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Thread: Player retention is a real problem with this game

  1. #1
    Shield of Telara
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    Default Player retention is a real problem with this game

    I have played other MMO's like City of Heroes, WoW, Guild Wars, Lineage 2, 9 Dragons, Hellgate London, etc.. I have participated in most of the forums of those games. I have not seen as many I quit post (mine included) in those above mentioned games as I have here in this game. Some have not bothered paying for a sub after the first month.

    Heck not only the game itself has the problem of retaining subs. But their customer service has it's share of the blame of holding subs.

    Don't get me wrong, this is not a gloom and doom post. Do I think that this game will survive, yes but how many players will still be here when some of the new games launch. Like how many will be playing when Guild Wars 2 hits, or when SWTOR, how many players will it pull away.

    If the game has around 240,000 active subs right now, how many players will leave for those games. Let's say after those game launch this game goes down to about 160,000 if not lower. And before you say okay so no one really cares if players leave. But when enough players leave that the game has to start shutting down servers. When those new games become big hits, and I see the potential, as long as they do not go the route of this game. Which I highly doubt.

    Then after enough players leave where it is no longer profitable to keep the game going you will see Rift close it's doors. Now do not get me wrong, I am just stating what could happen. Trying to tell those with the "since no one cares if players leave attitude". What happens when they do not care enough to help the game that they love transform into the game it should be.

    Look there are only two ways an MMO can kill WoW. First, the devs of an MMO make their game great on their own, possible. Second, it is more likely that an MMO will kill WoW because the players along with the devs make the game great.

    Would you want this game to quickly rise to the millions of subs that would put it close to WoW's numbers? Would you want this game to have something that is so unique to WoW, something so good, that is the primary focus of this game. Something that is so good it just does a good job of holding the players.

    Or do you want this game at best to slowly inch worm its way to a smaller peak of players. Doing it at a snails pace, less players means less people to team with, so more problems with LFG. At worst cases this game will reach it's peak then like WoW's WotLK it will stay the same for a long while until that next major hit MMO title launches. One that will be seen as the WoW of this age.

    One that finally dethrones WoW, not because the devs were trying to dethrone WoW, but because they were desiging a game that they know the players will like. Because the devs are players as well, and want to make a game that they would enjoy playing themselves.

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    Ascendant Chomag's Avatar
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    Cool story, breh.

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    Why are people so concerned with sub numbers?

    There are enough people on my server to do dungeons/raids/pvp/the game period. Some have left more have joined, but as long as there are people to play with and have fun who cares?
    Even free cost too much now

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    Quote Originally Posted by Credo View Post

    There are enough people on my server to do dungeons/raids/pvp/the game period.
    I guess because there's more than just 'your server' in the game?

    I agree with 'as long as you are having fun on your server, don't worry about anything'. But that point stands every server is different and right now, seems like a lot of people are pretty unhappy with one thing or another.

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    I have played other MMO's like City of Heroes, WoW, Guild Wars, Lineage 2, 9 Dragons, Hellgate London, etc..
    Starting with city of heroes..what a crap game

    and Lineage 2? There were no I quit forums because it was all Koreans going PKPKPKPKPKPK and it wasn't even worth threatening to leave just because it had good graphics. People just left
    Last edited by Swordfishy; 06-30-2011 at 01:53 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laughingstock View Post
    I guess because there's more than just 'your server' in the game?

    I agree with 'as long as you are having fun on your server, don't worry about anything'. But that point stands every server is different and right now, seems like a lot of people are pretty unhappy with one thing or another.
    That just might be the exact reason I specified that it was on my server...
    Even free cost too much now

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    Quote Originally Posted by Plaguestorm View Post
    I have played other MMO's like City of Heroes, WoW, Guild Wars, Lineage 2, 9 Dragons, Hellgate London, etc.. I have participated in most of the forums of those games. I have not seen as many I quit post (mine included) in those above mentioned games as I have here in this game. Some have not bothered paying for a sub after the first month.
    Oooooooookaaaaaaaay.

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    Sez
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    ITT: People Still Stuck in the Warcraft Mentality
    Sez is now Zes on Dayblind

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  9. #9
    Shield of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Credo View Post
    Why are people so concerned with sub numbers?

    There are enough people on my server to do dungeons/raids/pvp/the game period. Some have left more have joined, but as long as there are people to play with and have fun who cares?
    But the problem is that those with your carefree attitude, I will not be concerned until I am having problems. Then I will start voicing my concerns, and taking action, but then it could be too late. Trion at that point could be only a step away from shutting down the game.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordfishy View Post
    Starting with city of heroes..what a crap game

    and Lineage 2? There were no I quit forums because it was all Koreans going PKPKPKPKPKPK and it wasn't even worth threatening to leave just because it had good graphics. People just left
    If City of Heroes is crap, then the devs of this game better be ashamed of themselves, to let a crappy game beat them in player retention. This game is letting a game (City of Heroes), that survived a marvel lawsuit, that survived losing one third of it's player base to WoW.

