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Thread: Who else is bored of the WoW/Rift End-Game Business Model?

  1. #1
    Ascendant Haseno's Avatar
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    Default Who else is bored of the WoW/Rift End-Game Business Model?

    I'm bored of it...so i went searching for some history...The first game which came to my mind was Vanguard. But this is all I can remember being said, and then the complete opposite happening.

    "Hello Everyone,

    Today I would like to formally announce that SOE has acquired the assets of Sigil Games Online, including Vanguard: Saga of Heroes. As a part of this acquisition, we are bringing on approx 50 people from Sigil in order to insure that Vanguard continues to grow. SOE is dedicated to making sure that Vanguard is well taken care of and that we provide the same level of service we do for our other titles. In the near future we will come out with a publishing plan that will largely be driven by the strong player community that Vanguard has already built up. We plan on supporting Vanguard for many years to come, and you can expect many content updates as part of your subscription. Down the line we will of course be coming out with new expansion packs, but right now the focus is on making sure Vanguard is running the way it should be.

    We are also officially opening up forums. In the past, our deal with Sigil didn't allow for this, but as with our other games we fill this is an important part of communicating with the playerbase. You can expect a strong presence from our community team as well as the development team members. While we realize that Sigil had said they wouldn't open up general forums, at SOE we fill this hampers our efforts to communicate effectively with the players. We will continue to support the fansites in a big way, and will be contacting many of them directly to discuss what this change means. By no means do we want to lose the strong fansite support by making this change, but we do think it's important to have a forum for players to communicate directly with SOE.

    A few other items I wanted to mention

    1. Brad McQuaid will be consultant to SOE as a creative advisor for Vanguard. Dave Gilbertson will be the person directly responsible for the day-to-day management of both the Sigil Carlsbad office as well as Vanguard.

    2. We do not plan on making any major changes to Vanguard. Any changes are going to come from the team itself. We aren't mandating any big changes to the game. We've learned a thing or two with our experiences with the NGE and don't plan on repeating mistakes from the past and not listening to the players.

    3. We do plan on spending a lot of time cleaning up legacy issues with Vanguard and making sure the game's performance improves.

    By way of comparison, this team is approx. the same size as the EQ2 team and I feel like that team has done an amazing job improving EQ2 since it's launch. We intend to do the same thing for Vanguard and it is our hope that the players feel like we're doing right by them.


    Smed"


    I continued onward to DAoC's Hangout, The VNBoards. The game isn't getting any new life either.
    I am burnt out on EQ, solely because of the graphics and Auto-Atk Based Gameplay.


    Wherever shall we go?


    Haseno
    "Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
    I love my comma's, deal with it, chump.

  2. #2
    Rift Master
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    I am. I no longer play MMOs for the endgame. I play for the leveling experience and the lore, till I get bored and want to play something else, so I cancel for at the very least 6 months. After 6 months, I generally come back right where I left off and continue leveling or create a new character if my other character is max level and has completed all zones and their quests and all the max level 5 man dungeons at least 1 time. For Rift I got to level 30, and now I have canceled and have moved onto Guild Wars. I'll be back in 6 months or so and continue leveling up my character.

  3. #3
    Plane Touched DoozerJun's Avatar
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    I'm tired of them as well. I pretty much am sticking to single player and co-op games at this point. Gear grind raid progression just isn't fun anymore.

  4. #4
    Rift Master Marcato's Avatar
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    I was expecting some kind of grind but it was pretty disheartening to reach 50 and see just how many different token grinds there are and how long the rep grinds are going to take.

    That, and my class of choice (bard) being wholly uninteresting and weak has turned me off from the game somewhat.

  5. #5
    Sword of Telara Tuatha de Danaan's Avatar
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    I am. This is a good write up that mirrors my feelings.
    http://www.frogdice.com/muckbeast/ar...e-content.html
    Last edited by Tuatha de Danaan; 04-01-2011 at 06:48 AM.
    "On ne voit bien qu'avec le cur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux."
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  6. #6
    Rift Disciple Dewan's Avatar
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    when will endgame consist of actually exploring again? Such as exploring huge multilevel dungeons...where the top tiers you can solo but the further you go down the more difficult it got. Darkness falls comes to mind...though labyrinth in DAoC was a lagfest hell hole, its still a hell of a lot better and larger dungeon than you see in any other MMOs to date.
    Iscreamloudd Hib/Gawaine - RR10.5 Banshee
    Dewan Alb/Merlin - rr6 Cabby
    ...Smurff of Ywaine, rr7 Runie of Fenris.

  7. #7
    Telaran
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    We all are i think. When I expressed disappointment about the endless gear grinding end-game model RIFT had copied in general chat people told me there is literally nothing you can do with MMOs besides gear grinding and pvp grinding to keep subscribers. It's true though. We all complain about it but can't come up with a better end-game. The carrot on a stick keeps you going and paying. It's like gambling really.
    Last edited by aurora87; 04-01-2011 at 08:12 AM.

