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Thread: I miss cc in PVE

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default I miss cc in PVE

    There is a certain level of strategy and forcing people to pay at least a little attention when cc is required in PVE. Imo it's also a fun mechanic. I don't know why the current mindset is run in tank everything while the team aoe's everything down and if we can't do it that way we need a better tank/healer/dps. I miss the day of cc in pve.

  2. #2
    Soulwalker Faylis's Avatar
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    /signed

    As a former Bard from EQ i do indeed miss this!

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    Ascendant Warbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cachic View Post
    There is a certain level of strategy and forcing people to pay at least a little attention when cc is required in PVE. Imo it's also a fun mechanic. I don't know why the current mindset is run in tank everything while the team aoe's everything down and if we can't do it that way we need a better tank/healer/dps. I miss the day of cc in pve.
    Yep, most of the challenge left when they nerfed normal Tiered dungeons.Ever since that move they have consistently nerfed any difficult content.

  4. #4
    Ascendant Wolfetx's Avatar
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    i personally do NOT miss the need for CC!
    I have played a very long time and have always hated the need for CC.
    I like the round them up and mow them down type of runs. I find blowing stuff up fun.

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    Ascendant Zoid's Avatar
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    Go play Guild Wars, it's no tank and spank, only CC involved with healing. Guild Wars 2 will be only CC and support healing.

    There's a real game for you.
    http://forums.riftgame.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=92262&dateline=134088  9999

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    Prophet of Telara Lande's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfetx View Post
    i personally do NOT miss the need for CC!
    I have played a very long time and have always hated the need for CC.
    I like the round them up and mow them down type of runs. I find blowing stuff up fun.
    And this is the mentality that brought games of this genre to this point.

    Why not just a play a MMO that is built around this play-style, instead of convincing devs to dumb everything down?

  7. #7
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lande View Post
    And this is the mentality that brought games of this genre to this point.

    Why not just a play a MMO that is built around this play-style, instead of convincing devs to dumb everything down?
    Indeed. I can only shake my head at this. I want dungeons to be hard - require at least preliminary teamwork and some sort of thought on the players end. CC is a way to accomplish this. I would also be excited to see any other mechanic that does this. Please, please, please give us some difficult things to do. If we can cater to all the different player types (raiders, casuals, pvpers) why can't we also cater to the ones that actually want a good challenge. But make it strategy and execution based - not just another gear check - yawn.

  8. #8
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfetx View Post
    i personally do NOT miss the need for CC!
    I have played a very long time and have always hated the need for CC.
    I like the round them up and mow them down type of runs. I find blowing stuff up fun.
    Couldnt have said it better myself.

  9. #9
    Shield of Telara EranB's Avatar
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    In recent years, MMOs have gone through a process of being more simple, and in turn more fun.

    It's true, needing CC made the instances more difficult and added a bit of uniqueness to the instance run.

    But ask youself this, was it actually more fun?

    Was killing a few mobs, while having a sheep and a sapped dude next to them something that made it a more enjoyable experience?

    I don't think it really added anything... if CC was something that had to be maintained all the time by a support class between recasting buffs, that would've been really fun.
    Seeing as it was never this way, and in fact was just a spell you cast during an encounter to take a mob out of combat...

    Well, it's unneccesary, and did not pass the test of time.

  10. #10
    Prophet of Telara Lande's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EranB View Post
    In recent years, MMOs have gone through a process of being more simple, and in turn more fun.

    It's true, needing CC made the instances more difficult and added a bit of uniqueness to the instance run.

    But ask youself this, was it actually more fun?

    Was killing a few mobs, while having a sheep and a sapped dude next to them something that made it a more enjoyable experience?

    I don't think it really added anything... if CC was something that had to be maintained all the time by a support class between recasting buffs, that would've been really fun.
    Seeing as it was never this way, and in fact was just a spell you cast during an encounter to take a mob out of combat...

    Well, it's unneccesary, and did not pass the test of time.
    I don't buy into the fact we've lost complexity as statement that some mechanics/features didn't pass the test of time. The simple fact is, these things were removed because the bar on subscribers was raised to such a height that companies had to start appealing to the lowest common denominator to reach the 'needed' subscriber numbers. And it's not just CC.

