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Thread: why do Asian MMO have bad rep?

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    Ascendant tro44's Avatar
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    Default why do Asian MMO have bad rep?

    Here is a thread over on MMORPG.com talking about a new Asian MMO.

    But I am curious why the OP felt the need to single out the fact that it was Asian MMO as if they have a stereotypical theme of being bad.

    the only complaint I have heard over the years about Asian MMO, have been the Grind. (which all MMO also have).

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    Prophet of Telara Sozu's Avatar
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    I played FFXI for 5 years. I played Aion for a year. I enjoy many aspects of "asian mmo's". But other aspects are absolutely terrible. Asian mmo's are usually FULL of bots and spammers. There's probably 4 RMT in every asian mmo for every one in NA region mmo.

    That's the main difference I see. That and the actual grind is far worse. If you think Rift is grindy then you never really played an asian mmo lol. Even on the NA version of Aion developers admitted they "toned down" the grind because NA players couldnt handle it after playing WOW lol.

    One thing Asian developers do a lot better though involves endgame content. It's tougher, less forgiving, more intense, and just better overall. I mean it was typical for a boss in Asian mmo's to go unbeaten for years. Not this couple months crap in Hammerknell.

    I'd love to see Trion release a raid that's just WAY too hard for even hammerknell people to beat. Just let it sit there so people would think they suck. Asian developers would troll like that a lot lol.
    Last edited by Sozu; 10-11-2011 at 12:48 AM.

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    No money. Grind is cheapest form of content. Thats where TW's Red Door step into play I believe. WHen they go to Asia they can offer companies that and players awesome game. When Rift goes to Asia, its going to blow out their ****ing eyes.

    MMORPG.com is a joke, you shouldnt really listen any of them. Good site to pick up some MMOs games though.
    Last edited by June; 10-11-2011 at 01:37 AM.

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    Shield of Telara C00lit's Avatar
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    I played Aion which is a great looking game with nice art but the grind when it launched was ridiculous, there were repeatable quests that you had to do over and over to level, these weren't daily repeatable s, they were repeatable full stop.

    The only other Asian mmo I've tried was FFXIV and that was just a disaster from the start although by all accounts it's meant to have improved a year on.

    It's no wonder they have a bad rep by the west.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sozu View Post
    I played FFXI for 5 years. I played Aion for a year. I enjoy many aspects of "asian mmo's". But other aspects are absolutely terrible. Asian mmo's are usually FULL of bots and spammers. There's probably 4 RMT in every asian mmo for every one in NA region mmo.

    That's the main difference I see. That and the actual grind is far worse. If you think Rift is grindy then you never really played an asian mmo lol. Even on the NA version of Aion developers admitted they "toned down" the grind because NA players couldnt handle it after playing WOW lol.
    I didn't much past 60 days in Aion. The one thing that frustrated me beyond belief were the bots and spammers. I'm a quester at heart and when I couldn't complete my quests due to the bots running around killling the quest mobs over and over again, it quickly became old. The spamming was some of the worst that I've seen in any game, ever. At times, my screen was filled with spam and more spam.

    I've ground in some other games to gain levels but in Aion, it just seemed to be tad bit boring for some reason. Plus, the game was so linear that it had little in replayability. Dunno, Aion didn't grab me for a variety of reasons. I didn't care for the art style (did the women have anything else than the hooker boots?) but that was a personal preference--killed any sense of immersion for me.

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    Champion faye007's Avatar
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    They are generally grind fests and full of spam. RFonline and Aion are the ones that come to mind immediately but i was involved in the earliest Aion betas in Japan and they loved the grind, it made me want to slit my wrists and i am glad they changed that more recently.
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    Ascendant Noaani's Avatar
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    It's not just the grind.

    Although the FF series and Aion are both exceptions to this, Asian MMO's are notorious for being extreme versions of pay-to-win games. Many of them have the best of everything as purchase-only, and the purchase price often makes your eyes water.
    Quote Originally Posted by Debase View Post
    If the only target audience for Rift is disenfranchised WoW players, its doomed imo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tro44 View Post
    the only complaint I have heard over the years about Asian MMO, have been the Grind. (which all MMO also have).
    That's entirely the point of MMORPG mentioning 'Asian' MMOs .. the stuff about bots, RMT etc. applies to all games, including Rift .. the term 'Asian MMO' is used synonymously for 'gridfest'.

    No one only playing more modern games like Rift, WOW, LoTRO or other 'western-based' MMOs has the faintest idea how God-awful the XP grind in 'Asian' MMOs is.

    Lineage for example is notorious for the months needed to level to cap. I've played FFXI since 2005 (still do) and for many years it took the average player literally months to level to 75, due to the fact XP was only obtained for killing mobs, not quests, killing an on-level mob got you 100 XP at level 1 and level 74, while the TNLs went up exponentially. In fact, FFXI at launch was even worse than it was when I first encountered it, initially the XP needed to reach the cap was hugely higher than it was by the time I started it.

