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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Official Feedback Thread: Collected Intel packs (currently off the store)

  1. #16
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    I have nothing against people who don't pay a cent and grind out plat for rex/patron/etc. I choose to pay for patron for the patron perks, I also choose to buy credit packs for the store stuff I like. However, even with those purchases, still I can't play 30-40 hours in a week and get anywhere NEAR what you can get by swiping your credit card. That's the first and biggest problem with these intel packs. Spend 10 seconds clicking purchase on each pack, and BOOM, you have just gotten more intel than most players can hope to get in a WEEK! There is no way you can define this as anything other than paying to have a HUGE advantage over less-rich players. The only time I've ever seen this before in the store was when you sold t1 raid gear bundles for ludicrous amounts of credits after tier 2 was in full swing. And that was only pay a lot to catch up to current. This is selling CURRENT tier. Those new jewelry RNG boxes came out ALONG WITH those intel boxes. Meaning that if I had a lot more money, I could have all my jewelry by now while my friends in game will have several weeks of grinding in front of them. That isn't right. I hope you can see that from this perspective.

    I kind of expect purchased captured intel caches will stay. But PLEASE for the love of god strongly consider the following:
    --- Weekly caps on currency MUST APPLY to the purchased caches, no matter how many credits can be spent.
    --- I honestly truly wish they will not go back on the store as a direct credits purchase at all. Continuing on...
    --- Purchased caches SHOULD NOT be available to multiple characters OR more than once per week, per region.
    --- You really absolutely should be putting in-game currency options there. Do you know how many celestial remnants and ethereal shards we don't know what to do with? This is, again, disregarding the play time a lot of people have put in to focus solely on people with deep wallets and high credit limits.
    --- If you want to make your customers who buy patron and credits feel valued, add them to the Affinity Store and/or the Prize Tickets store. We've already forked over money, how bout making it a reward instead of a direct cash purchase.

    I think the caches would cause a lot less uproar if they were ONLY available for in game currency. After all, celestial remnants, legion datagrams, and captured intel ARE lootable from the loot crates, and those DO still cost credits, so people can still buy currency.
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  2. #17
    Rift Disciple barrysneaks's Avatar
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    Thank you two for mentioning the jewelry in such a fashion. It hasn't been really pointed out in conversation at all and defenders seem to be conveniently and neglecting this point. Its an additional 55k per to purchase then upgrade each item, plus the frustrating RNG of getting preservers in that mix as well (which why hasn't this hideous idea been fixed yet?). It just added another 275k intel for players to grind.

    -You get 25 intel for running a dungeon (then bonuses bring it to ~50)
    -You get 50-70 intel for doing a non VP zone invasion (then bonuses)

    These values can probably be doubled or tripled safely and players still will never finish the intel grind. At the current cap it it will take players 7 weeks to finish the 2 rings 2 ears and neck. I wager players will need ~600-700k intel on their character with this new addition.

    Lastly, it would seem that the captured intel boosts have not been disabled from the packages. By having intel available in this fashion it it will now funnel players into purchasing those. In all honesty. So unless you want to be complicit in gambling this needs to be addressed:

    Step 1- Purchase intel via 100$ packs
    Step 2- Gamble on Boxes for Conq / Overlord stuff (even though the weight is on preserver and hero items)
    Step 3- spend over and over hoping to get

    I feel horrible for those who struggle to control their spending. Sadly this is a real thing for people and addiction is probably common throughout the MMO community. Conversely every single player here fully understands that it takes money to keep the lights on but please find more innovative ways to do it. If you are all out of ideas ask this amazing community- so many players still love rift no matter what it has become. Step out of your echo chamber and discuss with some.
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  3. #18
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    My 2 cents:

    Things like the power packs for 20 bucks are well worth it (imo), if for nothing else than things like the 40 slot bags that go to every character on the account. I care less about the mount, but the challenger's marks are a good way to get an alt a leg up gearwise at 70 (especially if you don't choose to dungeon crawl). I think the mummified pack that gave a credit bonus was also a good deal, and I wish that had also been implemented with the newest pack.

