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Thread: The Death of a Genre

  1. #1
    Plane Touched Defiant's Avatar
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    Default The Death of a Genre

    The grit of an early morning contested raid kill, the feeling of accomplishment when you finally obtain that item you have been seeking, the sense of danger and challenging excitement you face when entering a new zone. These feelings started to slowly fade from games (at least for me) soon after Planes of Power in EQ1. Vanguard did something to revitalize this seemingly indescribable feeling. Perhaps it was the vastness of the world that reminded some of us of the past, or the fact that so much of the game was left unfinished… regardless there was a certain mystical feeling while playing the game. There was an aspect of the unknown and the undiscovered.

    These experiences have since been completely removed from MMOs. I still to this day can trek through EQ1 zones in my head, or tell you the step by step process of obtaining the “Jagged Blade of War” (warrior 1.0 epic) or even the Ranger Epic ,but for the life of me could not recall a single detailed map of a Rift zone. We plow through the world, reach level 50, and then never return to these places again. We end up literally hopping around in sanctum/meridian, not because we are inclined to do so, but rather because there is nothing else to do. I remember when the idea of a day off from work would be filled with the joy of a whole day of playing “my game”. At this point, the only thing to look forward to is raiding.

    The sense of accomplishment after defeating a raid encounter revitalizes (at least for a moment) what is missing in games nowadays. However, to see the rate at which many of these raid encounters are nerfed undermines the very time and effort many of us place into them. The last straw for me was King Molinar. Here is a mob that we spent weeks on, poured our hearts into, sacrificed hours upon hours of sleep, only to see the fight nerfed the day after we killed it. It was not changed because it was broken, nor was it changed because it was impossible. It was changed because it was “too hard” for most players. Sure enough, a day after we killed King it was nerfed and a slew of raiding guilds came flooding in behind us to state “man that was a joke”. I can only imagine what <Maximation> is going to feel like when 10 guilds swoop in behind them to kill nerfed Akylios a week after their first kill.

    Lastly, my decision is based in the simple fact that Rift is no longer a challenge to me. My character is macro’ed to a few buttons that anyone could simply mash in sequence. The GCD is so long that an elderly woman could keep pace if she was so inclined. There is no reason for my character to step outside of Sanctum and the motivation to defeat new raid content that will be subsequently nerfed the week after I defeat it has dwindled.

    I understand the “necessary evil” that guides many of the choices of developers in today’s MMO market. Without a game that will attract the masses there is no revenue to produce new content or make a profit. However, by following the current business model the most dedicated of players have been disenfranchised. Perhaps “today’s new gamer” would not be so eager to hop from game to game if they were afforded the opportunity to truly invest in their characters. There are no longer “quests”, only “ques”, simply stated games lack depth - and with this, at least for now, the genre has died.

    PS: No, you can't have my stuff.
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  2. #2
    Rift Disciple
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defiant View Post
    PS: No, you can't have my stuff.

    Can I have some of your stuff?

  3. #3
    Plane Touched
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    Honestly dude, you're just getting older.

    The games didn't change. You did.

  4. #4
    General of Telara
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    Having come from the early days of EQ myself I completely understand your point. I personally dont think the genre is dead, but its certainly on life support. I keep hearing how there will never be another EQ type game made because people dont want to invest that much time in any game, but I disagree. I know a lot of people who would jump at the chance. Call it a niche game, call it old timers looking through rose colored glasses, call it nostalgia. I dont care, i had fun playing that game dammit until they changed everything about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by June View Post
    Many have quitted, they are lost almost half of the servers they started. I hop in next MMO for sure. Rift is awesome game but PVP is just crap.
    Lol really now?

  5. #5
    General of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homebrew View Post
    Honestly dude, you're just getting older.

    The games didn't change. You did.
    Respectfully, your wrong. They have changed a lot and I'm not talking about graphics.
    Quote Originally Posted by June View Post
    Many have quitted, they are lost almost half of the servers they started. I hop in next MMO for sure. Rift is awesome game but PVP is just crap.
    Lol really now?