    Because that is the topic at hand. How do you judge a game as crappy btw?

    Yes some of the I quit posts are threats, but I am talking about ones that post I quit, or this game is no longer for me (mine). Really do leave, no fooling, not just idle threats.

  11. #11
    Shield of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chomag View Post
    Oooooooookaaaaaaaay.
    Sorry Hellgate London did have it's multiplayer side, Since I played mostly multiplayer it was an MMO to me. But still regardless you still have a problem with player retention, more so when you have the games that I have listed that may not have been as good as this one, but still beat this game as far as player retention.

    player retention is what helps to make a good community, instead we have a revolving door as far as a game. Most of the forum visitors just does not care. We will have others to take your place. We will wait to care until I am personallly affected. But then it could be too late. How can a revolving door community be a solid one. This conversation that is made up could underscore the problem. That is if this game survives.

    Two years from now, two players a new one and veterans, the new player just joined the veterans raiding guild. Btw I am taking into account that the new player is a good player, a true veteran raider from other MMO's.

    New player: Hi all, I really appreciate you giving me a raid spot.
    Vet: Np, we are happy to have you.
    New player: I will no doubt need help to gear up.
    Vet: We will help with that.
    New player: I was wondering what this game was like at launch?
    Vet 1: I do not know I have only been playing for six months.
    Vet 2: Yea about the same here, about seven months.

    The new player would get about the same answer from all vets. Then he would say okay then this game has about a seven maybe eight month lifespan. Then players will get bored and move on. If he gets yes as a response, then tell me will he feel like he has found a home for a long while? Of course not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Plaguestorm View Post
    But the problem is that those with your carefree attitude, I will not be concerned until I am having problems.

    Then I will start voicing my concerns, and taking action, but then it could be too late. Trion at that point could be only a step away from shutting down the game.
    *apologies to Pastor Martin Niemöller*


    First they came for the dead servers, and I didn't speak out because those were latercomers to the game and I wasn't a latecomer.

    Then they came for the medium servers where latecomers were forced to move, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't forced to move.

    Then they came for the remaining servers that the popular guilds weren't on, and I didn't speak out because they were competition for populations, and I wanted to keep mine high.

    Then they came for my server, but by then there was no one left to speak for me because they all went to SWTOR, GW2, TERA or back to WoW.
    Last edited by Laughingstock; 06-30-2011 at 07:11 PM.

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    I don't see any evidence to support this theory. Lots of people leave a new MMO early on, but lots more stay around until they shut the doors. I sure don't expect to be going anywhere.
    You can play WoW in any MMO. You don't have to play WoW in RIFT. Oh, and no, RIFT is not a WoW clone. Not having fun any more? Learn to play, noob! I don't speak for Riftui, but I moderate stuff there. Just came back? Welcome back! Here's what's changed. (Updated for 2.5!)

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    I again think retention rate isnt the problem with this one, but they didnt sold at launch so much, but yeah I think they kept players quite well and still do. But MMORPG market is just bad shape, even SWTOR is going to break 1 mill.
    Last edited by June; 07-01-2011 at 05:42 AM.

  15. #15
    Sword of Telara Palvy's Avatar
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    Every MMO has a high player turn-over rate, no exceptions.

    WoW didn't build its huge subscriber base by grabbing and holding players; it invested into a heavy marketing campaign and free trials trying to entice people to try the game, with the expectation that a small number of those playing a free trial would stick around for at least a few months. Trion built the initial subscriber base in much the same way, by getting a large number to try the game free in the expectation that some would stick around. They're now in the growth phase, trying to entice enough players to try the game that the number of new subscriptions is greater than the number of players leaving.

    How many people actually stay after a free trial? I'm sure the advertising and marketing departments of any game company have a lot of trade publications dealing with just that topic, and plan their advertising campaigns accordingly.

    I played WoW for over 5 years. I'm sure that for marketing purposes that's great, because when new players would talk to me and find out that I stuck around for 5 years, they get the idea that something about the game is worth staying for. But I'm probably in a small minority; there really was a high turnover rate of players, and only a handful of those who started when I did stayed for that long.

    I'm not worried about Trion. They are adding content and the game looks nice and runs well, with few bugs.

    Complainers on the forum will exist in any game. The WoW forums have always had their share of people making their "QQ-I quit" posts; why would we expect any different on the Trion forums? The real assessment of the game's health is not in how many QQ posts are on the forum, but in subscription growth.

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