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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Patron rewards get even BETTER!

  1. #151
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    - queuing for specific Warfronts
    Whelp, my efforts to get back into Rift are dead. Trying to get back into Rift, and I'm often in the mood to run Library of Runemasters specifically cause it reminds me of my favorite Rift years.

    I realize you have to raise revenue, but this has rubbed me wrong, and I do not plan on spending any money on patron/credits if these changes go into effect. At the start, I loved the Rift f2p model, but I guess it was only good at the start, and Trion planned to degrade the quality all along.

  2. #152
    Champion of Telara Ongar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray View Post
    - patron always meant you have less to grind, not that it removes grind completely (and there are people that complain if they don't have to grind anything)
    - pugging has nothing to do with being patron , that's a problem with the current game design and community in general (alts are too expensive/time consuming, people are less open to deal with randoms etc.).
    - doesn't have anything to do with patron either, raiding requires an organized group because of it's difficulty and how rewards are awarded. flex raids wouldn't change that, would just make organizing it easier.
    MMOs that are pay to play/raid have created an inclusive enviroment via per boss loot lockouts, multiple difficulties that can cater to casuals/casual hardcores/hardcores, manual and automatic matchmaking, a reduction of certain encounter mechanics that are outright anti-pug, easy to get current tier starter gear, low costs for raiding consumables, low costs for gear upgrades and so on and so forth.
    The attitude is like "you pay us, you are part of the endgame club".

    Now Rift gets closer to the business model of those MMOs, but has created an enviroment over the last 5 years that is extremely exclusive, because they didnt follow the competition and didnt do the necessary steps to make it inclusive.
    I doubt people will pay for unlocks and monthly fees only to find out that they are eventually still not part of that endgame club: "LFM outdated Tier 1 raid, 300 hit Xtra and rapid assault achie plx or no response."

    And thats the problem of these changes. You dont attract new players from the outside as they are used to a more inclusive endgame enviroment elsewhere. And the existing playerbase wont be too happy either as they and their friends have to pay for features that used to be free.

    Catering to the expectations of players from the outside (a more inclusive endgame enviroment etc.) and also the existing playerbase (less grind etc.) would have been the right way to go. And such improvements could have been monetized. If you take, you also need to give.
    Last edited by Ongar; 02-05-2016 at 09:31 AM.

  3. #153
    Soulwalker jarrettwold's Avatar
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    I wish Trion good luck with the future of the game, and hopefully these changes pan out for Trion. Unfortunately, this just seems like one change too many for me to invest further time (or money) into the game.

  4. #154
    Ascendant Crithappens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    50% reduced Auction House fees and commissions
    Sell your hard-earned items and harvestables on the Auction House, for more profit than ever before!
    The ability to get Patron time is now infinitely self-sustainable.
    Rahka@Wolfsbane

  5. #155
    Telaran
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    As far as que times, you have no excuse. I que at all hours of the day, different days of the week and is never more than about 2 minutes for level 65 warfronts. Even at 3 am. This seems like a perfectly acceptable amount of time to wait, even as much as 15 mins would still be, although I've not seen any near this long.

    I wonder what the real reasoning behind this is? And I would hope that the warfront weekly is changed to be 7 wins in any map, instead of specific maps if non-patrons cant specific que.

    This has to be the most horrendous decision I have seen so far to influence me as to whether or not to find a new brand of entertainment.

  6. #156
    Plane Touched Ahnani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crithappens View Post
    The ability to get Patron time is now infinitely self-sustainable.
    Not if people stop buying REX because they have all left the game... or it gets so high in price that people won't buy it.. just saying.
    Last edited by Ahnani; 02-05-2016 at 09:49 AM.

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  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosbringer12 View Post
    As one of the few people who defended the whole earring slot change... even I have to admit this one isn't a good idea. That being said I agree with what was said above. Don't take away from the free players if you can help it. Allow them to keep the stuff they already have. a few extra things to add to it:

    - Allow patrons to have higher stacks of random dungeon/warfront charges.
    - Allow higher weekly caps along with the first point. This would allow patrons to gear up alts faster which we'd be paying money for at that point anyway. A lot of people like to play alts, but gearing (not to mention runes) is very time consuming with nightmare tide.
    - If there aren't already current plans to make this change, allow patrons to trade over void stones between characters. Again this would make the first first 2 points.
    - Fluff! Fluff is always a nice bonus to have. Eye glows, more weapon glows including the PA 50 quest faction exclusive glows ect.
    These are great suggestions and are far better than taking things away from non-patrons. You will lose them.