    So saying an MMO to an 'Asian MMO' is the death-knell to the modern 'western' MMO gamer, generally only those who were prepared to tolerate the horror that was Lineage, or even the likes of EQ, will not instantly ignore it as something they don't want to go in a mile of.
    Last edited by Kerin; 10-11-2011 at 03:24 AM.

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    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noaani View Post
    It's not just the grind.

    Although the FF series and Aion are both exceptions to this, Asian MMO's are notorious for being extreme versions of pay-to-win games. Many of them have the best of everything as purchase-only, and the purchase price often makes your eyes water.
    This. I think Asian MMORPGs are defined more by their item shops and payment models than the grind. The grind is often negated by the xp potions and often pure experience you can buy, usually lottery style (i.e. you buy a box and open it and get gifts of random value and rarity). PvP against people who are all using consumables you can't compete against without buying the same ones. Major bosses and achieves tuned just so you can't do it without buying a couple potions to get you through the fight. Etc.

    Additionally, the games are more tied into RL stuff. Coupon codes and such. Buy fan books and get free stuff in game. Use your built up points from your local seven eleven on in-game gear. Play at this net cafe chain for a +100% xp buff. Play at this net cafe chain for a +10 to all stats while logged in. Etc.

    It's really pretty interesting, but at the same time horrifying for a lot of western gamers.
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    Rift Chaser Oblixt's Avatar
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    The mindless grind and the massive amounts of money required if you actually want to do anything worth doing in endgame.

    If you play a "free" to play game and want to enjoy endgame content, you'll spend far more on it then you will ever spend on a monthly sub game.

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    Plane Touched Naethir's Avatar
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    Also to the point where you have to exploit the games flaws, or whatever, like single running one floor of a dungeon whose mobs give like 20k experience per run. I played Grand Fantasia and I played the new MMO Eden Eternal. It takes forever unless you have unlimited play time and Exp potions, a Guild and.... patience.
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    Ascendant Hoss616's Avatar
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    mmorpg.com members hate every MMO pretty much

    ...everything is either a clone, too easy, too grindy, too..emm asian.
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    Ascendant tro44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noaani View Post
    It's not just the grind.

    Although the FF series and Aion are both exceptions to this, Asian MMO's are notorious for being extreme versions of pay-to-win games. Many of them have the best of everything as purchase-only, and the purchase price often makes your eyes water.
    question:
    how did their culture develop into this? curious. why do they have support for such a thing on a mass scale? is there a reason to this?

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    Champion Cassiel of harrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tro44 View Post
    question:
    how did their culture develop into this? curious. why do they have support for such a thing on a mass scale? is there a reason to this?
    One thing that I've noticed about the Asian culture is that they take any hobby to the extreme, more than any westerner that I've ever seen. They actually have gaming training camps in Korea. This would be my hypothesis for what appears to be major grinding to us, its just training to them.

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    Plane Walker Halman's Avatar
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    how did their culture develop into this? curious. why do they have support for such a thing on a mass scale? is there a reason to this?
    One thing that I've noticed about the Asian culture is that they take any hobby to the extreme, more than any westerner that I've ever seen. They actually have gaming training camps in Korea. This would be my hypothesis for what appears to be major grinding to us, its just training to them.
    Not only that. The asian mentality is quite different. They value tradition, hierarchy, strict logical systems. To most of the asians, time spent on a certain business, job, or, well, game, is the prime indicator of one's success with it. I'd say, their mentality is procedure based, while western mentality is process based. Which means western people find the enjoyment of the process much more important, compared to its result, than asian people. So for asian people it does not make such a difference wether they get diverse and entertaining content while leveling or just non-stop grind, unlike western gamers. Since a long and monotonous grind is both much more tolerable and more satisfactory to them, as it leaves the impression of a heavy investment, which generally makes one good at something.

    Maybe im not the greatest expert on the matter, but that's my impression from playing with orient ppl.

    As for how did their culture develop into these..well, modern western civilization ages about 3 thousand years since the times of ancient Greece/Rome. All of which have been marked by technological progress. The greek invented the basis of engineering aka levers, gears, torsion engines. Romans developed hydromechanics, architecture, metallurgy. That took like what, one thousand years? 800 years? Since then, it went upwards, gradually increasing the technological development of western civilization. In East, however, technology and progress have never been as important. Their development is extensive, not intensive. The technological level of their civilization experienced only minimal changes since antiquity to late middle ages to modern era (yes, many important and brilliant discoveries were made by Chinese, Japanese, Indian people..take powder for example. The problem is, however, those never made it to actual use). Basically in 19th century when major contacts with western civilizations begun, westerners found the easterners stuck in what we may call late middle ages. So yeah, it's not just mentality, but the general way of eastern civilisation, you'll find it in everything about those people.

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