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Thread: WoW Cataclysm vs. RIFT: its about people

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    Rift Master blackweb's Avatar
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    Default WoW Cataclysm vs. RIFT: its about people

    Yes, I am disgusted with the cataclysm paladin, except for prot pve. I would rather have my teeth drilled than play holy or ret in the arena, especially holy. But thats not the only reason I quit wow. I quit wow because at least on my server, Maelstrom, the game is dying. How do I know that? I am an experienced guild leader. I can build a powerful, successful guild from nothinig on any viable server in any viable game.

    The key to a successful mmorpg and to building a successful guild is that you consistently gain more players than you lose. There is always attrition in any guild and in any game. Myself and a friend had formed a new guild at cata release and we were recruiting hard. We recruited enough players to raid both 10 and 20 man content. We did all the pve content, we gared up our characters for raids. We geared up for pve and pvp, for me two paladins, one holy, the other prot/ret. Yes, we had enough people in our guild to raid. Unfortunately, after most of them reached 85, did a few heroic dungeons, they just stopped logging on. No explanation, no annoucement, they just quit the game. These were experienced players. So, we had to join pug raids or form our own. Constant nerfs and buffs to classes and specs in pvp made it hard to get a solid, consistent pvp group going for arenas or rated bgs. People were constantly rerolling for the FotM. Many just quit in frustration.

    When I realized that the cata paladin was just not up to the challenge as far as I was concerned, I had two choices, reroll or quit. I decided to play my warlock and shaman, both fun classes and a lot more fun than the paladin. So, I was playing characters of different levels including a 20s warrior. It is usually pretty easy to recruit in lower level zones, but this time there was a problem. All of the low level zones were deserted, I mean not just for a day or two but for 2 or 3 weeks. For the first time since 2004, there were no new people coming to the game, at least on our server. To make matters worse, people were quitting the game on a daily or weekly basis.

    I have seen servers and games die. I know when the writing is on the wall. When I heard that Scott Hartsman was the lead dev of RIFT, that settled it. I have the highest regard for SH as a game developer. I got my guild together, told them that we were going to give RIFT a try. So, we stared a new guild of the same name in RIFT and hung out our recruriting banner. Oh my did we get a strong response! Within days we had more than 100 members. There is a steady stream of new players coming to RIFT, about half of them from WoW. We had 36 members online at our last RIFT guild meeting. We start T2 content in RIFT at the end of the month. This is on a low pop server in rift.

    I admit that I was having fun playing my warlock and my shaman. My warrior too. I could see that when blizzard wanted to build a fun, interactive, powerful class they could. Unfortunately, when I would do a /who in almost any zone but stormwind or a level 80-85 zone, there was no one there, for days on end. There were still a lot of 85s standing around in stormwind and doing end game content but the supply of new players coming to the server had completely dried up. Not only do you need great gameplay and content in an MMORPG, you need people.

    This is my experience in RIFT vs WoW since the beginning of 2011. Yours may vary. The fundamental difference imho between the games is that wow is losing more players than it is gaining and RIFT is gaining more than it is losing. I will leave it to all of you to figure out why.

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    Plane Walker darksinx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackweb View Post
    Yes, I am disgusted with the cataclysm paladin, except for prot pve. I would rather have my teeth drilled than play holy or ret in the arena, especially holy. But thats not the only reason I quit wow. I quit wow because at least on my server, Maelstrom, the game is dying. How do I know that? I am an experienced guild leader. I can build a powerful, successful guild from nothinig on any viable server in any viable game.

    The key to a successful mmorpg and to building a successful guild is that you consistently gain more players than you lose. There is always attrition in any guild and in any game. Myself and a friend had formed a new guild at cata release and we were recruiting hard. We recruited enough players to raid both 10 and 20 man content. We did all the pve content, we gared up our characters for raids. We geared up for pve and pvp, for me two paladins, one holy, the other prot/ret. Yes, we had enough people in our guild to raid. Unfortunately, after most of them reached 85, did a few heroic dungeons, they just stopped logging on. No explanation, no annoucement, they just quit the game. These were experienced players. So, we had to join pug raids or form our own. Constant nerfs and buffs to classes and specs in pvp made it hard to get a solid, consistent pvp group going for arenas or rated bgs. People were constantly rerolling for the FotM. Many just quit in frustration.

