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Thread: What does the term "mmo" mean to you today.....

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default What does the term "mmo" mean to you today.....

    .......with regards to what it ment 5 years ago.

    Community. That was the main aim of an mmo a few years back (imo), being part of something bigger than yourself and making an "identity" for yourself and watching your character grow in more way than stats/gear. Getting to that distant hill with a friend and getting killed by a random mob, grinding for crafting gear for 2 hours at a time and chat to random people as they "grinded" past

    I loved mmo's, so yea i "loved" them. I think ive lost the buzz, the excitement of logging on and running random groups and meeting new people from all around the world. Spending time gathering items together (guild/group) or even just seeing that guy from yesterday that you saw own FIVE (yea omg five ...) mobs and wonder how the hell he does it (then complain about him being a hacker later as he owns you in pvp lol)

    I dont see it in many mmo's anymore. Not since the older mmo's such as swg, EQ etc
    Rift as a game is amazing, and trion work very hard to give us this content, but the fault im finding is the community. No 1 helps anyone (rarely) and when i do find myself a nice group its always spoilt by the "QQ" member who has nothing better do to than to attempt to ruin other peoples days.

    In the end i feel the mmo's of today are being dragged down not by the games themselves no, but by the majority of childish players and self indulgent gamers. Im guilty at times of doing the same (we all are), but not to the extent that im seeing these days which borders on the line of self-destructive. My last mmo will be SWTOR regardless if it works or not (please dont knock on swtor this is not about that game but the communitys that in the end both games i fear will share), I can seem to find the fun in mmoing anymore, maybe its age or maybe its the community but im seeing more change in the attitude of the new generation of gamers that to me shows they have no self restraint, patience or the capability to treat others with respect etc.

    P.s/ on the up side there are some very friendly people/guilds and sometimes even members of the opposite faction that just enjoy a good chat/laugh and to see past the tunnel vision that alot of gamers have today i.e must get to endgame/capped gear and forget about the social and community driven side of gaming.

    There will be some that will try to disprove my OPINION, you are welcome to as long as you provide mature and valid reasons to why im wrong or even right. But in the end this may be the end for me
    Last edited by Hasamel; 10-06-2011 at 08:30 AM.

  2. #2
    Ascendant Skidrow Bro's Avatar
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    It's sad knowing that mmo is meaningless with this genre that has now turned into a console lobby based game
    Strive for Peace with acts of war
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  3. #3
    Rift Master
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    To me it should mean massively multiplayer, which means social, grouping, doing big things that you can't do alone, which does lead to a strong community since you're involved with other players.

    What it really means these days is nothing. It could be called massively single player online. Far too much dev effort is going towards catering to soloist who should be playing single player games instead of polluting MMORPGs.

    There are TONS of single players games. There are lots of single player cRPGs that play a lot like MMORPGs.

    There are only a handful of truly excellent MMORPGs worth playing. MMORPGs are the only types of games where you can experience the magic of crushing content with other people in an RPG type setting.

    The more MMORPGs cater to soloists, the lower the overall player quality gets - it's a trend that's been occuring for years. Players have transitioned from being generally giving and helpful to generaly being ME ME ME and selfish. I think the fast leveling and emphasis on solo activities help to turn players into selfish brats - you don't need to be social, behave, or "play nice" when you can do everything for yourself and easily solo to cap in no time.

    As this happens, people tend to hole up in their guilds, so your guild becomes your community rather than your server.

    It's annoying that companies keep going solo-centric and diluting the genre with people who should be playing single player games. I guess it bumps up sub numbers for dev epeen and helps pay the bills with more subs.

    I would never want a return to the "hard core" days of say, EQLive, but I do think things have gone a bit overboard with making these games too easy and too soloable (or I guess you could say, too easy to never do any group-oriented content). I also don't really consider a lot of something like ancient EQ gameplay to be hard core, a lot of it was just tedious and miserable, but there is a lot of positives that come out "forcing" grouping thru the whole game experience - community is stronger, player behavior is better (because if you don't behave, you don't get groups, you don't advance), players are better at playing (solo is ezmode, period, and leads to clueless players who never learn how to really play well).