  6. #6
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    Well while I agree they are dumbing down games, it is the world we live in. Trion wants to make cash, they make more making the majority happy instead of the minority. This is going to be in any new game. Attention spans have gotten a lot shorter over the years.
    Last edited by Lucky Assassian; 09-20-2011 at 06:09 AM.
    Sorry, the worst Assassian ever to play any game anywhere.

  7. #7
    Ascendant Laughingstock's Avatar
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    I agree with many sentiments especially the nostalgia but I will say sometimes we do tend to give older things less scrutiny as we move forward. Everything wasn't peachy and many things made us want to ragequit in the old days to some extent. But overall it was fun.

    That said, you are absolutely right as far as how games are done in a certain way. While I disagree about the effect a nerfed dungeon would/should have on a guild that beat that content in it's difficulty mode finding out that Tom, Richard and Harry beat it on nerfed mode shouldn't make one lick of difference to them. In fact, I used to revel in doing things on the difficulty mode in FFXI like the Sea airship battle.. failing time and time and time again until we finally won and then two weeks later it was nerfed because most linkshells couldn't get past the difficulty and into the new zone ( you had to beat the fight in order to get access to the new zone). I took that as a mark of personal pride we did it on "Hard" mode, but I don't begrudge anyone who did it after on "Easy".

    The one problem I think is that you are playing a game called RIFT and complaining about the raid difficulties and ease. I find that pretty ironic and funny. When people quit RIFT and months later when people ask them about it, rifts will be an afterthought in the description and the focus will be on Hammerknell, Greenscale and the like which will be sad.

    RIFT had a chance to advance the genre instead it took a step backwards. I feel your angst but for a different reason. You want the game to be challenging instead of easy mode. I want the game to be what it was touted as.

    This is what Trion will have to face in the future as it slowly turns into every other mmo out of the market.

  8. #8
    Plane Touched Defiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homebrew View Post
    Honestly dude, you're just getting older.
    There may be some truth in that. However, I must respectfully disagree with you, games have most certainly changed.
    ::: HAMMERKNELL 10/11 :::
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    Rift Chaser Sadare's Avatar
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    EQ1 was the game that got me into the genre of fantasy MMOs, i do miss it ( my brother still has an active sub, after all these years) But maybe one day new MMOs will recapture that feeling of a big game world and the feeling of finding new thigns new places and working on quests like the EQ way.

    Was good to explore all tha world, take boat journeys, and then battle all the hill giants , finding the nexus and every one gathering for buffs from them that where kind enough to buff.

    The months i spent hunting in South Karana for Quillmane to obtain my cloak for my mage epic, did eventually get it as well ,but needed aranger to track the beast or if ever was lucky to stumble upon her then it was also rare drop for the darn thign as well rare mob with rare drop !!


    Nostalgia moment
    Last edited by Sadare; 09-20-2011 at 06:13 AM.



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  10. #10
    Plane Touched
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    I wasn't really discrediting the OP and I realize that yeah, games have changed.

    I'm just pointing out that as we age we don't get the same experience we used to and often blame it on the game. When I was a kid I had no worries or responsibilities. At least, nothing that I cared that much about.

    Now I have insomnia. I drink too much. A full time job and relationships. Obligations all over the place. Bills to pay. A car. A home. You get the idea.

    It's tough to find immersion in anything when I'm so often distracted by the real world, and that's not the game's fault.

    In summation; while I totally agree that games have changed, I think people change a lot more.

  11. #11
    Ascendant Mayi's Avatar
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    In regards to Mollinar, you did kill it a day before there were patch notes saying the boss was going to be nerfed and knew what you were getting into.

    About EQ, yea think have definitely changed. The hardcore mentality has been sort of lost, and I think it's moreso about WoW. WoW dumbed down content so much that people expect easy raiding. In a world where people get burned out raiding 20 hours a week you have to wonder how far these same people would make it in EQ - and they're supposedly hardcore raiders. 20 hours of raiding a week in the old days meant a casual raiding guild.