    When I realized that the cata paladin was just not up to the challenge as far as I was concerned, I had two choices, reroll or quit. I decided to play my warlock and shaman, both fun classes and a lot more fun than the paladin. So, I was playing characters of different levels including a 20s warrior. It is usually pretty easy to recruit in lower level zones, but this time there was a problem. All of the low level zones were deserted, I mean not just for a day or two but for 2 or 3 weeks. For the first time since 2004, there were no new people coming to the game, at least on our server. To make matters worse, people were quitting the game on a daily or weekly basis.

    I have seen servers and games die. I know when the writing is on the wall. When I heard that Scott Hartsman was the lead dev of RIFT, that settled it. I have the highest regard for SH as a game developer. I got my guild together, told them that we were going to give RIFT a try. So, we stared a new guild of the same name in RIFT and hung out our recruriting banner. Oh my did we get a strong response! Within days we had more than 100 members. There is a steady stream of new players coming to RIFT, about half of them from WoW. We had 36 members online at our last RIFT guild meeting. We start T2 content in RIFT at the end of the month. This is on a low pop server in rift.

    I admit that I was having fun playing my warlock and my shaman. My warrior too. I could see that when blizzard wanted to build a fun, interactive, powerful class they could. Unfortunately, when I would do a /who in almost any zone but stormwind or a level 80-85 zone, there was no one there, for days on end. There were still a lot of 85s standing around in stormwind and doing end game content but the supply of new players coming to the server had completely dried up. Not only do you need great gameplay and content in an MMORPG, you need people.

    This is my experience in RIFT vs WoW since the beginning of 2011. Yours may vary. The fundamental difference imho between the games is that wow is losing more players than it is gaining and RIFT is gaining more than it is losing. I will leave it to all of you to figure out why.
    rift is losing alot too much more so then when wow was new and fresh if u compare rift to wow say 6 months into release i bet rift is losing triple the amount wow did
    Criticism and Lack of self confidence: The difference between a confident person and an inferior person is the way of thinking, while the first tends to compliment his actions the second keeps putting himself down. The mind of the person lacking self confidence is usually full of negative messages and thatís why the excess negative messages travels to the other people around him in the form of criticism. The conclusion is, The overly critical person usually lacks self confidence

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    Rift Master blackweb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darksinx View Post
    rift is losing alot too much more so then when wow was new and fresh if u compare rift to wow say 6 months into release i bet rift is losing triple the amount wow did
    I totally disagree with this statment and I will explain why. No, RIFT is not losing players. MMO gamers have changed fundamentally since the release of EQ2 and WoW. Most MMO gamers now are older, more experienced and more mature. They have jobs, lives and families. They cant stay online all the time. They log on for a while each day when they have time, usually during prime time (7-10 pm). They sometimes log on at strange times of the day, any time they can get a few WFs or quests in. They are often absent from the game for several days at a time. These factors create frequent, sometimes extreme fluctuations in online populations on servers. You can log on in the middle of the day and there is no one there in trade chat in sanctum or meridian. You can even log on at 6 pm and there will be very few people online. However, they always come back, often with a vengeance.

    The days of overcrowded servers 24/7 and a steady stream of young gamers with unlimited time to play the game are over. Most MMO gamers are older, more experienced and more discerning. If they like a game, they bring their friends or their whole family with them. This is why RIFT's strategy of appealing to more experienced gamers is a stroke of genius. Trion is appealing to the right market at the right time. How do I know this? I lead a guild full of exactly the kind of players that RIFT is designed to appeal to.

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    Isz
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    Quote Originally Posted by darksinx View Post
    rift is losing alot too much more so then when wow was new and fresh if u compare rift to wow say 6 months into release i bet rift is losing triple the amount wow did
    You have no basis for the misinformation you spew.

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    Rift Master blackweb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isz View Post
    You have no basis for the misinformation you spew.
    It is easy to log on, be online a few hours, note that the zone you are in or even the server are deserted and come to the erroneous conclusion that the game is dead or dying when all you are really seeing is a temporary fluctuation in population on that server. Then of course they come to the forums and scream that the game is dying and that trion needs to begin server mergers immediately.

    If they go back to the same server and log on at 10 or 11 pm, they would notice that it is slam packed with people. I have noticed that RIFT seems to attract a large late-night crowd.
    Last edited by blackweb; 07-01-2011 at 11:13 AM.

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    Ascendant xtorma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackweb View Post
    It is easy to log on, be online a few hours, note that the zone you are in or even the server are deserted and come to the erroneous conclusion that the game is dead or dying when all you are really seeing is a temporary fluctuation in population on that server. Then of course they come to the forums and scream that the game is dying and that trion needs to begin server mergers immediately.

