+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Let's just stop with the casual vs hardcore arguements....

  1. #1
    Plane Touched
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    236

    Default Let's just stop with the casual vs hardcore arguements....

    And have some kind of civil discussion in terms of what people actually want when they say something is too casual or too hardcore....


    1) If someone plays soccer every day and trains every day... he gets better than say someone who plays an hour or 2 a week.

    2) If someone plays any video game a lot he'll be better than someone who plays 1 or 2 hours a week.


    So why do people want an MMO to somehow bypass this? Are people hoping that the game becomes so dumbed down that any advantage from playing a lot more is gone?

    We seem to beat around the bush with this topic a lot...

    So is just a "feeling" of hardcore versus casual? Or is there some limit in a person's mind when it gets out of hand?


    For example let's for this thread use the arguement that 1 represents an average player. .5 is a person half as good as an average player and 2 is someone who is double as good as an average player. The time played is also at this ratio.


    Lets assume the gear was equal (it wouldn't be, but lets assume for this arguement).

    Are people actually saying that the .5 could beat a 2 if only the gear was equal? or a 1 versus a 2?


    All the extra practice means nothing? I'd beg to differ as I still see people going to vault in codex and healers spamming aoe heals till they are OOM right off the bat.
    Last edited by Safeharbor; 04-05-2011 at 01:26 PM.

  2. #2
    General of Telara
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    930

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Safeharbor View Post
    All the extra practice means nothing? I'd beg to differ as I still see people going to vault in codex and healers spamming aoe heals till they are OOM right off the bat.
    You can't cure stupid. And yes, there are people who find a MMO difficult. Just like you find people who think that because they can repeatedly click through a rotation and not stand in fire they're "skilled". They're not.

    Modern MMOs are not difficult. They are marketed at the lowest common denominator. The people that go to Vault in Codex not in their first match, but in all their matches. And spam AoE heals and wonder why they are out of mana not once, but all the time. Moreover, their revenue stream is based off repeating content. The stupid players need to repeat that content so they will keep on paying month after month and not be discouraged by the difficulty level.

    Casual? Hardcore? Doesn't matter. These games are designed to be played by everybody - even those that need help wiping their own arses. You don't need a lot of practice to get "better" at this. You just need some basic cognitive ability.

  3. #3
    Soulwalker NorthWind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    12

    Default

    Some people have lives but also like to play MMOs. Should they be penilized for working hard at a job or studying hard for school? It's when people have a large advantage that skill can't overcome because they play more is when the casual players get miffed. Not saying this is happening, just an explanation.
    AMD Phenom - 6 Core
    8 (4x2) GB RAM
    NVIDIA GTX 560 TI

  4. #4
    Rift Chaser Zylla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    332

    Default

    What are you arguing for or against?

    No ones saying that a person who only crafts and hunts for shinies will get to raid and kill Regulos or whatever or do any better.

    I think the issue is that hardcore vs casual vs pvp all want different things in the game and it causes major dramz on the forum.

    And don't forget about the people who play MMOs for hours a day and still royally suck at them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Puremallace View Post
    np feel free to ask. The general forums are useful, but we argue in other threads to pass the time at work

  5. #5
    General of Telara Thulium's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    882

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Treras View Post
    You can't cure stupid. And yes, there are people who find a MMO difficult. Just like you find people who think that because they can repeatedly click through a rotation and not stand in fire they're "skilled". They're not.

    [...snip...]

    Casual? Hardcore? Doesn't matter. These games are designed to be played by everybody - even those that need help wiping their own arses. You don't need a lot of practice to get "better" at this. You just need some basic cognitive ability.
    This.

    Time Played != Skill

    You could practice your golf swing day and night, but without the requisite talent you will never play professionally.

    That said,

    Video games (especially MMORPGs) aren't hard. You aren't hardcore for playing it "better"/faster. If you understand the basic concepts, you can play just about anything.
    [Server] Faeblight
    [Retail] M_1=Chloromancer(D), M_2=Cleric(D), A=Rogue(D)
    [Beta 1-7] Tank (Reaver/Paladin)

  6. #6
    Champion EvilDonald's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    575

    Default

    I think we all forget to enjoy the game and focus too much on what the OP is talking about. My rogue is now lvl 49 and about a quarter to 50. I have leveled the entire way through questing and rifts with the odd PvP match here and there. No instances whatsover. Did I miss some stuff not doing instances? You bet. Did I miss some really good gear on the way? Sure.
    Do I care? No. Did I have a blast the entire way? Oh Hell yes. and learned a Hell of a lot about rotations and how my character worked on the way.

