was that brought us in..

    those that went to WoW, had postive thing's to say,.. and that 's what brought me there.. but from Vanilla through BC i had fun, enjoyed the content, the lore.. the raids.. when WoTLK came out i was already groing very jaded with the community turning inwards like some dark spiral of bile.

    i missed the days when people, guilds, groups helped people.. long before the comming of Dps meters, gearscore ( hated that thing ) how it seemed for every reason to play aws watered down, made far to simple..

    Gamers in general want a challenge, not a silver platter with insta rewards.. what did WoW in for me, was LK's deathknight class, already have a maxed toon, start at lvl 51, do the story quest and your already hitting outlands within an hour.

    Pvp Was Fun, hell still have a figure print of my rogue from back then that i loved. ( even before the stun lock over kill ) but WoW lost all of it's luster watching the forums implode. the constant spam in channels for gold services, the gnome bodies in stormwind for websites to buy said gold.

    i could go on and on, with my displeasure with what came of it al.. but to sum up.. it just lost it's magic, while i enjoyed it, it paled compared to the level of fun and memories i had in Eq1.

    Rift however, from BETA up has reminded me of that first " oooh!!!!, oh hell bad pull run for it " feeling, sometimes RIFT does have it's blah moments but thankfully they are so few and far between.

    saying this, since i still play on 3 servers, and have 18 toons. lol


    ./em looks around curiously
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  10. #10
    Ascendant the_real_seebs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proph View Post
    I wanted to see why people hate or like WoW so much.

    I started playing it waiting for SL to drop and am really enjoying it. I was in the closed beta but that was about the last time I played WoW.

    For me the game has a lot of depth, engaging lore, polished game play, and a host of other strong points.

    Some of the detractors seem to be: easy raids (haven't done heroics), rep grinds for raid currency gear, simplified skill system, and other things.

    TBH the community has been rather helpful and not all bad.


    Just wondering why others had vehement opposition/support for the game.
    I am sort of nonplussed about their lore, just because some of it is so dependent on major characters being stupid. I liked the graphics. The community, when I was last there, was... Well, sure, lots of people were helpful. As long as they didn't think you were gay, female, or of any identifiable ethnic group that wasn't "white". There were a fair number of reasonable adults, but public channels were entirely lost to the trolls, and there was nothing being done about it.

    That said, I enjoyed the game, and while I think it's moved away from what I like some, I'd probably still enjoy it now. Except that I don't like Blizzard, since the merger. I quit over the Real ID thing, and while a lot of people think they "backed down" on that:

    1. You shouldn't have to be pushed into "backing down" over something that blatantly stupid.
    2. When the new forums went live, they displayed your (the person logged in) "real name"... Which sounds harmless until you realize that the forums are not using SSL -- so they're broadcasting name and character associations in clear text over the open Internet.
    3. They made it pretty clear that the "backing down" was temporary.
    4. They at no point acknowledged that even one meaningful argument had been advanced.
    5. They continued to push the real names thing in many other ways, took months to agree that maybe friends-of-friends visibility should be optional, and so on... Basically waiting until real people got hurt in real life before making changes. Every. Time.
    6. They've since done classy things like air videos full of inappropriate slurs at Blizzcon, then say "oh, it was all in fun, we don't see why anyone would be offended".
    7. The only actual statement they ever made on the substance of the Real ID forum complaints was that they thought their game and forums would be better off without the players who disliked this. They have never retracted that claim, or contradicted it in any way.

    Basically, that was the point at which I felt that I was no longer Blizzard's customer; I was Blizzard's product, and Facebook was their customer. Nothing that's happened since has changed my mind, and nothing they've done since has given me the impression that they have started caring whether their policies endanger people, or started thinking there is anything wrong with racist and anti-gay slurs. They only ever apologize for getting caught; they do not have anyone at any level of their decision-making chain who actually thinks these things are problems.
    You can play WoW in any MMO. You don't have to play WoW in RIFT. Oh, and no, RIFT is not a WoW clone. Not having fun any more? Learn to play, noob! I don't speak for Riftui, but I moderate stuff there. Just came back? Welcome back! Here's what's changed. (Updated for 2.5!)