    Of course, if they go back to the server and log on at 10 or 11 pm, they would notice that it is slam packed with people. I have noticed that RIFT seems to attract a large late-night crowd.
    wouldn't this also hold true for what you posted about wow?
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    Ascendant TheHangman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darksinx View Post
    rift is losing alot too much more so then when wow was new and fresh if u compare rift to wow say 6 months into release i bet rift is losing triple the amount wow did
    You do realize that Trion has said recently that they are still growing, even taking into account people who have unsubscribed, right?

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    Ascendant xtorma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheHangman View Post
    You do realize that Trion has said recently that they are still growing, even taking into account people who have unsubscribed, right?
    Yup, the devs have said it themselves. Upward trend.
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    Rift Master blackweb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xtorma View Post
    wouldn't this also hold true for what you posted about wow?
    The fundamental difference between my wow server and rift as I stated is that if you go to the starter zone in RIFT, in my case Silverwood, there are always a significant number of people (10, 20 or more) there during prime time. However, on my wow server, the starting zones were deserted for weeks during prime time, including Elwynn. I checked all of the starting zones several times on the alliance side. They were starkly empty. Even in Elwynn there would be less than 5 or 10 people online leveling new characters. A server and the guilds on that server cannot survive with without new blood constantly cominig to the game.

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    Telaran Chamorro's Avatar
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    Your experiences are similar to mine... I quit WOW 18 months before Cata came out, out of boredom caused by not having the time to RAID. The guild I was in was in a state of decline, it was a guild that had been on the server from the start of the game. With Cata I decided to give it another go, of the people that left with me only about half came back for Cata, I raised 3 characters to 85... a priest, rogue and hunter.

    At 85 you hit the wall of raid or arena... I hate with a passion the "design" of their arena system and had no time to raid. I would log in to do the daily cooking or fishing quests... over and over on 3 characters. Then my eyes started to bleed. Without a word this time I left, the first time I left, prior to Cata I said goodbye to the guild and all that, but this time I just walked. The game had reached the point of utter pointlessness.

    I hate the arena, no time to raid, phasing makes it impossible to quest with friends, heroic dungeons were too hard to pug and too much trouble any way considering the worthless gear they dropped, the low level zones were completely empty, battlegrounds were pointless at 85, as was the one good thing they ever did PVP wise... Wintergrasp.

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    Rift Master blackweb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chamorro View Post
    Your experiences are similar to mine... I quit WOW 18 months before Cata came out, out of boredom caused by not having the time to RAID. The guild I was in was in a state of decline, it was a guild that had been on the server from the start of the game. With Cata I decided to give it another go, of the people that left with me only about half came back for Cata, I raised 3 characters to 85... a priest, rogue and hunter.

    At 85 you hit the wall of raid or arena... I hate with a passion the "design" of their arena system and had no time to raid. I would log in to do the daily cooking or fishing quests... over and over on 3 characters. Then my eyes started to bleed. Without a word this time I left, the first time I left, prior to Cata I said goodbye to the guild and all that, but this time I just walked. The game had reached the point of utter pointlessness.

    I hate the arena, no time to raid, phasing makes it impossible to quest with friends, heroic dungeons were too hard to pug and too much trouble any way considering the worthless gear they dropped, the low level zones were completely empty, battlegrounds were pointless at 85, as was the one good thing they ever did PVP wise... Wintergrasp.
    The wow classes were never created with small group, instanced death-match pvp in mind, not arena. Rock-paper-scissors works great in 10-20 man respawn pvp, not arena. Blizzard has alienated a lot of players with class homogenization in the name of esport.

    I for one do not play RIFT hoping one day to make my fortune in RIFT eSport.

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    Ascendant Kevyne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackweb View Post
    Yes, I am disgusted with the cataclysm paladin, except for prot pve. I would rather have my teeth drilled than play holy or ret in the arena, especially holy.
    Arena? Bah.

    But critted yesterday for 74k, so being a Holy paladin isn't too bad. Outhealing them all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xtorma View Post
    Yup, the devs have said it themselves. Upward trend.
    of subscribers... which isn't actually the same as an increase in effective population (the people logged on at any given time)
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    Ascendant Jaya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chamorro View Post
    heroic dungeons were too hard to pug
    Yes, heroics were hard.
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    Isz
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaya View Post
    of subscribers... which isn't actually the same as an increase in effective population (the people logged on at any given time)
    It is the same as that, only its a ratio and not a direct relationship.

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