Trion killed Rift.

[Noxik]

Aren't we going to get tired of this conversation at some point?

Yes, they're making raid content more accessible.

Stopped reading right here...

1.6 - Content was 100% accessible to anyone.
1.7 - Content is 100% accessible to anyone.

Making it easier doesn't make it more accessible, it just reduces the effort players have to put forward to kill the bosses and get the same rewards other players worked hard for... It's no more accessible than it was before. I would answer the rest of your post but I didn't read it and won't, because your mindset is wrong from the start which makes the rest of it null.

[bluedot]

When end game content is added, and bigger and better tiers of gear become available, the effective time it takes to get from Level 1, to Best in Slot gets longer and longer.
At launch of the game it only took roughly 1 - 2 months to through the Tier 2 dungeons and GSB. As content was added, like River of Souls, Hammerknell, and Ember Isle, that 1 - 2 months could have stretched to more like 5 - 6 months.

Trion is attempting to keep the ramp up time at relatively the same amount that it has been since launch, thus allowing new players to be able to join their friends and guildies in the latest content in a reasonable amount of time.

This is why content is "nerfed" at a consistent pace behind the bulk of the player base.

It is actually very smart game design.

[the_real_seebs]

It's not that the answers don't persuade me, it's that they're illogical

Not really, no.

Trion's stated goal, which they stated in a recent interview and have probably stated other times, is to make sure more people get to see the content.

Interview with Adam Gershowitz

TTH: Some players are worried about the difficulty level of end-game being reduced too dramatically due to some proposed boss changes in Hammerknell. Can you give us some insight into the process behind these changes?

Adam: That's a tough thing, it isn't tough to give you insight but it can be tough to make people understand why we are doing it. We have a variety of different players playing the game and in the case of Hammerknell, or any top tier raid, you have those initial world first guys who want to do everything as fast as possible - and for them we like to make sure the content is as challenging as possible. But over time it doesn't make sense for us to keep that content that hard because those players are going to move on to something new and more exciting and other players won't get a chance to experience that content. Our initial tuning is always about challenge and difficulty but over time we ease up on that and will continue to do so to make it more accessible for all players.

Most of these changes are happening because we have a new raid coming out and we want to make sure that those hardcore guilds as well can finish gearing up their members or get those final few drops to make sure they are ready to go for that new raid when it pops. We also know that many guilds are bringing new raiders into the zones and this should help them get those players up to speed quicker.

Underlining mine.

Let's repeat that:

But over time it doesn't make sense for us to keep that content that hard because those players are going to move on to something new and more exciting and other players won't get a chance to experience that content. Our initial tuning is always about challenge and difficulty but over time we ease up on that and will continue to do so to make it more accessible for all players.

That's the reasoning. And yes, it's logical. They have a problem: Many players will not get to experience this content if it stays this hard. (You may disagree, but they're the ones who have complete logs of every single fight that has ever happened in the game; you're not. They win.) Their solution is that if they make the content easier, more people get to experience it. They've done this to previous raid zones, and again, they know what actually happens. They know what the outcome is.

So it seems to me that they have a logical solution. You may have problems with it, but the fact is, the solution is a response to a problem, and it is a reason to take these actions. You might think it's not a good enough reason, but there it is, the reason.

[the_real_seebs]

Making it easier doesn't make it more accessible

Not true. Not all players have the ability to get good enough to clear all content, and many would like to see it without radically altering the way they approach games.

Never did see your answer: What percentage of players do you think have ever zoned into the HK raid?

[Tenof]

it just reduces the effort players have to put forward to kill the bosses and get the same rewards other players worked hard for...

As long as your post originates here, no discussion will develop into anything meaningful.
To my eyes, you are not seeking any logic. You are merely seeking justification because you know there is no compensation.

[Acesfool]

Trion killed Rift

Thank god. That guy was getting on my nerves.

[Skidrow Bro]

When end game content is added, and bigger and better tiers of gear become available, the effective time it takes to get from Level 1, to Best in Slot gets longer and longer.