    For the first time in an MMO I ignored what people were doing and just did my own thing. At 50 I will look at instances, rep grinds, re-specing and even professions as I ignored those as well. Some will call me fool and many other things I am sure. But I have really had a blast! To top it off I now have all of those other things to do and a healthy supply of plat to help me through it all.

    I am really glad I took this approach as it has been fantastic. I hope some others can glean a little from this post and remember that we are here to have fun first and foremost.
    Quote Originally Posted by martroll View Post
    if rift comes good it be bye bye wow.

  7. #7
    Ascendant
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    2,771

    Default

    Comparing athletes who practice all the time to people who play MMOs for hours on end, day after day, is a very bad analogy. This is why...

    MMOs are "canned" content. They are designed by someone specifically to get through. PVP is designed to keep people beating away at each other, but even that rewards losers as well as winners. In the end, the game isn't really designed to be competitive. Think of it this way.

    Two elite swimmers swim in the same pool, in the same water. Their skills, which they practice every day, make them better at that one thing.

    Two different people in a PVP area in a game aren't starting in the same place. They have different classes, different skills, different gear. In fact, a lot of times, one class is designed to take down another class, or at least contains skills which make that possible.

    You can't compare a real world athletic event with a game that has a contrived method of getting different classes to have some sort of rock, paper, scissors system. The analogy doesn't hold.

    There are a lot of reasons why some people aren't good. Some don't care. They play games to enjoy themselves. They get their competition in real life, and don't have an epeen complex about what happens online. They fight in sales figures, or boardrooms. Or they fight fires. Or they fight stupidity in their work place. Then theny come home and play a game to relax and enjoy themselves. They're not particularly interested in having a career online, cause they already have one.

    The funny bit is, games are entertainment, as well as competition. If you only include people who play MMOs competitively, you leave out a percentage of the population. I won't say what percentage, because I don't know. But I do know that if a company wants a successful MMO in this day and age, they have to cater to people who care about epeen, and people who don't. People who care about direct competition and people who don't.

    And those who can play all day every day and put hours and hours into the game, well, bully for them. That's just great. I think there should be things those people can achieve that more casual players can't. But I don't think those things should give them an advantage in combat, because in theory they wouldn't need it. I think they should get some great looking gear, but if they're so skilled, what's the urgency to have something that makes them even more skilled.

    That's my big objection with the whole skill argument. Those with more time to play a game like this, get more stuff that makes them better. Those who have time and no skill, eventually can still get that stuff. Having that stuff doesn't necessarily mean having more skill, even if you wish it to be true.

    You'd think from this post I'm a casual player, but I'm really not. Nor am I particularly hard core. I'm somewhere in between the two, watching both sides of the debate with equal amusement.

  8. #8
    Rift Disciple
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    188

    Default let's discuss

    So your correlating a video game with sports, so lets go there:

    Richard Hamilton the III - honors student, physics major, 4.0 grade average , asthma, no previous soccer experience, and only has one leg, joins the soccer team "Defiant's Balls".

    David Beckham pro soccer player is also on team "Defiant's Balls".

    So if your assumption is correct Richard will eventually be better than David if:

    Richard learns how to play with one leg
    Richard practices all day (if that is even possible)
    David doesn't practice more than an hour a day
    and Richard doesn't die from an asthma attack.

    I don't feel I need to summarize the above.

    Now your assumption could be correct if:

    After many hours of practice Richard and team "Defiant's Balls" beat "Guardian Gnatts" 40 some odd times, gaining enough prestige for a sergeant to award him a purple soccer ball with 1000 armor, +30 strength, +50 endurance, and +100 physical crit.

    Richard simply gives up soccer and becomes a pyromage and Fulmiates the entire team with 6k+ crits (which still leaves half his mana pool to use his "summon hot chicks" spell).

    Did this sound absurd, I hope so, that's how I felt after I read the OP.

+ Reply to Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts