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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Last Chance to Get Earring Slot Unlocks and Planewalker: Water with Voidstones!

  1. #151
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Ultimately this is a business decision, to best support RIFT moving forward into the future. We're on the cusp right now of RIFT's 5th Anniversary, and we've got great stuff planned for 2016. But that stuff takes Engineers and Designers and CS and QA and a whole lot of other folks.

    Having a large team producing amazing things is a benefit to everyone who loves RIFT, both those making it and those who play it. But making games like RIFT is expensive. and so we need to sell things in game to pay those folks. We try to offer a variety of services that appeal to a broad selection of folks. Sometimes we try one thing, sometimes we try another. But it's always a learning experience.

    Both Earring Slots and Planewalker: Water went through a number of iterations during development before release, and when Nightmare Tide did release we decided at that time to allow them to be acquired via either a substantial investment of time via Voidstones or with purchase of a Nightmare Tide Collectors Edition. It's been over a year now since that release, and the team has decided to move in a slightly different direction with these unlocks.

    With the current system, at level 65 I can probably grind out the cost faster via purchasing a REX for in game currency than I could earn the requisite Voidstones. I've spent money on RIFT so I don't have to worry about the currency cap, and REX prices on NA have dropped a little recently which helps, but ultimately there still exists an avenue where players can turn in game effort into credits to acquire these items.

    We are definitely listening, and want your feedback on this decision. As a result of one post for example we'll be allowing gifting on these items so you can gift them to a friend if you so desire. Your feedback is being read by people at every level here at Trion, and is taken into account so please keep it coming. The one thing we ask is that even if you disagree that you avoid personal attacks, otherwise any sort of dialog on this choice breaks down.
    You've made Rift pay to win, simple as that. What was once obtainable via hard work is now only obtainable if someone ponies up $25 or more.

    I'm now starting to regret having spent money on Rift, seeing as how it's gone against its core tenet from when it went free to play.

    Reverse this terrible, terrible decision, seeing as how you have 11+ pages of people telling you how poor this choice is.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    I'll investigate this a bit further. My understanding is the credit purchase would be an account wide unlock, but I'll have to verify.
    I would hope so. Earring slots and Planewalker: Water purchased with Void Stones today apply account wide. I would be very disappointed if those purchased for Credits are not the same.

    Making Earring Slots and Planewalker: Water available directly for credits, outside of the collector packages, is a win. Players have been asking for this because maybe they don't want or need the titles, mounts, etc. that are included in the packages. They just want or need these 2 things that are part of gearing up in Nightmare Tide. And yes, for many it is easier to grind out the plat needed for the Credits than to accumulate the void stones.

    However I do not agree with removing the ability to purchase these with void stones.
    I'll join the chorus, this is a bad idea and makes Rift officially Pay to Win, because you can no longer progress beyond a certain point in the game without spending Credits (via your own money, REX, or Credit seller). Without these, you won't be able to gear up past a certain point in raiding. Simply adding a credit price to these, with the ability to gift them, makes them like the accelerators we have had since the beginning of Nightmare Tide: available for world / dungeon / raid currencies like void stones and abyssal crusader marks, or credits, player choice. Keep them independent of the Rex / Credit / plat market.
    Last edited by mashata; 01-26-2016 at 12:14 PM.

  3. #153
    Soulwalker hayBREEE's Avatar
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    Default Bad idea

    This is a really bad idea.

    I know most people at 65 have already earned or purchased these items (which is a necessity to progress in end game content) but something like this will drive any new players away.
    It's already too much on new players to not only have to grind out what they have to as it is to be viable in end game, but to also force them to spend money or grind some more for plat just to get there is too much. New players are the least likely to spend money on things like this.
    It's also an overwhelmingly large sum of money required for it.

    Such a near necessity for people at end game NEEDS to be obtained through both options of free and paid or you might as well just blatantly change your business model to "Pay to win"
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  4. #154
    General of Telara
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    This business decision was a short sighted one. Whats the point of expanding the engineering team to make more content when you don't have a player base to enjoy it.

    This decision will reduce the inflow of new players and will push others to quit because of the greed being displayed. So we lose players and can't replace them with new players because they are put off by the fact that Rift now has paywalls for content. Furthermore the word will get around and Trion's reputation, battered as it is already will take another hit. Announcing something as important as this less than 2 days before patching is very, very bad.