Funny how that works when they add more content to a game. It's not suppose to get shorter.

[intrinsc]

Funny how that works when they add more content to a game. It's not suppose to get shorter.

So, you are basically saying that it would be good design to have you go through every tier of WoW raiding, from vanilla through firelands, in order to do Dragon Soul. Thank god you aren't a game designer or in charge of anything.

[Skidrow Bro]

So, you are basically saying that it would be good design to have you go through every tier of WoW raiding, from vanilla through firelands, in order to do Dragon Soul. Thank god you aren't a game designer or in charge of anything.

Apprently you do not know what an RPG is

[the_real_seebs]

The ideal case is to have some of the old content get a little shorter/easier, and in particular, to allow people to bypass it a bit on alts or when playing with well-geared friends.

Ideally, you'd set it up so that even people who have full T2 raid gear could gain some additional value from T1 raiding, too, so they have reason to play with less-geared people.

[the_real_seebs]

I, for one, am outraged that people these days have cell phones with processors and graphics in them. When I was in college we really had to work hard to make even simple graphical demos, and changes in computers since then have really cheapened all that hard work we did.

You have no idea how offensive it is for the people who put years of work into software development to see people just pick stuff up and use it and be happy. We had to work for months or years to get that far, and they just walk into a store and pick it up?

I also think it's really insulting when people who don't have crippling hereditary mental illnesses have pleasant lives. I mean, how dare they do things they enjoy and be happy when some people spend years trying to learn coping mechanisms for their depression?

Effort is the one true indicator of value. When people use shovels to dig, it cheapens the work done by all the people who have dug with their bare hands.

[WriteThemWrong]

Effort is the one true indicator of value. When people use shovels to dig, it cheapens the work done by all the people who have dug with their bare hands.

lolwut

[Noxik]

I, for one, am outraged that people these days have cell phones with processors and graphics in them. When I was in college we really had to work hard to make even simple graphical demos, and changes in computers since then have really cheapened all that hard work we did.

You have no idea how offensive it is for the people who put years of work into software development to see people just pick stuff up and use it and be happy. We had to work for months or years to get that far, and they just walk into a store and pick it up?

I also think it's really insulting when people who don't have crippling hereditary mental illnesses have pleasant lives. I mean, how dare they do things they enjoy and be happy when some people spend years trying to learn coping mechanisms for their depression?

Effort is the one true indicator of value. When people use shovels to dig, it cheapens the work done by all the people who have dug with their bare hands.

You go to school... you study in whatever you need to to get the job you want. You get hired, you get paid a relevant amount for the task you perform.

Someone else gets hired, to do the same job as you, no training no past experience, and gets paid the same thing you do.

While it's not my overall point of this example, here's where you and I differ... you say "Aw that's good, good for him, kittens and ponies and rainbows for all." while I say "no **** that guy". However, not the point I'm driving at.

That idiot then gets put on a job with you, where you have to explain **** he should be trained for, multiple times, until he barely is able to squeak by doing what the **** he should already have basic understanding of how to do. Acceptable?

When using an example, try to make it relevant to the topic at hand, and by the way... go read http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...ml#post3581274 and silently back away like the rest of the entitled casuals did please. Thanks.

[the_real_seebs]

lolwut

That's pretty much what I thought.

But we've been repeatedly told that if person A does a thing, and then person B expends less effort and also does that thing, that everything person A did has been cheapened and belittled.

Clearly, shovels are an insult to people who have dug without them.

[Custom]

MMO's are always going to change. This is something we all know when we sign up and pay our subscription fees. They do the best they can to make the game as fun and as playable as possible but you can not appeal to everyone all the time. I also read alot about how they need to Balance the classes, why? Casters/Wizards/Mage/etc. should always be able to out DPS a tank. For some reason in Rift alot of people think that no matter what class they play they NEED to be a high DPS, Tank. Heal, etc. which is fine but remember to just have fun and play the game the best you can. We forget a times it is just a game and we need to just take a deep breathe and relax and play it to have fun.