    Regarding CC itself, did it make things more fun? In my mind, yes. That was many times more fun than simply blowing through everything as quickly as possible. I'd rather see a dungeon be a dance where everyone has to be on their toes, rather than the pewpew arcade-action it is today.

  11. #11
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lande View Post
    I don't buy into the fact we've lost complexity as statement that some mechanics/features didn't pass the test of time. The simple fact is, these things were removed because the bar on subscribers was raised to such a height that companies had to start appealing to the lowest common denominator to reach the 'needed' subscriber numbers. And it's not just CC.

    Regarding CC itself, did it make things more fun? In my mind, yes. That was many times more fun than simply blowing through everything as quickly as possible. I'd rather see a dungeon be a dance where everyone has to be on their toes, rather than the pewpew arcade-action it is today.
    I agree that it was fun. If i didn't think it was I wouldn't have asked for it's return. I hate the current blow the hell out of everything instance. I love the style of mmo combat from number crunching to kiting but dislike the idiot proofing the entire genre has seen. Sorry if you thought it was too hard - go back to your xbox. Some of the greatest gaming was to be had in eq and early wow. Stuff was hard. Groups wiped - a lot. But when you got it all right it was wonderful. Now you wipe - group disbands. And they should cause the instances are painfully easy. Please give us challenges that arent artificial (dps races, focus minimums etc) those i understand there necessity but some of us out there are looking for more.

  12. #12
    Rift Disciple briqo's Avatar
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    DAOC.

    hard interrupt system and real CC made casters actually think.
    Decibel - a really bad bard
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    <Goes Down Easy> Guardians of Shatterbone
    Exquisite Cloth offers a quest!

  13. #13
    Plane Touched
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    I agree with the OP wholeheartedly. As someone who played WoW since it was released, as well as a variety of other MMOs (allods, warhammer, guild wars, anarchy online, rift...) The most fun I've ever had has been doing 5(or 6) player dungeons that involved paying close attention at all times. One of the things that makes dungeons fun for me is having complex and challenging boss mechanics - the thrill of knowing you can potentially lose makes or breaks the dungeon for me. Another mechanic that I particularly enjoy is CC, not because it is particularly challenging, but because it means having to strategize and play smartly.

    Probably my favourite dungeon ever was Sethekk Halls in WoW's first expansion, where mobs could knock you back into other groups, mind control you, or fear you into other groups if they were not properly controlled, and where the final boss pretty much forced you to position correctly and to react promptly. Naturally, these mechanics became trivialized by gear eventually, but that's beside the point.

    I suppose it's worth noting that finding a group for Sethekk Halls was... not easy... not easy at all. In fact, once the dungeon finder was released in WoW's second expansion, I noticed a disturbing trend where players would instantly drop the group if the random dungeon happened to be one of the 'harder' ones (in this case, The Occulus... which wasn't actually hard at all, but w/e)

    Unfortunately, like Blizzard and all other MMO developers at the moment, Trion is faced with a dilemma: create a dungeon that involves challenge, and have it be next to impossible to find people to run it, or create a dungeon that involves no challenge, and have the people who actually enjoy challenge just tough it out. Another part of this is the idea of challenge vs. reward: if the dungeon doesn't offer sufficient rewards, even people who enjoy challenge won't bother most of the time, but if it DOES offer sufficient rewards, you're essentially locking the players who don't enjoy cc out of the game. Requiring certain skills is also problematic because it forces you to bring certain classes/souls into the dungeon beyond just the holy trinity... it becomes a holy quartet or holy quintet instead.

    All that being said, can anyone fill me in on how master mode dungeons fit in with regards to cc? It seems to me that taking MM dungeons out of the LFG list could only help the cause for those of us who enjoy cc, because it would enable those who DON'T to self-select out from running them.

  14. #14
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by EranB View Post
    In recent years, MMOs have gone through a process of being more simple, and in turn more fun.

    It's true, needing CC made the instances more difficult and added a bit of uniqueness to the instance run.

    But ask youself this, was it actually more fun?

    Was killing a few mobs, while having a sheep and a sapped dude next to them something that made it a more enjoyable experience?
    Yes I did enjoy having something else to do besides hack-n-slash. If you want that, go play Diablo or another game of the like.

  15. #15
    Ascendant Hotter's Avatar
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    Second xDeepstrike boss and the quest boss after last xKB boss are two cc fights I can think of.

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