    Another thing that I think is hurting is all the guides and streams. In EQ and EQ2 no one released strats for anything and you had to figure it out yourselves. EQ2 was even out at the same time as WoW and in all the guilds I've been in we had way lower turnover then in Rift. Being used to stable rosters for ~3 years or so and now going to Rift now, where people complain when things aren't cleared in 2 weeks, people feel burnt out at 20 hours a week, etc.. is just ridiculous. So either it's WoW that's the problem or just a generational thing where young people want stuff too easy.

    I don't have an answer, but so far Rift is holding my attention and I like it. I do expect newer MMOs to be worse though, and have even easier content. It's the direction the market is moving.
    Last edited by Mayi; 09-20-2011 at 06:29 AM.

  12. #12
    Ascendant Skidrow Bro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post
    In regards to Mollinar, you did kill it a day before there were patch notes saying the boss was going to be nerfed and knew what you were getting into.

    About EQ, yea think have definitely changed. The hardcore mentality has been sort of lost, and I think it's moreso about WoW. WoW dumbed down content so much that people expect easy raiding. In a world where people get burned out raiding 20 hours a week you have to wonder how far these same people would make it in EQ - and they're supposedly hardcore raiders.

    Another thing that I think is hurting is all the guides and streams. In EQ and EQ2 no one released strats for anything and you had to figure it out yourselves. EQ2 was even out at the same time as WoW and in all the guilds I've been in we had way lower turnover then in Rift. Being used to stable rosters for ~3 years or so and now going to Rift now, where people complain when things aren't cleared in 2 weeks, people feel burnt out at 20 hours a week, etc.. is just ridiculous. So either it's WoW that's the problem or just a generational thing where young people want stuff too easy.

    I don't have an answer, but so far Rift is holding my attention and I like it. I do expect newer MMOs to be worse though, and have even easier content. It's the direction the market is moving.
    It was actiblizzards instant lobby arcade that's put a huge dent into this genre. People don't want to explore, they want diablo style gameplay
    Strive for Peace with acts of war
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  13. #13
    Ascendant mo0trix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homebrew View Post
    Honestly dude, you're just getting older.

    The games didn't change. You did.
    You couldn't be more wrong.

    Rather than go into my personal experience of why I agree with the OP and everything they say... I'll just leave it at that. Great post, right on the money.

    Trion tried hard (and continue to try hard) but there is something missing in Rift... i'm sure a lot of players feel it and can't put their finger on it.

  14. #14
    Champion RangerRob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homebrew View Post
    Honestly dude, you're just getting older.

    The games didn't change. You did.
    Sorry but as others have pointed out, you couldn't be more wrong. I completely agree with the OP, I'm somebody who loves MMOs but is extremely disenfranchised with the way MMOs are today. I long for an MMO which doesn't try to compete with WoW for the console kids and instead focuses on bringing back the millions of disenfranchised long-term MMO players.

    What game developers, and players, don't seem to understand is you don't need a WoW killer, Blizzard are doing that for themselves. You don't need to attract all the console kids to make substantial profit, there is an absolutely massive catchment of gamers who simply have nothing to play right now and are "making do" with the best of the rest.
    Last edited by RangerRob; 09-20-2011 at 06:35 AM.

  15. #15
    Ascendant Laughingstock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayi View Post
    In regards to Mollinar, you did kill it a day before there were patch notes saying the boss was going to be nerfed and knew what you were getting into.
    I think that's the point he's making. He knew full well what he was "getting into".

    He's not upset that his guild beat King on "hard mode". He's actually happy about the fact that they did.

    What he's unhappy about is that his guild did it and now that it's nerfed, other guilds will walk in on "easy" mode, kill the boss and think they "accomplished" something worthy of what his guild did. You know, kind of like a veteran of the Faulklands War trying to equate his battle experience with a veteran of the Battle of Britian, or a veteran of Grenada or Panama Canal comparing their combat experience with a veteran of Afghanistan or Iraq.

    That kind of thing.. exclusivity. I think he should just do "his guild" and not worry about what other do/think, but that's his argument.
    Last edited by Laughingstock; 09-20-2011 at 06:35 AM.

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