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Thread: People these days

  1. #16
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siphaed View Post
    No, this is the reason though:


    (Semi-Full, not edited to make those protesters look like goodguys version)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jUU3yCy3uI



    Basically they brought their whole camera crew and set up to go purposely protest at that monument. The police gave them a clear warning as to what to do and not to do when protesting. They instead did exactly the opposite of that and purposely taunted the police to make them arrest them.


    The law is indeed stupid as to what it is, but the people in the video are more stupid because they directly disregarded a police officer and choose to encourage ignoring police.
    Wow, i didn't see that video. . . the cop gave them a fair warning yet they went and pulled these shenanigans off. I feel slightly sick >.>

  2. #17
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    Betya this adam guy would dance at a funeral if it was "illegal"
    Last edited by Aggrobeast; 05-29-2011 at 09:45 PM.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siphaed View Post
    No, this is the reason though:


    (Semi-Full, not edited to make those protesters look like goodguys version)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jUU3yCy3uI



    Basically they brought their whole camera crew and set up to go purposely protest at that monument. The police gave them a clear warning as to what to do and not to do when protesting. They instead did exactly the opposite of that and purposely taunted the police to make them arrest them.


    The law is indeed stupid as to what it is, but the people in the video are more stupid because they directly disregarded a police officer and choose to encourage ignoring police.
    But they raise valid points.

    The cop says they're going to be arrested. They, as citizens, as the people that the government is supposed to be beholden to, make a simple request. "Under what law, and by what authority?" They even take it further -- even supposing that there is indeed a law on the books against dancing in a public venue, what is 'dancing'? How can you make something illegal if you have not clearly defined what it is?

    Those questions are never answered.

    You can't say "Well they did what a cop told them not to, therefore they deserve to be arrested". What if the cop told them that they would be arrested for breathing, and they proceeded to breathe? Do you still defer to the absolute authority of the man in the uniform? Where do you draw the line?

    What you have there is lawlessness. What you have there is a government that arrests its citizenry by arbitrary fiat, not by law. That is not government of, by, and for the people.That is fascist government that exists only to perpetuate itself, not to serve the people.

  4. #19
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    This doesn't surprise me that people see nothing wrong with organized public disturbance.. There is a place and time for everything, and this isn't one of them.. Freedom is NOT absolute.. As the old saying goes, "you have the right to throw a punch, right up to the point it hits my nose, then you lose that right".. If you can't understand that, this civil society is surely as risk.. This group was looking for nothing more then their 15 minutes of fame while causing a public disturbance, plain and simple..
    Last edited by Rydeson; 05-29-2011 at 09:47 PM.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rydeson View Post
    This doesn't surprise me that people see nothing wrong with organized public disturbance.. There is a place and time for everything, and this isn't one of them.. Freedom is NOT absolute.. As the old saying goes, "you have the right to throw a punch, right up to the point it hits my nose, then you lose that right".. If you can't understand that, this civil society is surely as risk.. This group was looking for nothing more then their 15 minutes of fame while causing a public disturbance, plain and simple..
    A law has just been passed that anyone found in possession of the color blue is to be imprisoned. If you own anything that is colored, in part or in whole, with any shade or tint of blue, you are violating the law.

    Where does it stop?

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isila View Post
    But they raise valid points.

    The cop says they're going to be arrested. They, as citizens, as the people that the government is supposed to be beholden to, make a simple request. "Under what law, and by what authority?" They even take it further -- even supposing that there is indeed a law on the books against dancing in a public venue, what is 'dancing'? How can you make something illegal if you have not clearly defined what it is?

    Those questions are never answered.

    You can't say "Well they did what a cop told them not to, therefore they deserve to be arrested". What if the cop told them that they would be arrested for breathing, and they proceeded to breathe? Do you still defer to the absolute authority of the man in the uniform? Where do you draw the line?

    What you have there is lawlessness. What you have there is a government that arrests its citizenry by arbitrary fiat, not by law. That is not government of, by, and for the people.That is fascist government that exists only to perpetuate itself, not to serve the people.
    You have no understanding of law, do you? This isn't necessarily a "public place" 100%, it's a National Park (as all monuments are, just the same as Yellowstone). Each Park has it's own regulations and guidelines.

    http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text...0.1.96&idno=36
    (g) Demonstrations and special events —(1) Definitions. (i) The term “demonstrations” includes demonstrations, picketing, speechmaking, marching, holding vigils or religious services and all other like forms of conduct which involve the communication or expression of views or grievances, engaged in by one or more persons, the conduct of which has the effect, intent or propensity to draw a crowd or onlookers. This term does not include casual park use by visitors or tourists which does not have an intent or propensity to attract a crowd or onlookers.

    ....

    (2) Permit requirements. Demonstrations and special events may be held only pursuant to a permit issued in accordance with the provisions of this section except:


    (C) The Jefferson Memorial, which means the circular portion of the Jefferson Memorial enclosed by the outermost series of columns, and all portions on the same levels or above the base of these columns, except for the official annual commemorative Jefferson birthday ceremony.
    That's the law that they violated. They held a "protest" of sorts, didn't have any presentable document to show that they were allowed to do so. And proceeded to taunt the police about it after a FAIR WARNING of not to do so. And, in fact, for that Jefferson Memorial, they cannot hold any demonstrations there what so ever, as said in that specific law.
    Last edited by Siphaed; 05-29-2011 at 09:59 PM.
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isila View Post
    A law has just been passed that anyone found in possession of the color blue is to be imprisoned. If you own anything that is colored, in part or in whole, with any shade or tint of blue, you are violating the law.