    You could make loads of money from cosmetics but you CHOSE to do this. 5 year subbed player right here who is getting less likely to resub for the first time ever.

    Oh and also I am sorry Ocho you are having to deal with the brunt of all this. I know it wasn't your decision but you have to deal with the fallout which isn't fun.

  5. #155
    General of Telara Sheo's Avatar
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    Having a large team producing amazing things is a benefit to everyone who loves RIFT, both those making it and those who play it. But making games like RIFT is expensive. and so we need to sell things in game to pay those folks. We try to offer a variety of services that appeal to a broad selection of folks. Sometimes we try one thing, sometimes we try another. But it's always a learning experience.

    Maybe if the content would be not neglected, bugs and glitches would be fixed, lag decreased, pvp progression restored, souls balanced and re-worked (seriously some souls didn't get any update since NT started or longer), ranged vs melee balanced, Elo and matchmaking problems adjusted, new content not ****** and with less bugs, RNG adjusted, we would buy credits on our own, and you shouldn't force money spending like this.

    I would be happy to come back if you would look into pvp and turn it back in SL direction. And I know a lot more who would come back.

    I`m on a waiting list and no more patron for trion. Maybe 4.0 bring something better for me.
    Sheona/Faynee <VANEN> , <Apotheosys>

  6. #156
    Plane Touched Meliannia's Avatar
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    ERROR 37 bringing in a paywall
    ERROR 37 bringing in a paywall

    Did one of the hamsters get loose at Trion??

    You are going to LOSE WAY MORE CASH MONEY REAL DOLLAR MONEY from Cancelled Subscription, than new ppl buying the earrings slots! can;'t u see that/? THE MONTHS of now lost patrons, will far outweigh a one time earring purchase by however few new players remaining in game not driven away by this shizzle! Do the maths!

    And TWO DAYS warjning was COWARDLY, and what about the poor sods who have 78 to 90K VS thru hard grind these last months??/ WHAT ABOUT THEM!!!

    AT THE VERY LEAST, give the community a TWO WEEK deadline, AND ALSO make any Voidstones for earring locked players redeemable as a % of the 2250 Creds.

    So if a guy worked his butt off and got 75k VS that's 75% of 100K Vs, 75% of 2250 Creds is 1687 Creds given towards his earring unlock purchase.So he can get the earrings for 563 creds, he doesn't feel as cheated and u r likely to get MORE PURCHASES. People would not then feel so BETRAYED and ANGRY, u have taken away weeks oif ppls time and given them FECK ALL. The people who are close to 100K VS shud be allowed time to get it or some financial recompense towards earring cost, that's how a good company treats those who love and play the game loyally. U don't **** on everyone from a great height. Write that down.

    When u have driven away all new players, and shards empty, shards merge, language and basic communication an appallling mess in EU, Pvp PVE mess, and every1 has gone, who is going to be left to use a Scroll of Resurrection on YOU, Trion?

    Trion, you used to be David, we all loved and supported u, u were the David vs the Goliath that is WoW. But nowadays you are acting more like Goliath and a LOT less like David.

    Give TWO weeks window, and Give some Compensation for those who have 50k VS to 90K

    Lost me 4 Lev 65 guildys this evening, u shuns off bishies, hard enough to survive on PvP shard in EU at best of times without this PUTRID BS.

    ERROR 996. Do not want to log back into game!

  7. #157
    Champion of Telara McChaffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balidin View Post
    You could make loads of money from cosmetics but you CHOSE to do this. 5 year subbed player right here who is getting less likely to resub for the first time ever.
    Trion could make a killing if they invested more into cosmetics and wadrobe.
    Everything after Storm Legion was a mistake. ()

  8. #158
    Telaran
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    At the launch of F2P, Trion PROMISED us that gear would not be hidden behind a paywall.

    What do they have to say of this new change?

    Seriously, Trion, this is a terrible idea all around.

    If you guys are having trouble making capital, please consider these options instead:

    -Most of us that wholly enjoy the game would not mind a buy-to-play model for expansions, especially if it meant avoiding this horrible idea.

    -Instead of putting mounts into those godawful gamble boxes, make them buyable in the store and giftable. Honestly, the new mounts are awesome but I never buy the boxes they come in because the odds of it dropping are slim. You'd make a lot more money via Gifters and people that simply want X mount if you could directly purchase them.

