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Thread: PvP going down hill fast, now faster. Suggestions for better PvP games?

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    Default PvP going down hill fast, now faster. Suggestions for better PvP games?

    I am probably safe to put this in general discussion...

    Can anyone recommend some modern PvP mmo games that are good/successful or up and comers?

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    Mei
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    WoW is pretty good if you start at the beginning of the arena season.
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    There will never be balance in a MMORPG for pvp because for pvp to be good and balanced, everyone has to be exactly the same and on an even playing field. So I suggest a FPS where the only thing that matters is skill...and maybe ping.

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    played many mmos all these years and NONE has a happy pvp playerbase.
    AION,WOW,SWTOR,GW2.....all these games have ppl complaining of the unbalanced and bad pvp.
    If u play a mmo just to pvp i dont thing that u will ever find the ideal one

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    Quote Originally Posted by simpa1988 View Post
    played many mmos all these years and NONE has a happy pvp playerbase.
    AION,WOW,SWTOR,GW2.....all these games have ppl complaining of the unbalanced and bad pvp.
    If u play a mmo just to pvp i dont thing that u will ever find the ideal one
    this is like when mmo pve'rs are like "is there a obscure unknown game that is better than everything and everyone is secretly playing other than RIFT, WoW, Aion, Ect. Ect.?"

    the answer is no.
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    We have so many soul combos so many abilities but we get to use all of 3 gcd before dying.

    We grind valor gear to live longer but negate its help with nerfed healing.

    We make dps job to easy by eliminating the need for cc, purge and utility from their rotation in order to land a kill because dps is so over powered.

    Pvp is fun when people need skill to do their job when you earn a kill when a match is decided at the last moment by the smallest of margins and when all souls tank, heal, dps, support matter.

    The hardest to play souls in pvp support, tank, heals are not fun o play right now and cant do their job anywhere near the ease dps has to do theirs.

    When dps is like it is and ttk is so short pvp is decided by a 80% to 20% margin, you spend more time buffing and rezzing then you do fighting, you are a sitting duck without cd's available an a god with them available.

    When dps is king people quit the game because 80% of players are already dps but the 20% that are not dont want to dps and just say screw it. Meanwhile dps is not ex healers or tank or support they are always dps or now people stuck running a FotM soul because they have to.

    Ttk being so short is why pvp is no fun and above al else not enjoyable by good players. Its a one button spam fest that requires nothin but a macro.

    When healing is OP or it takes time to kill someone then sure dps complain but it is easier to buff healing then to balance the dps of so many souls to hopeflly fix the issue.

    People say ttk isnt to short well then why bolster, why use valor why even use break free.

    Above all else when ttk is short as it is now u see forums with complaints from great players but when ttk is long you see complaints from bads because the good dps are still killing the tanks, heals and support by using cc, purge, utility to do it.

    Again its rocks, paper, scissors but when scissor out numbers paper and rock 3 to 1 then papr and rock need to be balanced not against a single scissor but against the 3 to 1 odds thats they come across every WF and every CQ.

    We need to get id of the hea debuff, need to make it so cc, purge, cleanse and utility matter. We needplayers to even at their worse be able to get thru a roataion before being killed. We need to bring back souls that mattered before frnt line melee, melee dps focused on locking down heals so ranged could kill them and healers that can aoe since 99% of WF and CQ is a funnel fest and group fight were everyone is within 30 yrds of each other.

    Fix short ttk fix pvp simple as that. The only thing that changes is dps can spam one mcro to win and hve to use all their spells just like healers, tanks and support do all the time now.

    I mean whos idea was it to retool all healing souls, support, tank and dps. Then nerf healing in pvp by 50% before they even saw how it would work out on live. Makes no sense to do all of that just to aceive what couldve been done without theretool and a nerf neway?
    Last edited by Scarybadlady; 01-05-2013 at 04:13 PM.
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    Rift Chaser Darkjoy's Avatar
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    DAoC and Lineage 2 were great PvP games in their day.

    These days, there really is nothing in terms of PvP MMO's. Hoping ArchAge or Elder Scrolls Online changes that.

    League of Legends is fun PvP for a few games if you can stand the community.

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    Rift Master Salamol's Avatar
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    GW1 had the best PvP ever! Hopefully GW2 will improve to match it... that said, GW2 still has the best PvP right now in the current gen of MMOs.

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    GW1 had dedicated healers, unless the GW2 patch adds them in I don't think I'll be playing it again
    Last edited by Tookmyjob; 01-06-2013 at 09:36 PM.

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    GW2 is great but as you noted its wierd cause of the lack of trinity. You CAN spec healing though, you just need the right class and trait/weapons layout. SWTOR has good pvp early on as well but cause of the horrible cash shop its not worth it IMO.

    The best mmo for pvp is the one that has always had the best. DAOC. Yes its still around. its free for 14 days and you can probably get to 50 in that time to get a taste of RVR. And though its down to only 3 servers (basically 1 classic, one coop, and one fpvp) the classic server is packed. So it doesn't feel like a game thats dead. It is however a old MMO and despite some graphical updates, it plays like a older MMO. But the pvp is still the best out there.