  4. #4
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skidrow Bro View Post
    It's sad knowing that mmo is meaningless with this genre that has now turned into a console lobby based game
    Yea so basicly i feel like im playing mmo's today with a high % of the player base being........."that kid on COD that screams and sings and attempts to spoil everyone elses day because his mammy and daddy havent smacked him enough around the ear-hole"

    Those are not my words but kinda represent in a mouthfull what im getting at.

  5. #5
    Ascendant Skidrow Bro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasamel View Post
    Yea so basicly i feel like im playing mmo's today with a high % of the player base being........."that kid on COD that screams and sings and attempts to spoil everyone elses day because his mammy and daddy havent smacked him enough around the ear-hole"

    Those are not my words but kinda represent in a mouthfull what im getting at.
    Bingo!!! You are a winner.


    People will say "But the game's evolving" No it's not. The dev's are just getting greedy and instead of making a quality mmorpg they just slap **** together paste the tag "MMORPG" on it and call it a day.
    Last edited by Skidrow Bro; 10-06-2011 at 09:03 AM.
    Strive for Peace with acts of war
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  6. #6
    Telaran
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    I agree with you that strong negative experiences in MMORPGs are caused largely by the community and not the game design. Though I think the same is true for strong positive ones.

    Games need to be mindful of the types of community they foster, but sometimes they do not have a lot of control, especially when that community is imported/migrated from one game to the next.

    Also, like you said, as players age in MMO years and experience, they are increasingly inflicted with a sense of entitlement. Building a community is hard work and we've already done our time once. Every gamer at this point has taught and helped their fair share of players or invested time in building community and reputation only to see players disappear, guilds collapse, servers peter out with a fizzle. We think we've done our time and are entitled to step into a new game immediately at our previous hard earned positions; an attitude which only contributes to the community's deterioration.

    It's hard for one person to make a difference, but we have to try. That or move on. Sometimes some time away helps though, so if you don't find happiness in SWTOR, take a break and come back in a couple years. You could find the magic rekindled...
    Faeblight Defiant Eth Mage Quay

  7. #7
    Ascendant
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    It's just a game where you can anticipate that other characters in game are controlled by other players. Consequently you have to structure your gaming accordingly. Whilst mobs and items do eventually spawn again you have to work around the old first come first served. Can be frustrating at times, but still plenty to do often while waiting. I don't find other players that annoying though I do wonder sometimes why everyone is in such a rush. Anyway, everyone to there own. I just keep out of their way so they can get on with what ever they are doing and then carry on when it quietens down a bit.

  8. #8
    Telaran
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    It means, NOT a role playing game but rather massive amounts of people grinding for meaningless numbers and worthless purple gear.

  9. #9
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voqar View Post
    To me it should mean massively multiplayer, which means social, grouping, doing big things that you can't do alone, which does lead to a strong community since you're involved with other players.

    What it really means these days is nothing. It could be called massively single player online. Far too much dev effort is going towards catering to soloist who should be playing single player games instead of polluting MMORPGs.

    There are TONS of single players games. There are lots of single player cRPGs that play a lot like MMORPGs.

    There are only a handful of truly excellent MMORPGs worth playing. MMORPGs are the only types of games where you can experience the magic of crushing content with other people in an RPG type setting.

    The more MMORPGs cater to soloists, the lower the overall player quality gets - it's a trend that's been occuring for years. Players have transitioned from being generally giving and helpful to generaly being ME ME ME and selfish. I think the fast leveling and emphasis on solo activities help to turn players into selfish brats - you don't need to be social, behave, or "play nice" when you can do everything for yourself and easily solo to cap in no time.

    As this happens, people tend to hole up in their guilds, so your guild becomes your community rather than your server.