  8. #158
    Ascendant Artewig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    RIFT, or any MMO for that matter, is a lot like a series of buckets. These buckets are the various activities in RIFT, things like Warfronts and Dungeons and IAs. All these activities are more fun when there are more people participating in various activities (i.e. more water in each bucket).

    With charges stacking a lot of folks save them up and burn them all at once, so on those days buckets are really full. But since folks then burn off a lot of charges, the amount of liquid flowing into each bucket slows for the rest of the week. That means slower queues and it's harder to form groups.

    Same sort of thing with selecting individual warfronts or dungeons. When you're all mixed in the big bucket, things flow nicely and everyone has a better time. The more small buckets you have, the less likely things will be spread out evenly and everything runs a little less efficiently.

    That's a huge part of the reason for these changes. But, if for some reason we find it's not as effective as it should be on paper, then there is a possibility that something like this may be reconsidered or attempted in a different way in the future. This isn't just about Patron, but about improving RIFT overall.

    Thanks,
    Quote Originally Posted by TrionBrasse
    We are absolutely a service industry and you're only as good as your last contact with the customer.

  9. #159
    Champion of Telara Ongar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkelley393 View Post

    I have less reason than ever to resub, now that my friends are being driven out of the game. This just seems like such a horrible decision all the way around because of the reaons other posters have already listed! Obviously Trion now feels that, once upon a time, they gave players too much for free. Many players feel that way too. Now Trion has taken back what they had once given, and you have to pay to get it back. Instead of making more things people want to pay for, they just keep taking away from people who haven't paid or aren't currently paying. Want to make the game impossible to play without a sub? Fine, do it already and own it! Just make it something WORTH subbing to!!

    I want to see RIFT made healthy, sustianable, profitable, and enjoyable, and I accept that such would probably cost us some growing pains.

    But these are not growing pains. These are shrinking pains.
    I think in order to make it more sustainable, profitable etc. they should have gone for a standard F2P model with a mix of sidegrades and cosmetics in the shop. Sidegrades mean that you can have a little advantage in certain situations, but not to a degree that it gets unfair.

    Rifts F2P started out with an appeasement strategy for the top end (best gear not in the shop), while putting the burden on people that want to catchup. As there are not that many people catching up in this game to the higher tiers of raiding anyway, the burden got moved around to the top end (the costs of raiding). Now we see the burden get moved to players that enjoy warfronts, dungeons etc or do them to stay competititive for raiding.

    I think this moving around of burdens wont work in the long run.
    Either go for a standard F2P model with sidegrades or outright B2P xpacs. Share the burden, because a shared burden is a small burden.

  10. #160
    Telaran
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    Every day I see this game becoming more and more like City of Steam and you can go check where that game is at now.

    I would personnely like to see doing away with all cash shops and just pay $15 a month to play.

    Other wise I am starting to think that Rift and Trion are on their last legs.

  11. #161
    Plane Touched Ahnani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artewig View Post
    Oh gods.. so cute.. you sir, win the Internet for today...


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  12. #162
    Plane Touched jkelley393's Avatar
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    When I read the announcement, my first reaction was anger, and I know a lot of other players, both patron and non-patron, felt the same way.

    I am trying really hard to see what makes Trion think this is going to work, and I'll share my conclusion: It's a new RIFT, for a new generation. Trion is not unaware that this will drive many players away rather than forcing them to pay.

    I've always thought that Patron, as it was, was a great value for players with certain goals (leveling up, grinding currency for gear, etc) but you can live without it. Now, you really just can't. Casuals are being shown the door. I do foresee a time when there will be more Patrons in game than non-Patrons, IF the game survives the transition. What used to be a good value to many will now be indispensable for most players. Not because they made Patron so good, but because not having it is so bad.

    I don't like it. I mean, I REALLY don't like it. I think there were better alternatives, but this is the path they've chosen. If RIFT survives the transition, then I think we will see a higher percentage of players who financially support the game than in the past. However, I think this will cause the player base to continue to shrink, not grow. Why? Because Trion isn't adding appeal to RIFT with these changes, they're taking it away. A higher percentage of a lower number could still doom the game.

    My opinion remains the same however - making the game grow is always going to involve CREATING something new, not rehashing the same old stuff and certainly not taking something away.

    EDIT:

    Also, inb4 Auction House fees skyrocket for non-patrons, to the point where there's no point trying to use the AH to sell stuff.
    Last edited by jkelley393; 02-05-2016 at 10:55 AM.

  13. #163
    Shield of Telara Necalli's Avatar
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    I've been saying it for a while now, and I'll say it again. Go pay to play. I will happily pay for zones, sagas, and expansions over patron, lock boxes, and player power.

    I posted this example a while ago on the for another thread but I'll post it again.