    So honestly I think Rift is most viable option right now as many issues as it has. WoW is about the same but offers less choice. So ultimately Rift is my choice for pvp right now, if it works out like I think, TESO will be the hot new pvp MMO.
    Last edited by Khelendross; 01-07-2013 at 08:47 AM.
    Planar Breach Support Open World PVP and PVE!
    Sourcewell and PVP Rift Objective Based PVP A more resource efficient way of adding Open World Objective based PVP!
    Ember Isle Open World Style PVP Repurposing Lets do something with this amazing zone!

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    Ascendant Techie Will's Avatar
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    Play a first person shooter.


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    Icw
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    FPS until Elder Scrolls. I'm curious to see how the megaserver technology pans out definately on a new release week. The rise and fall of this game with be FIRST determined by this then gameplay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khelendross View Post
    GW2 is great but as you noted its wierd cause of the lack of trinity.
    I'm still unsure how I feel about this in terms of PvP in GW2. GW1 worked so well due to the roles people needed to fill to be successful in PvP (excluding a few team builds). Usually a couple of healers, a couple of "healer-killers" and then a damging team of 4, usually with timed spike damage. The "healer-killers" would disable the healers while the spike was taking place. It allowed for a basic metagame to be established where, if melee characters were used for the spike damage, it could be countered with blinds at the same time the spike happened. And other situations of course.

    I feel by not having these type of roles, and by having control point based gameplay, a large amount of teamwork and strategy has been taken away in GW2. Teamwork is still involved to get the win... but (for those that played GW1) I don't feel it's any more exciting or involved than Team Arenas in GW1 right now.

    WvW is awesome, but the teamwork is still not there... people are not running specific builds (like in GW1), they're just turning up. There are tactics, but on a much larger scale... it mostly boils down to one guild holding the east side of the map, and the other pushing the west.

    I think even something like GvG/HoH from GW1 in GW2 would improve things... and while there are no specific healer classes... one can spec for more healing based skills.

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    Default The problem with this discussion

    The trap we find ourselves in as players who want to pvp exclusively, is that there is no market for that, and thus no service to meet that demand. Companies like Trion Don't really have an incentive to make effort to be superior in regards to pvp because there is a formula in place that maintains the status quo of boring flavorless gear grinds industry wide. What they know about us, is that we are wanting pvp, and will settle for bad pvp rather than have no pvp at all. This is where the capitalist paradigm breaks down, and not in our favor. What honestly is needed is more subs to just leave the market entirely until some of the smaller companies get burried, and the bigger ones (the ones with resources to make good games and sustain them) can have time to read the tea leaves and design a game to market to players who want to play against eachother exclusively. Right now without question FPS is where this part of the playerbase is. Many people do not enjoy the Call of Duty esqe pseudo war stuff, and to my knowledge there is no fantasy based FPS game of note. Perhaps this is an area that needs explored.

    My statement about Trion currently though. They seem to be in the midst of serious turmoil in their business model, and do not at present seem concerned or interested in the game itself or the "community" (such as it is), only in the subs and keeping them there. There is now so little communication, and the quality and degree of communication that does exist is so poor and indecisive as to make you wonder whether or not there is anybody at the helm that is making informed decisions. There seems to be very little passion being made apparent about the development and progress of the game by the devs/community ambassadors/Forum Mods, or even the higher executives that should be taking a very direct interest in the temperature and temperament of the playerbase. And given the marketing tactics for the obtainment of new players, the ever increasing F2p level ceiling, and the shady practice of roping people into long term commitment to the game when serious effort is not planned to honor that commitment, I don't see much in the way of respect or regard for the playerbase at large but only for profit. Once a company has allowed its business model to be corrupted by the bottom line to this degree, its game is doomed, as this creates an innate conflict of interest between the players and the company. The only real question is how long will it take to slip into obscurity, and what game will the players be playing in another year.

    Ive seen this game develop from its inception, and have followed its evolution closely. It is sad to see how far downhill the general enthusiasm has declined since the first trailers and developer commentaries. And so many serious and loyal players have left that the loss to the quality of the community is perhaps too great to overcome. The playerbase is a zero sum prospect in that there are always only so many people interested in gaming, being that the market is already largely dominated by wow (even in its sad and mediocre state) This only leaves a few people loose to play these smaller games. Alienating even a few is enough to cause a large amount of damage to the rest of the perception of the rest of the playerbase (for instance, my current diatribe will im sure be discouraging to some people that read it).

    I would like to offer suggestions as to how this impending demise could be delayed or even averted, but I would need more time to put proper thought into that, as it is never a good idea to just pull stuff out of your *** and call it logical.

    Im sorry for any feelings this may hurt, or any discouragement that may be caused. I am only callin it like I see it. And I see a bleak future.
    Last edited by Anathemus; 01-09-2013 at 06:11 AM.
    "The thousand little pieces of my life, which I have tried so hard to hold onto, are slipping through my fingers again. Each time I have to pick them back up, my hands seem a little smaller. Don't pity me, kill me. Just be gentle." -from my hour of need-

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    Rift Master Anathemus's Avatar
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    Default A warning

    A warning to those of you in this thread that are discussing other games. Trion mods are ruthless about squelching competitive marketing (even by word of mouth) and you can expect to be banned or reprimanded for discussing it. I have many points against my account for just such reasons. Yet another example of the weakness of the company as a whole, it lacks confidence enough in its product to allow free discussion among its market territory.
    "The thousand little pieces of my life, which I have tried so hard to hold onto, are slipping through my fingers again. Each time I have to pick them back up, my hands seem a little smaller. Don't pity me, kill me. Just be gentle." -from my hour of need-

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