    It's annoying that companies keep going solo-centric and diluting the genre with people who should be playing single player games. I guess it bumps up sub numbers for dev epeen and helps pay the bills with more subs.

    I would never want a return to the "hard core" days of say, EQLive, but I do think things have gone a bit overboard with making these games too easy and too soloable (or I guess you could say, too easy to never do any group-oriented content). I also don't really consider a lot of something like ancient EQ gameplay to be hard core, a lot of it was just tedious and miserable, but there is a lot of positives that come out "forcing" grouping thru the whole game experience - community is stronger, player behavior is better (because if you don't behave, you don't get groups, you don't advance), players are better at playing (solo is ezmode, period, and leads to clueless players who never learn how to really play well).
    "As this happens, people tend to hole up in their guilds, so your guild becomes your community rather than your server"

    That is a perfect example of whats causing a social breakdown in mmo's today. As the genre of "mmo gaming" is becoming more mainstream the people like myself who have been around for awhile and made so many amazing friendships and long lasting bonds (a friend who lives in america is coming to visit in a few months as an example) but we are now finding ourselves left out when it comes to mmo's due to the increase in console gamers or single player gamers starting to jump on the mmo band wagon and making the "change game or else" posts.

    Social community driven mmo gamers are few and far between, and we are starting to die off due to the mainstream mmo gamer being defined not on as the social gamer/community driven, but as the hardcore gear hound or solo elitist.

    Basicly MMO gaming is now becoming "Massivly co-op online" due to the tunnel vision effect that seems to have taken the market by storm

  10. #10
    Rift Disciple goshon's Avatar
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    I believe part of the problem is that there is really little need to rely on your reputation anymore in order to have other players help you accomplish your in game goals. When you're able to get to level-cap, by jumping into dungeon and warfront queues, queues which can and usually do include players which are not part of your home server, you take a lot of the need to be courteous and pleasant away from the players. I'm not a naysayer on the LFD and Warfront Queues, actually I like them, and tend to use them frequently, but I do recognize the fact that there are no consequences to being rude and hostile to other players. That I do not find acceptable, there should be stiffer penalties for that kind of behavior.

    I liked the early-days of WoW for a few things, and no folks, I'm not looking to compare the experiences, because frankly that was 2004, this is 2011, things change, we've moved on. What I liked mostly was that almost every zone that you were leveling in, you had your content which you could complete as a solo player, and then to finish the quest-arcs you'd have to team with several other players to enter elite mob areas. That helped encourage players to treat others kinder, or at the least be socially acceptable. I truly believe that Trion intended that to be the point of the Public Groups for the rifts and invasions; however, the process of getting into, and getting out of those groups is completely impersonal, which is pretty much what everything in the game has become.

    Yes there are a lot of good and kind people that play this game, but there are a lot of people which play this game as if it were a Sing Sing Correctional Institute MMORPG, everything is a prison yard to them, where they have to be hostile, and up front, they have to make sure they ***** out other players in order to feel superior. The bickering and name calling, the rude behavior, the ninjaing of resources and gear, the lack of respect to call people by their name and only call them by role or by class, these all are testament to the impersonal "I don't give a sh!t about you" sentiment that many people despise about this genre.

    I'm quite sure that some poster will be here shortly to provide a snarky remark about how this is the internet and we're to expect this and ignore it; let me respond to that in advance, yes it has gotten to the point that this behavior is expected, but it should not be accepted. Just because its become the norm doesn't mean that it has to stay that way; game companies such as Trion need to man-up so to speak and start to deal with the harassment and poor behavior in a harsh manner, dealing punitive actions against accounts, and they have to do it without fear of upsetting people. While they've taken a laid-back approach to handling harassment in general, this game has become the same cesspit that many found to be in other games such as WoW, AoC, and SWG. Players constantly sniping at each other, flaming them, trolling, baiting, really folks this is how you want to exist in your hobby space? Constantly looking to deride other players because they don't meet your personal expectations?

