Eve Online: The mittani removed from CSM despite record 10,000+ votes!

[Tolmos]

http://soundcloud.com/aryndelvyst/th...-brendan-drain - Mittani speaking to one of the journalists from massively who sensationalized this entire thing.

This is why I have no sympathy for Mittani, aka Alexander Gianturco. He is crying and whining that his real name is attached to the word "Cyber Bully", and that it is causing him problems. OF COURSE IT IS! It was not "The Mittani" who who suggested people harrass an emotionally unstable man fresh out of a divorce to the point of killing himself IRL, it was Alexander Gianturco. His character is just that- an avatar of pixels of and skill points, and hardly a solid shield to hide behind when he, Alexander Gianturco, does something in real life and completely separated from the game.

He tried to get a guy to kill himself, apologized and then borderline mocked that apology on his private forums. He gets no sympathy here.

[bah]

http://nosygamer.blogspot.com/2012/0...amahadeen.html - article about the biased non-fact checking media. (some of which tolmos linked)

http://soundcloud.com/user8371571/va...tanniinterview - interview with mittani about what's going on now.
http://soundcloud.com/aryndelvyst/th...-brendan-drain - Mittani speaking to one of the journalists from massively who sensationalized this entire thing.

Why are you trying so hard to get people to feel sorry for this guy?

I don't care what he meant the the EVE community, he tried to get people to talk a suicidal person into killing himself. He's an ******* and deserves anything he gets and you're just making yourself look bad by trying to make it everyone's fault but his.

[Zyzyx]

This is why I have no sympathy for Mittani, aka Alexander Gianturco. He is crying and whining that his real name is attached to the word "Cyber Bully", and that it is causing him problems. OF COURSE IT IS! It was not "The Mittani" who who suggested people harrass an emotionally unstable man fresh out of a divorce to the point of killing himself IRL, it was Alexander Gianturco. His character is just that- an avatar of pixels of and skill points, and hardly a solid shield to hide behind when he, Alexander Gianturco, does something in real life and completely separated from the game.

He tried to get a guy to kill himself, apologized and then borderline mocked that apology on his private forums. He gets no sympathy here.

Your link must've been broken.

What I heard was the whiny journalist crawling on his knees sniveling in apology admitting that mittani didn't "cyber bully" anyone before he edited his article to reflect that.

[Flimble]

Perhaps Alexander Gianturco should HTFU.

[Tolmos]

Your link must've been broken.

What I heard was the whiny journalist crawling on his knees sniveling in apology admitting that mittani didn't "cyber bully" anyone before he edited his article to reflect that.

The journalist can cower and beg all he wants, but what Alexander said doesnt change. What Alexander did WAS cyber bullying, WAS attempting to get a man to commit suicide and WAS one of the most horrendous things that have happened in relation to EVE online. Some journalist not having a backbone doesn't change the words the words Alexander said.

Why are you trying so hard to get people to feel sorry for this guy?

I don't care what he meant the the EVE community, he tried to get people to talk a suicidal person into killing himself. He's an ******* and deserves anything he gets and you're just making yourself look bad by trying to make it everyone's fault but his.

This. The information and exact quotes are available for everyone. No one here cares about in game politics for EVE, so folks saying "Oh its just Goon haters" is irrelevent. Most folks don't even know who the Goons are here. What they care about is that a POS of a human being thought it would be funny to get the playerbase of EVE to harass a man into killing himself.

[the_real_seebs]

I love the use of the word "sensationalized" to refer to "observing that a community representative tried to get someone to kill himself".

I'm not an elected rep and I have no power to speak of, and yet, if I'm a little snippy with people I get outraged complaints. This guy tries to get people to harass someone into killing himself, and he has defenders arguing that it's not a big deal. Wow.

... Well, a defender.

[Tolmos]

As one of the nations that fought against the Evil Bastages in Shadowbane, I can still say they are one of the most hated groups that I had the displeasure of playing against. That style of play literally drove people away from the game since they played only to make you so miserable that you would quit the game. They also wanted to do many other things that I couldn't even post here without it getting edited. Having guilds, groups, and individuals that can be classified as bad guys is good for any game, but groups like the Evil Bastages took that to a level that was unhealthy for the game and contributed to its slow demise. They were extreme griefers that wanted to ruin your life and laugh at what it did to everyone around them. Yes that is evil, but its also not good for most games that want to be successful.

Not to go off topic, but I believe guilds/nations like the Goons and Evil Bastages are exactly what games like EVE and SB needed, simply BECAUSE of that type of gameplay. If EB hadn't been around, LKK and United Humpers would have had a huge carebear fest and everyone would have been all love and peace throughout the game. EB brought raw and cruel carnage to the world, forcing those "good" alliances to step up and wage war against them, defend their homes and ultimate give everyone a reason to come to that night's bane. Because for LKK, losing Tombstone on the north eastern tip of their island would have spelled the end of the "Good" forces of that server.