    The Dragon Hoard/Bogling Mount packs: I'm kind of on the fence here. 5M loyalty for 250 dollars could be worth it. The mounts, not so much (especially the random mount. For 250 dollars, it seems like the entire slate of premium mounts would have been a better bargain). Again, for 250 dollars, an amount of credits that could be applied would be a good idea, say 8-10k. I think pinning a wardrobe to a 250 dollar pack is excessive. I really wanted the back piece of that outfit, but I don't like it well enough to spend 250 dollars on it.

    Intel Caches: If someone chooses to spend money on the caches, that's on them. That being said, I really think that this particular grind is not something that should be able to be dodged by paying cash. I have specifically requested other means of being able to grind intel, but nowhere in those methods did I consider opening my wallet as a means of getting gear. If a currency cache is to be sold, let it be older currencies, for those playing catch up. Or offer all those currencies via weekly/daily quests and let us convert those old currencies to Intel.

    On a side note, I think this feedback thread is a good idea, and I hope that some of the feedback given here are implemented.
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  4. #19
    Prophet of Telara Mordrahan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madarablackgetsuga View Post
    Or keep the current packs now, remove the credit option and yeah, have a Ethereal Shard option and a Celestial Remnant option for each variant
    Or let the credit option, but add the game currency option, like LegitEle proposed.
    Would be begining of some catch-up mechanic for new/returning/casual players and alts, and make 65-70 content relevant even for 70's.

    I think credit option is OK, but ONLY if you have choice. And current grind is not choice.

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  5. #20
    Rift Chaser Rivkah's Avatar
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    I think a long overdue change that would help new players and alts catch up is to have all currencies added to an account 'wallet.' If you earn CI on an alt, it adds to your acct's CI total and you can pull from it on any character you choose that's on your acct. This would be a great QoL change for everyone.

    I honestly don't think there ever should be a cash-for-endgame currency system in this game as it runs counter to the initial promise that we will never have to pay for power. I also have a huge problem with the fact that the purchased CI could exceed weekly caps, whereas F2Players remain limited. If you are to implement something like this again, lift the CI cap for the duration the cache is on sale as well to make it so a F2Player can earn the same amount per week as a whale. Also present an option where players can purchase them for in game currencies as was previously suggested.
    Last edited by Marana tha; 12-10-2017 at 08:02 AM. Reason: Mod Note: Edited to reflect thread changes

  6. #21
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    My thoughts on buying currency:
    I think buying currency, no matter what tier of content it is for, is not a good thing for Rift. We have token boosts that effectively allow us to get more out of the content we do play. If anything, boosting the amount of currency awarded by content will make those token boosts more powerful.

    If currency is going to be sold, then lift the cap and adjust the drop rate so that someone who spends $20 on token boosts and plays for 16 hours in a week is slightly ahead of someone who spends $100 and plays for 2 hours a week.

    The reward, IMHO, should always be better for those who invest time over money, and the money option vs. time option should be balanced this way.
    Last edited by Marana tha; 12-10-2017 at 08:02 AM. Reason: Mod Note: Edited to reflect thread changes
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  7. #22
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    just going to c/p what I said in other threads and commentate

    selling world currency is tantamount to advertising that a game isn't fun

    so there's that
    What I mean by this is, by giving people an "option" or a "choice" to avoid playing your game, you're saying that your game isn't worth playing. And if you tell me your game isn't worth playing such that I would pay to avoid playing it, I might as well not play it at all for free.

    And yeah I get the time:money balance thing, but if your game requires so much grinding that the only way a time-poor player can keep up with nolifers is by paying, then the corollary is that the only way a cash-poor player can keep up with payers is by nolifing, and you've created a vicious cycle. I can't think of a faster way of bleeding players than grind hell, except by combining Tedious+Difficult+Expensive in a poison trifecta.

    Honestly I think this is a step in the right direction. Sure it's flawed, the captured intel issue for one is legitimate grounds for complaint, but props to the team for trying something different from yet more funsucking joykilling lootbox filth. Yeah $250 is out of my price range, but that's my problem and I'm not going to act like a brat about it. And while the current event mount isn't my thing at all, I probably would've scraped together the hunjie for the broom had the option existed, especially with the 5x loyalty.