    -I personally have always wanted the ability to upgrade my personal bank to the size of a Guild bank. I am a mat hoarder and use my Shard vault to port excess items to my bank alt, but it'd just be lovely if I could have an enormous personal bank with equally enormous tabs. Adding improved character doodads would bring in a lot more money than forcing new players to spend real cash to buy gear slots.

    -ADVERTISE YOUR GAME. The biggest reason you're losing money (if you are) is that almost nobody I know in my gaming circle even knows about this game. Rift is fun. Advertise it.

    -Bring back world pvp and pvp gear. I realize you may have stopped this because of lack of manpower, but considering how many players left the game after this change, you could stand to hire a few pvp-dedicated coders. If those people came back, or you attracted new players with it, again, more money.

    -Go back to subscriptions. I already pay for patron. I would continue to pay for subscription. Don't get rid of the rift store or REX/Credits, but bring back subscriptions. WoW has a money store and the 15/month fee doesn't deter players from spending extra on exclusive mounts/whatever. If people like a game, they'll support it and set money aside for it.

  9. #159
    Rift Disciple Darkcleros's Avatar
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    Certainly very discouraging to see these changes Trion.

    What is sad is the scope of players voicing their concerns (Raiders, guide writers and many loyal fans) and the likely-hood that these concerns will fall on deaf ears....that will truly be a shame to distance the ones who have stuck by you.

    I happily have supported you and been a patron for long time and now... I find myself seriously reconsidering continuing my sub. The grind and absurd cost of gearing up (7 toons) has has zapped a lot of the fun of playing and changes like this (and short notice) do nothing for my confidence for foreseeable future. Please re-evaluate. tx

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkDaemon View Post
    Can we just skip all this crap and go back to a sub model?
    That would be awesome.. but I think they actually make more money this way, so I guess the answer to that would be no. I just don't really understand why after all this time, they are moving to make earring slots something that has to be paid for instead of using void stones. I have paid almost an embarrassing amount of money into this game.. and have my earring slots already.. I'm just sad it's going this direction.

  11. #161
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    Hi Ocho,

    At first I want to say that I hate PW:W and Earring Slots and think both should be removed from game. Gearing is something essential that shouldn't be behind any lockout. But as this probably is not debatable here I have a question for you:

    - How about adding a platinum purchase option instead of the void stone price? I think 4,500p for Earring Slots and 3,500p for Planewalker: Water would be appropriate. No P2W, problem solved. (You will have to raise the F2P platinum cap to 5,000p anyway, since REX prices on EU are already much higher and on NA coming close).


    Credit only items should only include cosmetic, comfort and shortcut items in my honest opinion. I wish only the best for Rift, as probably everyone in this thread does. Listen to us, change the direction again to "the best F2P model" as it once was and then when you soon make big announcements there will be returners and revenue. Everything good you will post in the next time will always be overshaded by moves like these.

    Thank you for reading.
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  12. #162
    Soulwalker
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    Default Free to play is a joke

    It's getting expensive to play for free

  13. #163
    Shield of Telara Necalli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Ultimately this is a business decision, to best support RIFT moving forward into the future. We're on the cusp right now of RIFT's 5th Anniversary, and we've got great stuff planned for 2016. But that stuff takes Engineers and Designers and CS and QA and a whole lot of other folks.

    Having a large team producing amazing things is a benefit to everyone who loves RIFT, both those making it and those who play it. But making games like RIFT is expensive. and so we need to sell things in game to pay those folks. We try to offer a variety of services that appeal to a broad selection of folks. Sometimes we try one thing, sometimes we try another. But it's always a learning experience.
    Okay, that's understandable. I still think that it's wrong to put statted gear slots behind a paywall. Instead of doing that why not introduce an aura of the planes (or whatever you want to call it) slot for characters behind a paywall lock?

    Idea is that you have a chance when questing, killing mobs, opening chests, ect. to get a crystal to drop that you can equip to your character (or sell) that has zero stats to it but it will give your characters an aura or maybe a primalist animal VFX? Or how about visual appearances for earrings and necklaces? How about having our planar focus being displayable on our character, something they could carry on their hip? What about trinkets?