  11. #11
    Rift Master BladeDancer's Avatar
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    As someone who's just came back to rift after a break on wow, I actually had a really nice time with the people there, and most of the people I've currently met in game on rift all agree on this, why we left is the currently daily grind, which is really really horrible.Gating story content behind rep is a terrible idea.
    One other common thing we seemed to agree on is that heroics there are really just tooo easy, you literally see them as free gear.
    I actually never ran into many of the issues people claim about bad community there, to be brutally honest, I've seen more abuse on our own rp server faeblight, than I did during my 2~3 months in wow, even with cross-server activity.
    Also even as a crafting fanatic... having to do crafts on every single alt I roll is kinda brutal.
    They also removed tabards for rep for some reason.
    Last edited by BladeDancer; 01-09-2013 at 10:49 AM.
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  12. #12
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lavisca View Post
    Also, there are SO MANY reputations to grind for its crazy. Just made me want to throw up my hands and..
    This is true. The rep grind is pretty out of hand. I think I've leveled at least 3 times over while doing dailies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lavisca View Post
    EASY raids. So dumbed down that even Leeroy Jenkin's can't do his thing.. man, do I need to go on?
    Also true.

    I raided normal Mogu'Shun Vaults last night for the first time and it was kinda sad. I honestly felt like we were a full Relic ID group hitting up DH. lol It was way way way too easy.

    Thanks for the response.



    I really do enjoy Rift as I'm sure all of you do and would like to see it take off and grow. By take off I don't mean have a huge player base for the sake of a huge player base. I mean have enough subs to enable Trion to throw scores and scores of developers and writers at the game to help mature it. Bug fixes, content updates, lore development, etc.

    Would love to see that happen.

  13. #13
    Rift Chaser Valliac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BladeDancer View Post
    They also removed tabards for rep for some reason.
    Because Gs said they didn't want people getting their weeks worth of bonuses and rep in one day. So they make you do one per day instead of 7 a week.

    Also Gs said (in a tweet) that tabard rep grinding was never coming back so people could stay subbed longer.
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  14. #14
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    I don't hate WoW, as a veteran of WoW since its beta up until about 4 months ago, I had always been subbed. And much like with any MMO I try and be fair minded in my criticism. I was very vocal of my criticism of Blizzard's handling of live content prior to MOP but at the same time I have to give them props for the quick turn around thus far and their next patch coming in a couple of weeks is the biggest I have ever seen from Blizzard and contains something I may actually sub just to see (A DOTA style pvp map) as well as one of the biggest raids I've seen from Blizzard. 12 bosses (13 in hard mode). I think Rift and GW2 can both take credit for finally forcing Blizzard to change how they approach live content patches. Its no longer ok to do a patch every 4-6 months with MAYBE one raid. And one pvp update a year if that. Blizzard I think has no realized the market has truly changed largely because of Rift. People now expect tangible additions to the game on a monthly or bimonthly basis. Even if that game is free (GW2) but especially if its sub based.

    That being said WoW is just to old at this point to hold my attention forever unless the new DOTA style pvp map is mind blowingly awesome I don't see myself doing more than popping in to check it out.

    I also give WoW credit for pet battles, something they took alot of crap for but is actually insanely fun.

    If anyone says that Blizzard doesn't have some of the best people at their jobs working at the company right now they are nuts, cause the designers there have been with Blizzard for years and years and any MMO company would fight to have them.

    In short, WoW deserves alot of credit, still does. However I think at some point soon Blizzard will be transitioning into a new MMO. Alot of people think it will be a FPS. I honestly don't think so. I think it will be like a next gen WoW based around a new IP or a existing IP that isn't WoW (Diablo would be an amazing choice for instance).
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  15. #15
    Soulwalker Dragonswan's Avatar
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    Like most, I started on another game before I moved to WoW. I had been playing Ultima Online and loved it. I played a bit of Diablo and Diablo 2 after my step-dad introduced me to the games. I gave DAOC a try and enjoyed that, but it felt bereft of something that i could not figure out.

    I started playing WoW with my husband almost 7 years ago and it was fun different. It had its grabs that caught my attention and held. Once Wrath came along thats when it started to lose its luster for me. Then in Cata it was okay, but still losing the luster.

    Pandaria gave it back some of the luster and I played enough to get 4 characters to 90 and had a blast with the pet battles thing, but once again I found myself bored with the same daily grinds. The little farmland patch is nice and makes one hopeful for player housing, but I do not see that in the near future.

    I have been playing Rift, EQ1 & 2, Vanguard, GW & GW2, and Diablo 3 when I hit that spot where logging into WoW just makes me go "*Sigh* Bleh..." and I log off without doing anything. I do not hate WoW, but its just meh to play anymore.
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