    Fact is, a person could spend $100 or $250 or even more on lootboxes and not get the thing they want. That's a big part of my problem with lootboxes, they're shady af. At least with these packs, there's an honest, direct transaction. You make the thing, I want the thing, I give you money, you give me the thing.

    I do think the price points are way too high and need adjusting, though in general I think Rift is notably expensive in the F2P world. I mean even compared to the other Trion games I've played, Rift is blastpodding expensive. I for one would spend more overall at lower price points. Like the mount Power Packs, if they were $10 I would've bought four by now, but at $20 I've bought one, and the deciding factor for that was the included credits and patron time.

    I also think the Dragon's Hoard pack in particular would benefit from the outfit and mount being clearly previewed in the store. How the Endless Eclipse am I supposed to know I want the thing you made if I can't see what it is? I have mixed feelings about the included mount crate, on one hand yes good you will definitely get a premium mount and not a soulbound XP pot that's zero use to your lv 70 char, on the other hand enough already with the RNG, let us choose to buy what we want and be done with it. If it worked like, say, the skill boost scrolls, where using the item procs a "quest" where you choose which thing you want, that'd be cool.

    I mean realistically, lootboxes are becoming radioactive fast, and in my more cynical moments I'd say that's what's motivated the rollout of the new packs, not player feedback. If you keep up with industry news this isn't an unexpected development. But even at my most cynical it doesn't matter why, as long as Rift continues to trend toward more honest monetisation.
    To briefly expand on the power pack example regarding the price point problem, I was looking at buying some credits for Autumn Harvest because Halloween is Goth Christmas and I wanted to buy All The Things (and I'm not going to rehash the complaints about how that played out) and I figured I could spend $20 and get however many credits, or I could spend $20 and get slightly less credits but also some patron time and a spoopy mount, and altogether that was definitely worth $20 to me. The mounts on their own are not generally $20 worth of compelling/exciting to me and the stuff they're bundled with is usually no use to me. I'm not fully raid geared or anything but I'm a longtime player fairly deep into endgame so autoscaling items are invariably downgrades that just scream waste of money. The 40-slot bag with the current pack is pretty good, but it's unique equip so that isn't going to sell anyone a second power pack later down the line. That useless filler would be less of a concern at a $10 price point.

    Anyway back to the main topic, as I said the captured intel issue is grounds for legitimate complaint. Including them in the packs is arguably a greyish fuzzy area, if the packs are limited and it's a onetime offer and future packs would have something else like affinity/credits/patron time/prize tickets/charges/PRI/kitten snuggles/etc. instead then, well, eeeeehhh still a bit dodgy but ok.

    However putting endgame currency up for recurring sale for cash, in addition to admitting that endgame isn't worth playing, has undeniably opened a path by which people can spend money to obtain and upgrade high level items without playing. Now if that's the direction you want to take Rift in, that's your prerogative, but I will remind you that negative sentiment towards pay-to-win is at an all time high right now.

    I don't doubt the team has been watching the Space Game debacle continue to unfold, as have we all, and I genuinely hope that this is all part of an honest attempt to adapt to the changing winds. And yeah the reality is that some people don't care, some people will always be happy with pay to win, and if they're spending enough to support the team & keep the game alive, and you're ok with that, far be it for I to tell you how to run your business. But I somehow think it's not enough, and I still believe in the team's sense of integrity and overall wish to run a fun game. People will pay to play a fun game, I promise.

    BTW, thinking of players as "minnows" and "dolphins" and "whales" is so dehumanising, not just to the players but also to the devs, and moreover do you not remember why actual whale hunting was banned? BECAUSE THE WHALES WERE GOING EXTINCT FROM OVERHUNTING. The metaphor will carry, mark my words.

    So that's my advice, if you want it. End whale hunting, roll back the grind, adjust the price points, ditch the lootboxes, and most importantly of all make the game fun again.
    Last edited by Phaeth; 12-10-2017 at 09:43 AM.