    What about calling specific VFX? Primalist could summon a pack of animals, the clerics could summon tomes, warriors 2h swords, rogues daggers, and mages staffs. No combat bonuses of course.

    You could make a new set combat VFX too and put a price tag on that. I would pay good money to have a new set of combat animations.

    You could do planar corruption slots that you can charge for that could show different planar effects on our characters. E.g. Corruption of Akylios - grants the player 4 tentacles of Akylios out of their back. Corruption of fire - the players character is consumed by the plane of fire permanently surrounding them in flame while this is equipped.

    These are just a few ideas of some cosmetic items that can be added to the game and put behind a paywall that would not adversely effect any player that does not have them. The big issue I'm discussing here, the one most of the community is taking issue with is the fact that statted gear slots should never be behind in wall, let alone a pay wall. Not that earrings have been or ever will be an interesting gameplay mechanic, nor do they have any cosmetic bearings either.

    A perfect example of this is TOR. I logged into TOR probably about 2 months ago because I've been hearing so many great things about the story of the game. So I log in, as a veteran of many different MMOs across the industry. What's the first thing I see? A shop screen. Absolutely discouraging. "Here's our game, give us money" is what it screamed. Then I started looking around the UI, they wanted to charge me $10 to unlock additional action bars, they then wanted me to pay them an additional $5 to unlock the hide helmet feature. Then they wanted me to pay another $5 for a "unify colors" option in their wardrobe feature.

    Absolutely discouraging as a new player. After I found out that they were making players sub to their game during certain time period to unlock the BiS companion and additional story unlocks I walked away. It became obvious that this company did not care about their game, they just wanted to make money.

    What I don't want to see is Rift treated the same way by new players because they're barred from armor slots for 65+ levels.

  14. #164
    Plane Walker
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    Default Have to pay more than 2500p for something, like REX, but F2P?

    Quote Originally Posted by Qosmo View Post
    Surely, if anything, this will push the price of REX on the EU Cluster to much over the 3400p it's on at the moment.

    To my understanding, free players can only trade 2500p at a time. How will new EU players buy REX for the earring slots ?

    Please reconsider this change.

    Find someone willing to trade between the two toons on the f2p account, of course. I mean, you can make two toons per shard, so have one shard only hold one toon, the rest hold two toons with 2500p apiece. I'm guessing that's how they expect people to get around the limits? Or is the limit per account, not per toon? I'm poor, never had 2500p on my account, and I'm one of the "lucky" ones who played for a time at the very beginning.
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  15. #165
    Ascendant spaceboots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Your feedback is being read by people at every level here at Trion ...
    Reads like this is a test reception to see how to monetize future content.

    To be realistic, I'm in the b2p expansion boat for f2p games first. I would think paywalls turn more people away, and simply paint a bad image.

    Paywalls to content though, with story to back them up, seem to be received better.
    Just like f2p monetization in general, paywalls' bad image eventually catches up, and you'll be stuck figuring some new maneuver in a couple years.

    Advertise patron more too. It's the best value your game has.

    Also look at bundling and improving what your expansions offer.
    You've been generous with your ui improvements and wardrobe additions. Why not bundle them with the expansion? The long asked for dimension banks, or wardrobe system similar to dyes but you... you can buy that ones your missing with charges and you can always find more in game of course.

    Save some actually, well thought out (yeah remember pvp?) class changes for expansions. Good time to for entire class redesigns.

    Any drought of content can be masked by you, ocho, encouraging more community involvement, devs playing with the players or something. Simply making the game fun, and showing the people making have fun doing it somehow in spite of us calling them jerk faces all day.

    But I have to say, just this month, I've recommended this game to three enthusiastic random people to download and play, and hyped it up on stream, and said how good the f2p model was and to try patron, and it's going to suck for them to see the earrings restrictions, have to figure out how to get past the anti bot restrictions lifted by buying rex. (bundle patron time with the $20 lifter pack to get them hooked) then have to make money somehow in a new game to them to buy the rex. List goes on of things against them. And it should be a small list.

    Reevaluate your economy and how it works to encourage player reselling. Get that market pumping. Ultimately this being a theme park, tiered mmo will be the hinderance.

    I'm babbling now and have a meeting so I'll cut myself short here.
    Last edited by spaceboots; 01-26-2016 at 12:59 PM.

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