    So, lets go back to the buying expansions framework. No monthly subs required, but patron still exist as it does now. Make all content free up to the most recent expansion (so Chocolate and SL would be free to play and level to 60) and then the PoW and PW:W are unlocked when you buy one of the PoW packs (typhoon, infused, ultimate nightmare). If you wanted to you could create new sets of packs too that tie the dream souls and the primalist unlocks into said packs.

    To give you an example of what I'm talking about let's say Jonny Awesome starts right now. He logs in and makes a Rogue with the base 8 souls. Doesn't put a penny down. He gets a set of earrings by level 6 and equips them. Jonny hasn't been punished by not making a decision by level 6 on whether he wants to spend money on the game yet.

    As he continues to level he's able to queue for dungeons and warfronts he wants to try and doesn't have to keep random queuing all day and play in ones he already know if he enjoys or not. He gains regular resting XP while he logs out to help keep him motivated, and if he can't log in one day because he had to work late or he had a family problem he isn't punished by missing a charge on his warfronts of dungeons.

    Some time passes and he reaches level 60. He now has full access to his 8 trees, he has had the opportunity to play in IAs, instances, zone events, promo events, quest lines, and possibly raids. He has developed a solid opinion by this point if he wants to keep playing and invest money into the game.

    Once he reaches level 60 he is greeted by a screen prompt saying something to the effect of "Congratulations on reaching level 60! Continue your adventure by purchasing our Nightmare Tide expansion!" At this point Jonny can choose to continue on in Rift or decide it's not to his tastes and quit. If Jonny does decide to continue he's taken to a screen with a variety of choices for expansion packs. While looking at the packs he sees that he has the ability to not only buy the expansion but to unlock two additional souls for his class, or maybe even access a new calling all together.

    At this point Jonny decides that he has enjoyed playing his Rogue and unlocking the healing soul for his calling sounds cool. So Jonny picks the most basic Nightmare Tide pack with the dream souls. He logs back in and is greeted by a new quest that takes him to the Plane of Water.

    I would much rather outright spend $35+ for a new expansion and it's content to support the staff versus having a bunch of small little $5 - $10 paywalls littered all over the game. I absolutely loathe being nickled and dimed to death by a company. Nothing says pay to win or money grubbing faster than tons of paywalls.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Hello all,

    <snip>

    The changes outlined today may also provide an additional benefit; we anticipate that they create more opportunities for playing together for all players. For instance, instead of spending all their charges on a single day of the week, a non-Patron will need to log in each day to get the benefits of their charges. This increases the average number of people participating in any given activity every day of the week, meaning shorter queue times and more people to play with. Similarly, by placing more people in random queues, queue times as a whole will shorten as the system has more players to work with in order to make appropriate teams.

    <snip>

    These are of course beneficial and convenient, but not necessary in order to play RIFT. Therefore, they are the sort of thing we believe should be reserved for Patrons. When we reviewed RIFT as a whole this year, we identified this as an area we had overlooked previously.

    <snip>

    The RIFT Team
    This is possibly the weakest, worst thought out, pathetic bit of justification I think I've ever seen on these forums, and as I mainly read the PvP and rogue forums, that's a pretty damning indictment.

    What next? Mounts? You don't need them to play, they're just beneficial and convenient. Ditto banks, guild membership, ability to use pots/general consumables, 90% of the porticulums, well you get my drift. Surely they wouldn't put those kinds of things behind a paywall? Would they? Would they?

    I honestly can't think of any response to the latest changes as a whole that wouldn't get me instantly banned for expressing them. So I'll just leave it at: 'Way to go, Trion. Good job.'.

  15. #165
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    As a Patron these changes will obviously mean I get a tremendous advantage, and initially reading I was happy. However, perhaps I could suggest in terms of the limitations the following could be applied;

    Make the Stacking warfront charges two tier - can stack 5 if you achieve x-loyalty, put it at a point in green tier equivalent to say 3 rex? That way its a one off investment that people can make if they choose to. Along with this give the rested XP and the ability to do targeted dungeons.

    Give a higher number of stacks to patrons, or better still give patrons a charge pool - 2 charges gained per day with a cap of 14 or even 20 and you can choose dungeon OR warfront - play it your way as the trion slogan used to say.

    This would exclude less people - it would admittedly probably initially generate less revenue as it would be open for those who have already given you money, but Patrons really want to see you give them something which they DIDNT have before, no take it away from the others.

    They came for the free to players but I said nothing, for I was a Patron, really shouldn't be something we see in the forums in a months time.
    You are entitled to a vomit bag, if you do not have one, one will be provided for you. We're strapped for cash so it may be used, barf carefully!

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