    Where does it stop?
    Yeah.. I'm sure if that disruptive flash mob decided to show up in your yard, and defecate in a large pile and proceed to call it art, you'd be singing a different toon.. See how I can make strange examples too?

  8. #23
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    We're not operating on the same level.

    I'm not claiming that what they were doing was not in violation of a law. Quoting the law they were violating makes no difference. I am claiming that the law is not legitimate. See my previous post about outlawing the color blue. It doesn't matter if that law is on the books, it is not a legitimate law and should not be obeyed by any free person. Blind deference to authority is not a mark of a free society, it is a mark of an oppressed society.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rydeson View Post
    Yeah.. I'm sure if that disruptive flash mob decided to show up in your yard, and defecate in a large pile and proceed to call it art, you'd be singing a different toon.. See how I can make strange examples too?
    Would you or would you not obey that law, if it existed?

  10. #25
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    I've never felt compelled to post on these forums. I generally use them for class info, coming updates, and the like. Watching the second video posted here (the longer one) I saw a posted quote that I think is appropriate to share here.

    "The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive."
    Thomas Jefferson
    Last edited by Gill; 05-30-2011 at 12:25 AM. Reason: trolling

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isila View Post
    We're not operating on the same level.

    I'm not claiming that what they were doing was not in violation of a law. Quoting the law they were violating makes no difference. I am claiming that the law is not legitimate. See my previous post about outlawing the color blue. It doesn't matter if that law is on the books, it is not a legitimate law and should not be obeyed by any free person. Blind deference to authority is not a mark of a free society, it is a mark of an oppressed society.
    So you want complete anarchy? NO THANKS..

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isila View Post
    But they raise valid points.

    The cop says they're going to be arrested. They, as citizens, as the people that the government is supposed to be beholden to, make a simple request. "Under what law, and by what authority?" They even take it further -- even supposing that there is indeed a law on the books against dancing in a public venue, what is 'dancing'? How can you make something illegal if you have not clearly defined what it is?

    Those questions are never answered.

    You can't say "Well they did what a cop told them not to, therefore they deserve to be arrested". What if the cop told them that they would be arrested for breathing, and they proceeded to breathe? Do you still defer to the absolute authority of the man in the uniform? Where do you draw the line?

    What you have there is lawlessness. What you have there is a government that arrests its citizenry by arbitrary fiat, not by law. That is not government of, by, and for the people.That is fascist government that exists only to perpetuate itself, not to serve the people.
    You are correct sort of.

    That is for the COURTS to decide. They were given a command by the police officer and they disobeyed. They were probably cited for obstruction or disturbing the peace. If you are causing a disturbance to others in a public place they have the right to arrest you. You will have your day in court, and you can defend your self. But the arrest is legal, and should be done.

    It is not being FREE when you have a group going some where and initiating a problem with the intent to throw up your arms and say OMG!

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulfax View Post
    Learn your history - the founding fathers of this country put their lives on the line, that's well documented. I think that's worth a memorial, but I'm from a different generation then most of ya'll.
    Firefighters put their lives on the line too. I don't see them being revered in the same way. Surely you know that history cleans up a lot of things. There's more about our founding fathers that we don't know than we know. Thomas Jefferson kept slaves, though he wrote all men are created equal. Shrugs.

    If you want to believe written history as fact, you're perfectly entitled to. But only victors write history and there are plenty of things that our pioneering forefathers did that aren't necessarily portrayed in the same light, or not at all.

    It's like Christopher Columbus. For years I celebrated Columbus Day, until I realized the kind of person Columbus was, which you get from reading history.

    Paul Revere is credited with making an historic ride, even though he was arrested and never made that ride. Willaim Dawes did. The reason Paul Revere is credited with it, is the poem "The Midnight Ride of Paul Revere". This was written by Longfellow, because he felt guilty because his grandfather tried to court martial Paul Revere.

    Did it occur to you that the redcoat troops that assaulted early colonists were also dying?

    History is not a one side coin. I've probably read as much history as you have. The difference is, I've delved deeper than the surface history and know more about that time period than you do.

    Have a nice day.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isila View Post
    We're not operating on the same level.

    I'm not claiming that what they were doing was not in violation of a law. Quoting the law they were violating makes no difference. I am claiming that the law is not legitimate. See my previous post about outlawing the color blue. It doesn't matter if that law is on the books, it is not a legitimate law and should not be obeyed by any free person. Blind deference to authority is not a mark of a free society, it is a mark of an oppressed society.
    People like you are what is wrong with today's society, you think you can go around and do whatever you want damn the consequences of your actions. Its obviously a deliberate attempt to disturb the peace, which is you know illegal? If you violate the rights of others the right to freedom of action is revoked, the rights of others come before the rights of the people deliberatly violating them.

  15. #30
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Uyia...eature=related

    They were there protesting that a woman was arrested and lost her appeal for dancing at the memorial. They new it was a crime.

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