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Thread: The A-team

  1. #1
    KML
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    Default The A-team

    The A-team is a group who have played together enough to easily and quickly complete instances, have worked out a synergistic playstyle that makes even new encounters easier to master. They of course are decked out in the best gear.

    The B-team, if the guild is big enough to even have one, hasn't had the opportunity to gain as much experience, and the group is more likely to vary in composition based on who is available to play. They can have fun, but may also spend a lot of time waiting for enough folks or neecded classes to log on. They probably have significantly less leet gear than the A-team. They are not as likely to be prepared for a raid.

    The rest. They rarely get picked. Therefore they aren't well geared. They are probably nice folks and may well be great players if given the chance to practice and learn. They are often the last members of a dying guild when the A-team quits the guild and moves on because "their guild just doesn't have the high-calibre people to do the new raid."

    This is the way it has played out in countless guilds on many games. The rare exception, where the A-team or B-team takes every effort to make sure that every guild mate who wants to participate is given an equal chance to do so, is the only way to develop a strong and happy guild who can continue to progress through new material.

    So, next time your A-team completes a dungeon - instead of moving to the next with the same group - take turns substituting out other guild mates until everyone has equal experience and comfort running with everyone. Sure there will be wipes, but in the end it is worth it. The guild is strong and happy and you will meet new folks. You can take pride in your guild and it's accomplishments.

  2. #2
    Ascendant
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    You're quite the idealist and frankly, I agree. If I ran a guild in Rift, that's how I'd run it. But I won't be around in Rift long enough to do that, so I didn't set up a guild here. I intend to in my next game though.

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    Rift Disciple Jerabek's Avatar
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    Default interesting topic

    Interesting post. I wonder though, based on your set up, what motivation would there be for the folk in the "B-team" or the "no-team" to want to improve since all they need to do is wait for the content to be cleared or on farm by the "A-team" and then they can just be carried to new loot? Now, I'd agree with this a little more if the "a-team" was so big that you couldn't take them all in a raid. Then yes, you'd want to swap people in so that they don't get too far behind, but it seems a little counter productive to bring folk from the "no-team" group, especially if the new content has just been freshly cleared. For brand new content, it takes time to get everyone on the same page as far as learning the strat and mechanics of the encounter. Bringing in a new person each time can magnify the issue.

    Maybe my opening question should have been: Are you suggesting this set up for farm content or fresh new content (i/e Hammerknell)?

    Good discussion, thanks!

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    KML
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    Brief response: Few people want to be carried or enter a new instance that is already on farm mode to the rest of the group. No fun or adrenalin in that. And in my world there would no longer even be an A-team that is better qualified to scout out the latest instance, since everyone would be equally qualified to do so.

    Naiive, maybe. However, the sucess or failure of a game very often comes down to what the community makes of it. We all benefit, including the A-teams, when everyone is happy (and geared). The game stops losing players, the developers make money and add more content.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerabek View Post
    Interesting post. I wonder though, based on your set up, what motivation would there be for the folk in the "B-team" or the "no-team" to want to improve since all they need to do is wait for the content to be cleared or on farm by the "A-team" and then they can just be carried to new loot? Now, I'd agree with this a little more if the "a-team" was so big that you couldn't take them all in a raid. Then yes, you'd want to swap people in so that they don't get too far behind, but it seems a little counter productive to bring folk from the "no-team" group, especially if the new content has just been freshly cleared. For brand new content, it takes time to get everyone on the same page as far as learning the strat and mechanics of the encounter. Bringing in a new person each time can magnify the issue.


    Good discussion, thanks!

  5. #5
    Sez
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    I hope your little nugget of wisdom helps someone, but for the established guilds, we know already.
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    Shield of Telara Kelvenaru's Avatar
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    I agree, I am sick of guild members that woill "only" do t2 instances, and wont lower themselevrs to come hand help a lvl 48 or 49 run a normal CC/AP or a new 50 gear up and run a t1.

    Really irritates me that mindset. They are always the ones who.."move" on to greener pastures they say, then you see them crying for groups in lvl 50 chat a lot hehe, as we are running t2's a few days later with the person who was just doing normal cc/ap a few days before...ah karma, sometimes it is nice.

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    Ascendant xanduin246's Avatar
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    i was in a guild that unintentionally did that at release, they had their clique, would form groups through whispers and only invite others if one of their favorites was offline. i left that guild for other reasons but it gets very old very fast

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    Ascendant Oggiefishier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KML View Post
    Brief response: Few people want to be carried or enter a new instance that is already on farm mode to the rest of the group. No fun or adrenalin in that. And in my world there would no longer even be an A-team that is better qualified to scout out the latest instance, since everyone would be equally qualified to do so.

    Naiive, maybe. However, the sucess or failure of a game very often comes down to what the community makes of it. We all benefit, including the A-teams, when everyone is happy (and geared). The game stops losing players, the developers make money and add more content.....
    A few problems.. gear isn't the only thing seperating the A team from the rest of the guild..
    I say this as someone who was a head raid leader for a large casual guild that happened to raid..

    For each raid instance we had 5 raids on various days of the week and times of the day.. our A team was a machine for chewing up raid content.

    Those team members knew what each other were going to do in any situation before they did it and were acting on it before it happened..not reacting afterwards..