  8. #23
    Prophet of Telara aileen's Avatar
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    I asked Archonix on cuddles stream exact what Soulghosts (LegitEle) suggested here and ghar station discord his reply was:

    Archonix: We're talking about that currently. I can't say that it'll be ethereal shards, but I would like to get some caches in as an option for in-game currency
    Archonix: Specially for the ones that allow you to bypass weekly caps
    Archonix: We're also not 100% set in stone in keeping the credit ones as is. We're keeping a close eye on feedback for sure
    I surely think none of the ingame currencies shouldn't be available on store with real life money, like Clowd mentioned there is already so many boosts available, selling currency means hey you should gain this currency for playing our game but hey buddy what about buying it and don't play our game? like I said on that topic who isn't playing endgame were saying that packs are okay to sell, this is clear insult to players who is grinding hours and hours, if we start selling currency on store lets start selling boss kills, achievements too because it's not different this is clearly same as either don't play game and get currency like don't play game but claim the accomplishments.

    Currency exchanges should be considered and should still count toward weekly caps as well, that way players still can do older content and help new players for their progress ingame same for their gearing progress too.

    I also believe the expert rewards for current dungeons should be applied to previous expansion dungeons and normal dungeons to let them be related ingame, that will increase flow of content done ingame.

    Weekly quest for doing Xarth Mire events should be replaced for zone events done on Celestial lands, previous expansions we had such quests as well.

    Upgrade component for accessories should either be changed and fresh component added or price of current component should be lowered, 55k intel for 1 gear is ridicilious specially when they have suffixes.

    I'll say this again, yes catch-up mechanics should be added to game, certain quests, prices etc for gearing toward into endgame should be reworked but no matter what none of the ingame currencies shouldn't be available on store for cash.

    Current grinds, pricing like I said on other topic costed many endgame raiders left game also not only grinds but state of bugs etc, we as players and team can work together and rebuild this game as long as logical steps taken. I'm personally can help, test any time wanted.
    Last edited by Marana tha; 12-10-2017 at 08:01 AM. Reason: Mod Note: Edited to reflect thread changes
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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by barrysneaks View Post
    These values can probably be doubled or tripled safely
    Yes thank you for bringing up this point -- I had meant to add that in to one of my suggestions but forgot in my zeal to edit my post into the most constructive feedback possible. I had only considered double but yeah you're probably right with even triple.
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  10. #25
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    Super long grinds seem to be the theme of this expansion. Having a way to bypass it with credits seems like paying to solve a problem the game itself created, which never feels good.


    Adding CI to other activities is a good step. Being able to convert other currencies would help also. Let us advance our characters by doing whatever end game stuff we find fun.
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  11. #26
    Plane Touched Escadora's Avatar
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    Default Loyalty to "Currency" - Captured Intel

    I sincerely pray to the "gamer gods" that Captured intel stay disabled/removed from purchase.

    Side note: I respect everyone's way/style of play, but I'm most respectful toward grind. Grind creates skill and a sharper mindset for raids and all other content that requires special "Marks".

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  12. #27
    Sword of Telara Refuge's Avatar
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    I doubt this had anything to do with "listening to the community", so I'm personally not going to fall for that.

    They knew the rage it would bring to the game, they basically implemented P2W currency, the backlash was predictable. More likely they experimented to see how many would commit to it, or at least give a temporary boost to income. But as a result I wouldn't be surprised if such a move loses more potential spenders. It's consistently short term boosts, with long term falls. And they know this without doubt, but they continue to persist.

    I just hope they keep these off the shop permanently, or allow other in game currencies to be exchanged for them, then they'll have me sticking around for a while longer.
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  13. #28
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    Default A Generic Currency

    I had a thought over the weekend about currency in general. Right now, it seems like there are so many different kinds and it's kinda hard to keep track of it all. Tower Fragments, Void Stones, Celestial Remnants, Ethereal Shards, Captured Intel, Legion Datagrams, Planarite, etc. I also have some Affinity Points and some Prize Tickets. ACK! And I'm sure some of us have old currencies too that have not yet disappeared. I think I have Infinity Stones, even.