And players in EVE and SB don't even roleplay. That's just what it came out to be when people played the way they wanted to =D

EDIT: Though, I may be a bit biased since I was in EB main... despite the rest of my RL friends who played being officers in LKK (AFK, Bubblez and Ipee)

[the_real_seebs]

You can have a game which is basically a game played by people who view each other as fellow players, and that can be a fun game. You can have a game played in a hostile and competitive way, and that can be a fun game.

But the people who like one of them won't usually like the other, and the people who want things to be hostile definitionally win -- if they are there, no one can have a friendly sporting game, because that has been taken off the table.

You can have interesting stories and battles in which people are playing in a way which is hostile to avatars, but not to players. Once you have hostile-to-players, though, the people who don't like that will mostly leave. So EVE has ended up with a community of people nearly all of whom consider it fun to play hostile-to-players. And no one who doesn't enjoy personal animosity as an activity will likely enjoy the game.

It's a tradeoff. Me, I don't enjoy hostile-to-players, so I don't play games where it's tolerated.

And one of the reasons I don't think it's a great idea is simply that hostile-to-players creates an environment where it is inevitable, humans being human, that people will do stuff like try to cause other players to commit suicide. If they wouldn't, they aren't all that hostile-to-players, so eventually they'll get there if they didn't start there.

It turns out that setting expectations for how people should behave influences them.

[Galibier]

In listening to that podcast this is what I got. Reporter cowering a bit because as a non-NA person he did not understand the context that "cyber-bully" has in NA vs the EU.

Other dude trying to essentially gloss over his actions that resulted in the original Eurogamer article (the facts of which he never actually disputes) but who is now very concerned that through out the internet his real name is attached to these actions. Essentially he seems to believe that since he did this at a gaming convention of sorts irl he should still enjoy the anonimity that a user name and password provides in the pixelized world of a video game.

Look at it this way. A 50 year old politician boinks a 16 year old in a state where the age of conscent is 16. He gets called a a dirty old man and eventually that becomes "pedo....." Now can he sue a news paper over being called a pedo....? Yeah but most people would still think he is a freak boinking a 16 year old and he is losing his job with or with out the use of the term, drunken boink or no.

Pretty much same thing here. The guy was an idiot, said a mind boggling stupid and reprehensible thing which has had consequences. However instead of saying "I made a horrible mistake, there is no excuse for my actions and for the good of all I am stepping down. That said I think the use of certain words to describe my actions went to an extreme." Focusing on the use of his real name is stupid because what he did he did in real life. If I meet guildmates at a bar or convention I would feel like a complete *** if I did not ask them their real name and call them by it. Then again I see myself as a psychologically balanced person who understands there are consequences for actions I take irl.

[Zyzyx]

It's more like the president declared a war on "terrorism". One of his soldiers was able to kill Osama bin laden. Next, in a press conference the president relays this fact and pictures of Osama in his final days are released. Instead of rejoicing that the terrorist leader is dead, the media is focusing on the fact that the president ordered what could be considered by some, the breach of a foreign nation's sovereignty and the murder of a human being.

[Zyzyx]

Another issue is the fact that 12.5% of the votes in the election are negated by the actions of CCP and the media. Those players deserve to have their voices heard. They should be able to vote again or have mittani select a replacement.

[Tolmos]

It's more like the president declared a war on "terrorism". One of his soldiers was able to kill Osama bin laden. Next, in a press conference the president relays this fact and pictures of Osama in his final days are released. Instead of rejoicing that the terrorist leader is dead, the media is focusing on the fact that the president ordered what could be considered by some, the breach of a foreign nation's sovereignty and the murder of a human being.

Yes, I love apples. however, squirrels are a big problem in the cities. (Just trying to make as much sense to the current topic in my post as you did in this one. >_> Some guy who plays a video game that not many people log into, and happens to be halfway good at that video game, got drunk and tried to convince a group of people to bully a man to death. TO DEATH. He was banned from the game and removed by the company that runs the game from his spot as representative of the player base. How is that in any way comparable to your analogy? lol)

Another issue is the fact that 12.5% of the votes in the election are negated by the actions of CCP and the media. Those players deserve to have their voices heard. They should be able to vote again or have mittani select a replacement.

12.5% of the votes were used on an unstable individual who acted in a way that no normal, sane person would have regardless of the amount of alcohol consumed. He was removed. Not to go all US-centric here, but since your analogy was US based I'll do mine as well: if the President of the US got impeached, would there be a revote? No. Would he be allowed to select his replacement? No. He would be removed without fanfare and the Vice President would take over.

Mittani was removed. Second most votes will likely receive the chair. One of the reserve CSM will get the vacant spot. No frills. No fanfare. A simple chain.

[Sargonnas_KoA]

Not to go off topic, but I believe guilds/nations like the Goons and Evil Bastages are exactly what games like EVE and SB needed, simply BECAUSE of that type of gameplay. If EB hadn't been around, LKK and United Humpers would have had a huge carebear fest and everyone would have been all love and peace throughout the game. EB brought raw and cruel carnage to the world, forcing those "good" alliances to step up and wage war against them, defend their homes and ultimate give everyone a reason to come to that night's bane. Because for LKK, losing Tombstone on the north eastern tip of their island would have spelled the end of the "Good" forces of that server.