    Our other teams were less so..in both player skill level and teamwork..

    Our raid leaders were mostly team one players who had time to raid on other days with alts.

    Given same gear our a team if given enouch content would be clearing 3_4 tiers ahead of our other teams easily..

    We also found out from trying what you suggested that it can easily cause guild drama when a progression minded set of raiders are "held back" because of the rest of the raid being slack in research and dedication . The more serious raiders get agrivated from what they see as simple stupid mistakes while the casuals see themselves as degraded even if nothing is said because they know they aren't at that level..


    While I agree with the sentiment of your idea in practice it doesn't work out that well.
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    Champion Naria's Avatar
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    Well the "A-Team" are all friends, though B. A. Barackus can kind of be moody... why would they go back and help people at the major sacrifice of their own progression?

    your logic is idealistic, wand would be great if it worked, but really in most cases going back to get every last person in the guild up to speed with your progressions doesn't let you, in your own words, "progress through new material" you would be progressing through Tier 2 Experts when we get a new raid in 1.4.

    I'm not disagreeing it would be great if it worked, but it's unlikely to unless you just happen to have the perfectly sized guild; 30-40 raiders who actually gear them selves up, prepare, and are ready to play, it's just not worth the time bringing people who *might* be good players, they need to figure that out for themselves.

    I did a bunch of things and a bunch of stuff; now I'm just a casual player.

  10. #10
    Sword of Telara
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    well youve discribed my first guild experience to a T.
    I hope my guild reads your post!!

    I'm either B-team at best or more likley "no team".
    several others have quit the guild recently and said it was becuase they didnt feell like they were part of the clique.
    I sent a guild officer a letter describing the situation, and suggesting the remedy you more experienced guilds have indicated that you use. How they respond to that letter will determiine my future in their guild I guess. If they make some kind of effort Im cool with that.

    I want to improve not be carried, i want to be a sought after asset to the team, not a hinderance. i know I will slow down their raids at first but the only way I can improve in instances is to get some experience in them. Ive been 50 for a month and have only done 2 T1's so IM not loving endgame or my level of involvement in my guilds activities right now. They complian people just 'use' them to level to 50, but honestly they didnt help me at all leveling to 50...the help I need is right now at the trasnition to end game, and its not there in any organized fashion.

  11. #11
    Rift Disciple Tzimisce's Avatar
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    In 2011, a crack Rift unit was sent to prison by a Guardian court for a crime they didn't commit. These Rifters promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the Silverwood underground. Today, still wanted by the Guardians they survive as soldiers of fortune. If you see a Rift or invasion, if no one else can help, and if you can find them....maybe you can hire The A-Team.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naria View Post
    Well the "A-Team" are all friends, though B. A. Barackus can kind of be moody... why would they go back and help people at the major sacrifice of their own progression?

    your logic is idealistic, wand would be great if it worked, but really in most cases going back to get every last person in the guild up to speed with your progressions doesn't let you, in your own words, "progress through new material" you would be progressing through Tier 2 Experts when we get a new raid in 1.4.

    I'm not disagreeing it would be great if it worked, but it's unlikely to unless you just happen to have the perfectly sized guild; 30-40 raiders who actually gear them selves up, prepare, and are ready to play, it's just not worth the time bringing people who *might* be good players, they need to figure that out for themselves.
    perhaps idealistic again, but I would think that the freshly geared and acclimated new 50's would then take the next crop of new 50's back thru the T1's once they've gotten up to speed. You then have a sort of mentoring system that promotes commaraderie and best of all, your guild will have a healthy crop of raiders instead of bleeding off new 50's who cant get theri initial duingeon runs in. I dont expectb anyone to spend their entire career in this game training newbs.

    i dunno, Ive heard this actually works in other guilds and so I suggested it to mine. but this is my first guild and first MMO, i bow to yalls greater experience in how things really work in actuality.
    Last edited by Chovie; 06-17-2011 at 09:54 AM.

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    Sword of Telara Zahne's Avatar
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    The "A-Team" is usually a group of friends or a combination of people with out of game ties. The reason why they're so good is that they communicate with each other and play regularly.

    Adding other people into that group will remove any benefit it had.


    I ran a guild where I'd frequently have people complain that I was always running in an "A-Team" that they had very little opportunity to join. They felt it was unfair.

    The team? All married couples that lived together out of game. Who would you kick out?

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    Ascendant Chomag's Avatar
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    Cool story, breh.

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    Sword of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zahne View Post
    The "A-Team" is usually a group of friends or a combination of people with out of game ties. The reason why they're so good is that they communicate with each other and play regularly.

    Adding other people into that group will remove any benefit it had.


    I ran a guild where I'd frequently have people complain that I was always running in an "A-Team" that they had very little opportunity to join. They felt it was unfair.

    The team? All married couples that lived together out of game. Who would you kick out?
    I understand , but isnt a guild largely about grouping with people OTHER than your spouse or RL firends too?
    I guess if you dont care about the health of your guild or having a large crop of raiders to raid with..then yeah, play with your spouses to the exclusion of all others...i gotta ask tho, why even have a guild?

    maybe I dont unerstand what a guilds purpose is?
    Last edited by Chovie; 06-17-2011 at 10:06 AM.

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