    OP, I'm similar to you, SW:ToR will probably be my last hurrah when it comes to these games, I've been playing them for almost 11-years, for the most part I've enjoyed my time, I've enjoyed the friendships that I've made, as some of my friends I've met many years ago online, but I'm coming to the end of my patience for dealing with such hostile environments that these games have become. Rift is not even a year old and already the general feeling of many people (not all) is that the community is not very user friendly, so much so that many warfronts or dungeons consist of very silent chat channels due to people not wanting to interact, maybe in fear of having to get into an argument.

    I don't care if this behavior is expected in CoD and the other FPS games; those games allow people to play solo, and be Rambo if their heart is content to be that. An MMORPG used to be about building social networks of players to accomplish goals, now its about the soloist, and the me-first mindset, where being a bastard is not punished. Back in much older games, if you were such a pr!ck, you'd be watching on the sidelines as other people experience the game, as you were ostracized.
    FYI: Your game experience is not the same as everyone else's, especially mine, stop trying to make the game all about you, and think about the bigger picture.

  11. #11
    Shadowlander
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    MMO to me:
    An addictive game I'll play when I'm trying to not think about the crappy parts of real life and can't enjoy the good parts of real life.

    Various issues I see are, the loss of character identity in game. You see so many players running around with HUGE titles over their head, your brain just starts to filter it all. Previous games before titles and heck, even last names you say the name, maybe the guild. You mights say oh there goes Anarak, that guy is awesome, oh and there is Monalisssa, that crazy bleep. Now its oh look a see of people in tier 1 armor with blocks of text over their heads. Yes you can turn them off, but if its not default then your spam filter is already on and your blocking them all.

    To many channel that don't require you to actually do things with other people to make a reputation. Its not a chat room, go out and play, get out of the city and do something.

    Punitive effect for helping someone, see someone fighting and think they need help? You might screw up their exp! Or they might just get poed because they don't want help, or accidentally tag one of their mobs and cause them harm. So eventually after enough games of being punished for helping you stop, weather that game is punitive or not, your already conditioned to ignore.

    In game rewards build behavior. If you want players to play together, stop making content that expires once your level X. Come up with a system where your "level" means you might have more powers, but that you can still do the same quest that a lower level can for a reward. Some games have this in limited form, monsters that deal damage/take damage based on your level, and split the reward to those involved, based on their contribution/level. No reason other than completionist for me to go help when freemarch is overrun with an invasion.

    These games are addictive, their little progress bars and achievements hook people like crack. Don't believe me? Look at how the FPS shooter market has gone to the progress bar/achievement model over the previous find a better gun on the map and use it well till someone pries it from your hands model.

    Rarely do people play because its fun anymore, mostly because humans want to see progress, and MMO's provide lots of progress bars to trick your brain into thinking you just did something awesome.

  12. #12
    Prophet of Telara Neo Omni's Avatar
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    "MMO..."

    Isnt that the sound cows make?
    Last edited by Neo Omni; 10-06-2011 at 10:23 AM.


  13. #13
    Shield of Telara Spor's Avatar
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    MMO for me meant AD&D on a grand scale, not just 6 friends in a back room drinking beers, smoking cigs & rollin dice.

    It was awesome, it was amazin, it was not very well known or liked by the arcade kiddies... (Yes, we were nerds!).

    Then it came, from a RTS to MMO in one painful morph, soon the darkness and demons followed, the 12yo screaming, the deathly cries of "Me before all others, I want it all & all now!", then the wars all ended, no longer was there 3 sides fighting for to survive, soon it was personal, player turning against player, sometimes 20 at a time, the rallying shouts for balance and everything to be made equal, alas we all failed, the demon spawn still runs the show and we? Well we are meer, nerfed puppets...

    Someday the light may return, someday!

    ...
    No trials... No tricks... No traps... No EU-RP server? NO THANKS!

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