    I thought perhaps it might be nice to introduce a permanent generic currency. Say Ascended Coins. I'm not sure exactly how to let the coins purchase things (like equipment, or Tenebrean Engines, or Prize Ticket type stuff). But these coins could possibly be the "catch up coinage" that would allow folks who have more money than time to grab some gear. Additionally - and I think this is the great part - the Trion team can use this currency to get rid of all the other stuff! For example once tier2 is introduced - tier1 coinage can be used to purchase Ascended Coin (at a kinda high rate). When tier3 is introduced tier2 coinage can be used to purchased Ascended Coin (at a kinda high rate) and tier1 now buys more. All along, things like Void Stones can be used to buy Ascended Coin (but at a pretty high rate).

    I like this idea because it puts multiple ways in for a player to do their own thing - for example allowing a PVPer to supplement their favor purchased gear by using Ascended Coin (acquired w/ real cash, acquired with void stone, or otherwise acquired) to buy another piece. This allows the Dev team the ability to dynamically manage the value of things as we progress through an expansion - Buying Tenebrean Engines should cost less Ascended Coin now, and Storm Cells should go up soon but at a high price, for example. And finally, this will allow us to get rid of all that old currency.

    My thought here is not fully fleshed out. I'm sure it would involve a lot of math, but something something... engineers and computer designers are good at math. Anyway, two cents thrown out for fun.
    Last edited by SonoMoenia; 12-11-2017 at 09:41 AM.

  14. #29
    Shield of Telara Necalli's Avatar
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    Player power should never be for sale on the store. The minute you begin to sell that on the store is the minute the game becomes meaningless and by doing such the team sends a clear message to the community that the team doesn't value the time their supporters are putting into the game.

    Beyond that though it creates a new incentive for the team to create content (RNG, excessive time gating, rep, grinding) that further pushes players into buying their power with their wallet instead of with an investment into the game.

    The deep irony of all of this is, why would anyone even want to buy power? So they can do the non-existent raiding? The broken PvP? Boring open world content? There's no reason to buy the power to start, then when you do buy it the content the team just pushes terrible content that is broken and won't be fixed or playable for 3 months, but you can buy the new raid gear.

    This is exactly the thing we've been railing against since the transition to f2p back in SL. We've been warning it was coming, we've been pointing directly at the slippery slope and highlighting exactly what would happen.

    I personally refuse to give money to a team that is willing to sell player power. It shows an absolute lack of respect for the player base and their time and money.

  15. #30
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    So long this expansion has so little in content. Everything is locked into a wall of grinding. When you stop a grind you have to start another one. And I do not mean small 2-3 days grinds but months of grinding.

    Let's take the eternal for example. You have to mindlesly close rifts and defeat invasions up to the point you have to level wicket. You also need 1000 cosmic things. 2 HUGE grinds right there! About 1 month or more for wicket and another who-knows-how-long for the cosmics. Let's say this is ok, then comes 100 dungeons, ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Then at the end of the eternal you need 16 raids in which you can only do once per week. 16 weeks = 4 months!

    Seriously Trion? 4 months? To reach that point you would need AT LEAST 2-3 months and then another 4. About a year for a weapon?

    Then we move to every other grind. HUGE planarite farm, HUGE celestial farm, HUGE.... HUGE.... HUGE....

    Am I playing a game for fun or am I playing a game to just grind old content? Then we move to CI which you can take 25-50 at most. As some1 mentioned, you need about 500k for end-game... The only way you can have your "fun" is by sticking your hand deep into your wallet and buy your way to the currencies and items you need to upgrade.

    Locations are difficult, packed with elites and monsters. I get that VP is the centre of it all but it just becomes irritating to not be able to do you dailies alone, unless you want to spend hours everyday doing them.

    The fact is that when 5.0 comes out, all our grinds would most probably be in vain and we will have to start all over again. Grind is not bad if done correctly but, from all the games and MMOs I have played, you have made the worst grind available in all (Achievement unlocked).

    Rift was an epic RPG, fun, progressive... You just made it so that people end up abandoning the grind and the game altogether. I wonder how much the player base has dropped...

    Peace out!
    Last edited by CreationP; 12-11-2017 at 02:24 PM.

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