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    Default Is the Warhammer Dev..

    That was in charge of balancing Warhammer now Balancing Rift?

    I wanted to ask here, I have read, and heard things, and I like to confirm information. Not just accept it

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    Quote Originally Posted by AvdielZion View Post
    That was in charge of balancing Warhammer now Balancing Rift?

    I wanted to ask here, I have read, and heard things, and I like to confirm information. Not just accept it
    You think there's only one person responsible for class balance?

    There's your first indication that your source is incorrect.

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    My hope is in the future they are a bit less extreme in their balancing efforts and I would love it if they moderated a few of their changes too in the the future.

    Great game though!


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    Prophet of Telara dirtyklingon's Avatar
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    do a google of "gersh rift" without quotes. you'll get plenty of result from his time as lead of balance in warhammer.

    he is now lead of balance in rift.


    so those of you who noticed as of 1.1 balanc ein rift looks alot like balance in warhammer, yes you know who to thank for it. and yes he is charge. and yes scot hartsman is now focusing on trion next project, along with the previous balance team. so yes you can throw out the last 3-6 months of podcasts from hartsman saying x will never happen and y will never happen, because alot of that stuff happened with 1.1.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtyklingon View Post
    do a google of "gersh rift" without quotes. you'll get plenty of result from his time as lead of balance in warhammer.

    he is now lead of balance in rift.


    so those of you who noticed as of 1.1 balanc ein rift looks alot like balance in warhammer, yes you know who to thank for it. and yes he is charge. and yes scot hartsman is now focusing on trion next project, along with the previous balance team. so yes you can throw out the last 3-6 months of podcasts from hartsman saying x will never happen and y will never happen, because alot of that stuff happened with 1.1.
    If that is true its bad news for the game. I hope Scott takes an active part in the management of this game and not only the guy who makes games. Games are ruined in the management of them not the creation of them


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    Prophet of Telara dirtyklingon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cascadesbiker View Post
    If that is true its bad news for the game. I hope Scott takes an active part in the management of this game and not only the guy who makes games. Games are ruined in the management of them not the creation of them

    have you noticed how since just before alpha scot did his last podcast/interview and it was mainly to brag about how successful rift was?

    hmm let me try and find it. it was right before 1.1 alpha and the whoever is in charge of pushing 1.1 made a huge liar out of scot hartsman.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtyklingon View Post
    do a google of "gersh rift" without quotes. you'll get plenty of result from his time as lead of balance in warhammer.

    he is now lead of balance in rift.


    so those of you who noticed as of 1.1 balanc ein rift looks alot like balance in warhammer, yes you know who to thank for it. and yes he is charge. and yes scot hartsman is now focusing on trion next project, along with the previous balance team. so yes you can throw out the last 3-6 months of podcasts from hartsman saying x will never happen and y will never happen, because alot of that stuff happened with 1.1.
    So you know this because you work for Trion?

    I mean, their structure is public, yes, but it sounds like you have inside information about how the company actually runs. If you know anything about corporate structure, you know that things on the on the inside often run much differently than they appear to on the outside.

    Truth is, we know very little about how their corporate structure works, obviously, you have the game dev basics, but unless you work for them, you can't really say much about how it ACTUALLY works.

    I'm not saying you're WRONG about what's happening, but you're making some very large assumptive leaps here.
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    Warhammer was ruined buy mismanagement. God help if that guy does the same to this game.

    I really liked some aspects of Warhammer though


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    People responsible for balance have been villianized in every MMO be it WoW, Rift or WAR.

    I do think Rift does a decent job with all the combos available if they only nerf Pyros.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imi View Post
    You think there's only one person responsible for class balance?

    There's your first indication that your source is incorrect.
    He is the Lead dev on class balance, therefore it is correct.

    All balancing goes through him, and if you want to know just how much of the same, rinse & repeat we are getting from him.....

    Check the Cleric, Warrior & Rogue threads for stickies from Gersh......now check the mage.

    He only posted in the mage thread despite the Rogue being the number 1 under-performing calling at this current time, Rogues tried to be civil at first, got nothing now they are complaining, still nothing.

    The man has such an obvious mage bias that you would have to be Stood behind a reinforced Titanium alloy blast door to not see it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cascadesbiker View Post
    Warhammer was ruined buy mismanagement. God help if that guy does the same to this game.

    I really liked some aspects of Warhammer though

    Warhammer had tons of issues. If the OP classes in WAR where on both sides it wouldnt be as big of an issue but in WAR one faction could get the OP class.
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    Now, now... let's not jump to silly conclusions. There are many, many factors that go towards 'balancing' beyond just the person responsible for it.

    Like in all careers, someone has to make the final decision and take the rap if it all goes wrong. However, most of the time, that final decision has to be made from a poor choice of options.

    Anyway, I'm all for class variety over class balance. Where's the challenge if each class is the same. Also, how do you go about balancing a class that is high DPS against a class that is 90% (or something) healing.