  8. #8
    Rift Disciple DantheDragon's Avatar
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    I used to love raiding, but that was also before I had my daughter. I wouldn't trade her for the world, but she makes it awfully hard to raid. I've always been someone who likes lore and discovery over fighting though. I'd love for there to be a far wider variety of things to do than to rep grind (which I don't that much honestly) raid or dungeon crawl at max level. (That's why I'm hoping for housing and more zones and such.) Something based on shorter bursts of playtime or solo content. And before you hit me with "It's an MMO!11!" I'd like to point out that the majority of you are more than happy to forget about the RP in that acronym. :P

  9. #9
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by DantheDragon View Post
    I used to love raiding, but that was also before I had my daughter. I wouldn't trade her for the world, but she makes it awfully hard to raid. I've always been someone who likes lore and discovery over fighting though. I'd love for there to be a far wider variety of things to do than to rep grind (which I don't that much honestly) raid or dungeon crawl at max level. (That's why I'm hoping for housing and more zones and such.) Something based on shorter bursts of playtime or solo content. And before you hit me with "It's an MMO!11!" I'd like to point out that the majority of you are more than happy to forget about the RP in that acronym. :P
    You can insert the RP to make yourself feel better, but it's still an MMO. There are plenty of console and other pc games that offer soloable content. Why pay for a game that requires you to group if you're not going to group? Feel free to waste your money though!

  10. #10
    Rift Master Solbranthius's Avatar
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    Player housing would make for an excellent and enjoyable alternate timesink. At the end of the day, we need more things to do at end game that doesn't consist of grinding the same warfronts/dungeons or raids over and over.

  11. #11
    Ascendant Haseno's Avatar
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    For me it isn't the content which makes this style of end-game so boring. But just how tedious it is. It's the overall feeling I get, and the low replay value. I would play games such as EQ or DAoC over and over again. Why? Because it actually felt tactical, adventurous, and fun.

    For some reason, this end-game model is just shallow in comparison. It's not even about nostalgia, it's about the actual gameplay. While Rift has many good things I enjoy, I feel that its lack of depth is pushing me away. It's a hard feeling to explain...but nonetheless these games aren't pulling me in anymore. I miss the adventure, and sense of community those games offered.


    Haseno
    "Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
    I love my comma's, deal with it, chump.

  12. #12
    Rift Master Solbranthius's Avatar
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    I always find the exploration and questing experience in an MMORPG to be the most enjoyable aspect of the game. It's usually exciting, with something new around the corner - assuming one can immerse themselves instead of rushing to complete things.

    Though at end game, we're usually restricted to doing the same content over and over. Yet at the same time, past content has a habit of rotting and remaining neglected.

    I'll continue playing Rift for the time being, but I'm definitely considering trying out some of the upcoming MMORPG's to see if they offer a new twist to something growing increasingly stagnant.

  13. #13
    Ascendant Haseno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solbranthius View Post
    I always find the exploration and questing experience in an MMORPG to be the most enjoyable aspect of the game. It's usually exciting, with something new around the corner - assuming one can immerse themselves instead of rushing to complete things.

    Though at end game, we're usually restricted to doing the same content over and over. Yet at the same time, past content has a habit of rotting and remaining neglected.

    I'll continue playing Rift for the time being, but I'm definitely considering trying out some of the upcoming MMORPG's to see if they offer a new twist to something growing increasingly stagnant.
    Maybe it's the linearity. Of how you proceed to the next area, and/or task. How it executes that "adventure." To me, I feel this is an underlying issue, but also a main contributor.

    Not solely because of quest markers, and quest hubs. But how it's kinda like this...

    NPC A = Has these items
    NPC A = Requires Tokens
    Proceed to Zone 1 = To collect tokens
    Rinse repeat
    Proceed to Zone 2 = collect tokens
    NPC B = Now accessible.

    Rifting does offer an escape of this, but that of itself is a grind. Due to the souls needed, notoriety, planarite. Etc. Rift isn't a bad game, it does do what it aims for, and does this very well. Maybe we're just more complex individuals (not in a bad way), and because of this we need a higher degree of depth, difficulty, and adventure.


    Haseno
    "Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
    I love my comma's, deal with it, chump.

  14. #14
    Rift Master Solbranthius's Avatar
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    I think it would be brilliant if questing was reserved to those who actually had the intention of doing some digging around. Instead of quest markers, a player would need to speak to an NPC, investigate a particular item or even just investigate an abandoned catacomb beneath a cemetary or something. It's classic RPG stuff, and I believe it needs to be brought back to bring the depth to an ailing genre.

  15. #15
    Rift Disciple Dewan's Avatar
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    I prefered back when MMOs didnt have an ingame map that told you where everything was....You were set off and you could chose your own path of how you wanted to level...It wasnt even that hard to get into the game and pick up and play....But today alot of players want the game to think for them for whatever reason, and have their hand held. Same goes with raiding, they want to be told what to do and where to go. Like i said before, part of the joy that was raiding was exploration, and just getting to the boss was part of the challenging part...these are some of the reasons why raiding is so boring and tedious today....its all the same thing over and over again, hop in dungeon, follow your map where it marks the boss and kill it, rinse and repeat.
    Iscreamloudd Hib/Gawaine - RR10.5 Banshee
    Dewan Alb/Merlin - rr6 Cabby
    ...Smurff of Ywaine, rr7 Runie of Fenris.

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