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Thread: Motorcyclist Dies On Ride Protesting Helmet Law In New York

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    Ascendant Laughingstock's Avatar
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    Last edited by Laughingstock; 07-03-2011 at 07:30 PM.

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    Sword of Telara Palvy's Avatar
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    I'm of mixed opinion on this. Helmets save lives. So do seatbelts. But if people want to take chances with their lives, I'm all for letting them.

    I'm alive today because I wear a helmet when I ride.

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    Prophet of Telara Friar Tuck's Avatar
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    I am not so much in favour of 'if they want to let them', because there is a public cost to this sort of behaviour. Particular in countries like Australia which have universal health care.

    Without a helmet, accidents where ppl might walk away with concussion or minor injuries have the potential to instead cause serious head injuries that will require extended time in ICU or end up with someone being permanently disabled and needing hostel or nursing home type care. (I am thinking particularly of a friend who went over the handlebars of her bike when a small dog ran in front of her on the cyclepath, stopping the bike in its tracks - her helmet was shattered but she was unharmed except for some concussion. Without a helmet, she would have been in very bad shape, possibly permanently or killed).

    If there is something easily preventable by such a small thing as wearing a helmet, I would rather ppl put up with the inconvenience and curtailment of their individual freedom and have the money that would otherwise be spent on preventable things be channelled into other healthcare needs.
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    General of Telara Doktor_Ljubavi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friar Tuck View Post
    I am not so much in favour of 'if they want to let them', because there is a public cost to this sort of behaviour. Particular in countries like Australia which have universal health care.

    Without a helmet, accidents where ppl might walk away with concussion or minor injuries have the potential to instead cause serious head injuries that will require extended time in ICU or end up with someone being permanently disabled and needing hostel or nursing home type care. (I am thinking particularly of a friend who went over the handlebars of her bike when a small dog ran in front of her on the cyclepath, stopping the bike in its tracks - her helmet was shattered but she was unharmed except for some concussion. Without a helmet, she would have been in very bad shape, possibly permanently or killed).

    If there is something easily preventable by such a small thing as wearing a helmet, I would rather ppl put up with the inconvenience and curtailment of their individual freedom and have the money that would otherwise be spent on preventable things be channelled into other healthcare needs.
    We don't have universal healthcare in America. If they don't have insurance, they'd die anyways from being so far in debt.
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    Shadowlander Falkus's Avatar
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    Rich Aemry
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor_Ljubavi View Post
    We don't have universal healthcare in America. If they don't have insurance, they'd die anyways from being so far in debt.
    No, we get stuck with the bill as taxpayers one way or another. If they don't have insurance and they can't pay we get stuck with it either by funding the county hospital or through the writeoff as a loss on the taxes of the private hospital. We get to pay for it.

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    Rich Aemry
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palvy View Post
    I'm of mixed opinion on this. Helmets save lives. So do seatbelts. But if people want to take chances with their lives, I'm all for letting them.

    I'm alive today because I wear a helmet when I ride.
    I'm not for letting people be idiots. Their stupidity makes my car and bike insurance both go up.

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    Shadowlander Bigyin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Aemry View Post
    I'm not for letting people be idiots. Their stupidity makes my car and bike insurance both go up.
    This.

    Oh, and my favourite quote of all time is applicable: "If only stupidity was painfull"

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    Ascendant Chomag's Avatar
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    Boycott this law! We need more organ donors!

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    Prophet of Telara Radak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chomag View Post
    Boycott this law! We need more organ donors!
    This is what I was thinking.
    People that die in trash accidents make perfect organ donors as the organs are most of the time in a perfect state. Of course they will have to be registered organ donors.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palvy View Post
    I'm of mixed opinion on this. Helmets save lives. So do seatbelts. But if people want to take chances with their lives, I'm all for letting them.
    Not when there's a real money cost to society for letting idiots do what they like.

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    Sword of Telara Palvy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerin View Post
    Not when there's a real money cost to society for letting idiots do what they like.
    Funerals, in many cases, are less expensive than hospital care.

    Without a helmet, a minor accident can be fatal. With a helmet, a serious accident can be survivable. The costs add up either way.

    The night I was run off the road and went head first off my motorcycle, I lived because of a helmet. But I had hospital costs, which were paid through a combination of insurance, government assistance, and personal funds.

    I'm not sure that any studies have been done which show the actual cost of one vs. the other. It seems rather callous to be comparing the cost of dying to that of hospital care when trying to determine the true monetary cost of allowing people to decide whether to wear helmets or not.

    And, also, I'm completely against shifting costs from the individual to "society." People are a lot more responsible with their own money than with "the government's" money.
    Last edited by Palvy; 07-04-2011 at 05:08 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Palvy View Post
    Funerals, in many cases, are less expensive than hospital care.
    Probably true, however the cost of intensive care and therapy for those not fortunate enough to die is not.

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    Ascendant Sinndel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friar Tuck View Post
    I am not so much in favour of 'if they want to let them', because there is a public cost to this sort of behaviour. Particular in countries like Australia which have universal health care.

    Without a helmet, accidents where ppl might walk away with concussion or minor injuries have the potential to instead cause serious head injuries that will require extended time in ICU or end up with someone being permanently disabled and needing hostel or nursing home type care. (I am thinking particularly of a friend who went over the handlebars of her bike when a small dog ran in front of her on the cyclepath, stopping the bike in its tracks - her helmet was shattered but she was unharmed except for some concussion. Without a helmet, she would have been in very bad shape, possibly permanently or killed).

    If there is something easily preventable by such a small thing as wearing a helmet, I would rather ppl put up with the inconvenience and curtailment of their individual freedom and have the money that would otherwise be spent on preventable things be channelled into other healthcare needs.
    People get hit by cars crossing the street, and get serious illnesses from their co-workers. Maybe we should have laws that force people to wear kevlar body armor and gas masks or they can't leave their houses? Or y'know what? People aren't safe in their own houses either. They might get robbed by a home invader. It should be a law to have no windows or doors for intruders to get in through. Stupid laws are stupid. Should be the person's choice. That said I always wear a seatbelt and I don't even ride motorcycles, I just don't think there should be laws for this sort of thing.

    One other thing. I luled at the irony in the OP. Does that make me a bad person? D: I feel like a bad person.
    Last edited by Sinndel; 07-04-2011 at 05:22 AM.
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    Sword of Telara Palvy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinndel View Post
    People get hit by cars crossing the street, and get serious illnesses from their co-workers. Maybe we should have laws that force people to wear kevlar body armor and gas masks or they can't leave their houses? Or y'know what? People aren't safe in their own houses either. They might get robbed by a home invader. It should be a law to have no windows or doors for intruders to get in through. Stupid laws are stupid. Should be the person's choice. That said I always wear a seatbelt and I don't even ride motorcycles, I just don't think there should be laws for this sort of thing.

    One other thing. I luled at the irony in the OP. Does that make me a bad person? D: I feel like a bad person.
    That's so true. I broke my arm by falling while crossing the street. Therefore, there should be a law against crossing the street...

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