    Remeber, each class must be balanced for PvE solo, PvP solo, PvE PuG's, PvP PuG's, PvE Premades, PvP Premades... you get the general idea yeah? Balancing isn't easy. Think of it like taking charge of the Middle East Peace Process, and your looking at the same level of difficulty, except that, fortunately, player characters can't actually kill you in RL (except for some crazy exceptions).
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    http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/3...asutra+News%29

    H: Yeah. And that's exactly it. Our biggest challenge is, how do we make a game that's interesting enough for somebody that doesn't really play MMOs, but does get games? For starters, I should say that this game is not targeted at people who don't play games. We're not going after the gamer newbie. That's just not it.

    I think in the year 2011, there are enough hundreds of millions of people that have played games in the world to where we don't really need to worry about going after the FarmVille crowd. FarmVille takes care of them just fine. So, we are going after gamers and giving gamers new experiences.

    So, yeah, if you look at a game like World of Warcraft, how many tens of millions have touched that game in its life? If you look at EverQuest, how many gamers have touched that over its life? You can build a really ridiculously healthy business by just making that group of people happy. If nothing else, we definitely know the audience that we're going after.
    Obviously that becomes a big thing with MMOs. This gear is totally not balanced. it has to get nerfed. People start freaking out. That kind of stuff. But you're not too concerned as long as people are having fun...

    SH: As long as it's not egregiously broken. Like, for example, the hypothetical example, if I am doing 100 points of damage every time I swing a sword and you're doing 1, we have a problem, but we already have it well within the range where it's not a big issue.

    Yeah, I mean, of course, like any MMO, we'll correct things as they come up. That's why we're very fortunate in that we've been testing these abilities and these souls and these classes in front of users for the better part of a year. A year of time of getting beat up in front of people who are smarter than you are -- the players -- is good.
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    Prophet of Telara dirtyklingon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrunt View Post
    So you know this because you work for Trion?

    I mean, their structure is public, yes, but it sounds like you have inside information about how the company actually runs. If you know anything about corporate structure, you know that things on the on the inside often run much differently than they appear to on the outside.

    Truth is, we know very little about how their corporate structure works, obviously, you have the game dev basics, but unless you work for them, you can't really say much about how it ACTUALLY works.

    I'm not saying you're WRONG about what's happening, but you're making some very large assumptive leaps here.
    no assumptions. it's all very well documented. look at the dev tracker, look at the google search, look back at the forums and who was making post sin regards to balance issues during beta and headstart/launch, then look at scot hartsman interviews over the past 6 months, then look at 1.1, and look at when gersh started posting, and the nature of gersh's post, then look at his posts on warhammer forums and warhammer interviews, then look at 1.1 again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Basilius View Post
    He is the Lead dev on class balance, therefore it is correct.

    All balancing goes through him, and if you want to know just how much of the same, rinse & repeat we are getting from him.....

    Check the Cleric, Warrior & Rogue threads for stickies from Gersh......now check the mage.

    He only posted in the mage thread despite the Rogue being the number 1 under-performing calling at this current time, Rogues tried to be civil at first, got nothing now they are complaining, still nothing.

    The man has such an obvious mage bias that you would have to be Stood behind a reinforced Titanium alloy blast door to not see it.
    more or less.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AvdielZion View Post
    That was in charge of balancing Warhammer now Balancing Rift?

    I wanted to ask here, I have read, and heard things, and I like to confirm information. Not just accept it
    True.
    The same dev that was lead in warhammer is the lead here, and a few other devs are here as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Imi View Post
    You think there's only one person responsible for class balance?

    There's your first indication that your source is incorrect.
    You are incorrect, please see all the following post's.

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtyklingon View Post
    do a google of "gersh rift" without quotes. you'll get plenty of result from his time as lead of balance in warhammer.

    he is now lead of balance in rift.


    so those of you who noticed as of 1.1 balanc ein rift looks alot like balance in warhammer, yes you know who to thank for it. and yes he is charge. and yes scot hartsman is now focusing on trion next project, along with the previous balance team. so yes you can throw out the last 3-6 months of podcasts from hartsman saying x will never happen and y will never happen, because alot of that stuff happened with 1.1.
    I agree, there is a scary amount of sameness here with warhammer.
    I hope for the best but I expect the worst.




    Quote Originally Posted by Cascadesbiker View Post
    Warhammer was ruined buy mismanagement. God help if that guy does the same to this game.

    I really liked some aspects of Warhammer though

    It could happen, I hope it does not.
    I too really liked some of what warhammer had, the RvR was the best part of the game IMO, it even had great instances and dungeons.
    The instanced PvP was awesome.

    Quote Originally Posted by Basilius View Post
    He is the Lead dev on class balance, therefore it is correct.

    All balancing goes through him, and if you want to know just how much of the same, rinse & repeat we are getting from him.....

    Check the Cleric, Warrior & Rogue threads for stickies from Gersh......now check the mage.

    He only posted in the mage thread despite the Rogue being the number 1 under-performing calling at this current time, Rogues tried to be civil at first, got nothing now they are complaining, still nothing.

    The man has such an obvious mage bias that you would have to be Stood behind a reinforced Titanium alloy blast door to not see it.
    Just like the wonderful BW's and Sorcs where in Warhammer, we may be heading down that path.

    Some classes like MM (shadow warrior is almost EXACTLY the same) are ignored, voidknight (chosen) could use some work as well.

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    Last edited by Candlejack357; 04-05-2011 at 08:59 AM.

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