And players in EVE and SB don't even roleplay. That's just what it came out to be when people played the way they wanted to =D

EDIT: Though, I may be a bit biased since I was in EB main... despite the rest of my RL friends who played being officers in LKK (AFK, Bubblez and Ipee)

As you can see from my name, I was in the KoA Nation as one of the leaders on Vengeance and was a part of the last roadblock to EB basically blowing up the server when they allied with the b*tches in KGB.

I don't exactly disagree with you, but being on the other side of all that I think some people took it way too far. As a player what you say may be mostly correct, but for a business running a game looking to make a profit, having a group like EB around was a slow growing cancer that made people leave the game over time because many of them were such extreme griefers. Besides the bugs in Shadowbane and some of the stuff that didnt quite work right, the playerbase itself helped bring about the downfall of Shadowbane.

That game had some of my greatest and worst moments in playing an MMO between our time on the Deception and Vengeance servers. It came out before its time and before technology could really allow a game like that to work.

[Galibier]

Another issue is the fact that 12.5% of the votes in the election are negated by the actions of CCP and the media. Those players deserve to have their voices heard. They should be able to vote again or have mittani select a replacement.

Umm no they don't. CCP is a for profit company. Like any other company when someone, who arguably respresents them, gets drunk and says or does something actionable, either civilly or criminally they need to take action and make no mistake if CCP had not taken action for such a statement made publically they could have been held liable if any idiot followed through on what their CSM did. This is how things work in the real world and while the CSM may operate largely in the figital CCP has a definite real world position they need to protect.

Listen, I don't play the game, don't know any of the people and after listening to the podcast first read only the Eurogamer article because the CSM all but said that article was entirely accurate and that it was those that followed that "sensationalized" it, so I have no vested interest in the story and really about as neutral an oppinion as you can get. I also know how the law works and CCP did what they needed to do to protect themselves from any potential civil liability.

I won't even comment on your first analogy because it is perhaps the most ridiculous one I have ever seen. The closest I can think of which MIGHT have been even close was Ollie North falling on his sword for Reagan over Iran-Contra. The problem is there the question was whether Reagan was firectly responsible for the violations by saying "ollie, trade weapons to Iran for cash so we can fund the Contra's". Here CCP did not have a meeting where they said "dude encourage people to harass a depressed dude till he off's himself on a video feed." he got drunk and acted like a jack *** and only a complete narcisistic personality would do so and then think it was no big deal.

What is sad is all of the people who clearly have no clue on how the real world operates.

[FaheyUSMC]

I'm a current player of EVE Online, and I figured that since this appeared on a forum of a game I used to play (and I can post) I figured I would chime in on what is going on.

Yes, The Mittani ("Mittens") was suspended form the game for 30 days. He "stepped down" as the chairman of CSM 6, and is no longer able to serve on CSM 7. He can run for CSM 8, but there's a lot of talk right now that he may not be able to (CCP is evil like that).

The Fanfest video shows him being an ***. EVE Online is a harsh environment, where we are complete and utter tools to one another because it's what is allowed in the game. That doesn't mean that there aren't lines that should be watched - this is a great indication of where the community in general draws lines and says someone has gone too far.

The thing to remember is that if this hadn't made it to the "major" news media for games (like Eurogamer or Massively) CCP probably would not have acted. However, CCP and EVE Online has been in a massive negative light since this summer. At the time, the newest expansion ("Incarna") had just rolled out, and along with it came the Noble Exchange ("NeX"), which offered in-game items for real life currency. Now, EVE is 100% player-driven. Anything that you can buy is generally made by people in the game, and so something like this coming along started to worry people. There was a lot of worry, for example, of new ammunition for guns or new ships being available that could very well upset the balance that we have. Players were no happy, and the following thread (we like to refer to it as a threadnaught) appeared:

http://community.eveonline.com/ingam...readID=1536065

Players were livid, and rightfully so. It is during this time that The Mittani especially called for action. he stated that he knew CCP hated being in the limelight for something like this, and to get our answers (we were being ignored at the time) we should start posting on sites like Massively.

To make a long story short, CCP answered our questions, but it took two weeks to do so. Mittens was the biggest proponent of using social media and gaming media to get the word out and make CCP act. it's no surprise, then, that when the story broke on the same media about him he was quick to denounce said media outlets.

CCP now had another negative mark next to their name. Having seen how the gaming community acted when it came up last summer, they decided to take this seriously. Yes, Mittens got a slap on the wrist. But it's better than what would have happened had it not gone public.

The Mittani and Goonswarm have one thing in mind: Destroying any game they join for other players. The thing is, EVE Online is the game they've always wanted. They can scam and be general ******s to anyone, and there's very little repercussions. It is refreshing, to be honest, to see over 4,000 people start crying about the actions taken. Make no mistake: the 10,000 votes Mittens got were from Goonies and their alts on other accounts.