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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Producer's Letter & Dev Diary - Introducing RIFT Free-to-Play

  1. #766
    Ascendant Maeloda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torvaldr View Post
    I've been playing sub-free games for a long time now (since DDO and LotRO went sub-free).

    Here has been my experience with conversions so far: When the initial conversion hits there will be a huge influx of trolls (on both sides of the fence). That will die down after a while. Low level chat will always be a little more rowdy (probably not much more than 50-60 on a bad day), but by the time people get into the 40+ levels they're here to play, not troll the game.

    It really does depend on the community. When Tera first converted there were the old school campers (they're still there just not as vocal) but a lot of people returning too. People are presented then with real people to flame, their former friends and it becomes uncomfortable to call your friends dbags or bads or froobs just because they're not paying a sub.

    Trion is taking the right approach in not segregating the community. That is critical. Funcom made that mistake with AoC and they paid dearly for it. When we realize that we enjoy gaming with the person next to us and we have no idea whether they're subbed or not or whether they spend $100/mo in the cash shop, and that it doesn't matter then we can move on.

    We have one community and pretty soon, after the windstorm dies down, people will play together like they do now. It really is up to us as community members to promote that. I mean how would you want to be talked to by other members if you're not on a sub? Would you want to be excluded from RP sessions or labeled. Denigrating others because they're different, while it's not racism, is the very same mentality and attitude that engenders that sort of hate.

    It's our simple choice. Don't hate.
    Agreed. Rift community actually has a reputation for being elitist. Really.

    We can change that or leave. It's in our court now.

    Some games I'm subbed (like Rift).
    Some games I'm spending some bucks occasionally (like The Secret World and a bit in TOR, and GW2 if I get back into it).
    Some games I barely spend a dime (so far Neverwinter, etc).

    Am I some crappy person for this? No, so don't ever assume a F2Per is as well. 'Freeloader' is a terrible term, in this genre. A new player is a server filler. A server filler makes the game more active and popular. It's a net GOOD thing.

  2. #767
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    I've got mixed feelings. I probably wouldn't have such mixed feelings if they had not stated that they will be selling leveling, pvp and raid gear in the store.

    I feel like all of the grinding goals I have achieved are worthless now. Why did I sink so much time into doing expert dailys if that gear can be bought for a few bucks? Why have I been farming TDQ and EE and FT, if all but the legendary gear will be buyable in the store? Where are the goals? Where is the fun of working toward something?

    What goals will be left to work toward?

    What good will the Patron status benefits do for someone who doesn't play alts but has one character they prefer to play, who has every rep in the game maxed out, all her crafting maxed, raid gear almost completed? 10% run speed? What will I use it to travel toward? meh. I guess this will help keep Rift around longer with more cash for Trion. But will I want to play, even if it's free?

  3. #768
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taaltos View Post
    Why you edit out the someone Reign him in part? xD
    Because I didn't want to get banned and I thought it was rude!!

    (you're always calling me out on my edits, all over the place! )
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  4. #769
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Methadras View Post
    Well, that implication only leaves a couple of options. Either Hartsman lied or someone or other people lied to Hartsman. If it's been in the works for over a year as Daglar said, then someone was lying. Who will be honest enough to say?
    I already explained why it wasn't a lie. Secondly, it was not "in the works" for over a year, it was considered over a year ago. But mis-paraphrasing statements is fun I'm sure.

  5.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #770
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoughRaptors View Post
    Daglar, what happened to your purple name?

    Did a mod accidentally ban you?
    Yep, someone accidentally banned me.

    ~Daglar

  6. #771
    Champion Taaltos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilex011 View Post
    Because I didn't want to get banned and I thought it was rude!!

    (you're always calling me out on my edits, all over the place! )
    I'm very attentive!
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  7. #772
    Champion of Telara Methadras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    What is your confusion?

  8. #773
    Plane Touched Quna's Avatar
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    This does not bode well. I just started Rift and enjoy the higher quality of development (hotfixing, etc.) compared to another F2P game I stopped playing recently: LotRO.

    What happened in LotRO since they went F2P: added p2w consumables, PvP only boosts, gear (no end game, thankfully), removed existing in-game benefits to store only, nerfed subscription benefits, put Quality of Life changes into the store instead of game proper (xp disabler, enhanced currency wallet. etc.), major mechanics benefits are monetized (the major weapon system), etc.

    You cannot log on without the UI reminding you at every turn to buy from the microtransaction store.

    This week, in Lord of the Rings Online: subscriber stacking rest xp benefits were cut to encourage daily login numbers and store xp bonus purchases. They also added a mandatory slot machine interface for daily login rewards, which you can continue to spin with store currency (and if you run out of store currency, you can buy more with real cash).

    I actually came to Rift to avoid that sham, and this news greatly saddens me. I guess I'll cancel now and enjoy what I've got...

    Here's a couple protips from someone who's seen what happens when the business model favors monetizing every development decision over player enjoyment:

    Do not sell gear or consumables that cannot be reasonably gotten in game. P2W includes any gear/consumable that isn't reasonably gotten in game. Edit: and raid/pvp gear WILL be sold? Okay, wow, uh... Definite cancellation. I was thinking only regular quested/crafted stuff.

    REWARD SUBSCRIBERS for that revenue stream. There are no subscriber benefits in LotRO, and it shows, as UI and mechanics are designed to favor the store at every turn. This really is offputting to most players who don't do the Facebook/zynga ad-based games....

    I am honestly not convinced that the F2P model breeds conscientious game design.
    Last edited by Quna; 05-14-2013 at 01:48 PM.

  9. #774
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamma Ray View Post
    Precise details on the gear that will be available will quell or inflame a good deal of the concerned players. Let's see how they play that card.

    In addition, my concern here is that I've had poor experiences before like this (looking at you, Perfect World Entertainment). F2P comes around. There is rejoicing. There is doomsaying. Happy players believe it will bring a surge of new players and funds into the game, fueling it ever forward and adding more lifeblood (players) to the game. Doomsayers call it the end of real content additions, because little squirts of fluff in the cash shop are more profitable than huge content development projects (Ember Island, Conquest, new major events).

    The game has been sagging for a while now, which is not promising. In the past, on a purely anecdotal level (PWE, the captains of the Good Ship Neverwinter) have severely burned me, destroying a game that I never thought I could come to dislike.

    The sub model doesn't really impress, either. It's clearly designed to grab some funds from newer/return/incomplete players. Players that have already fulfilled most of what these bonuses offer are probably expected to burn out and fall off, and therefore aren't of interest for retention.

    I'll admit. My hopes are not high. Seeing as I have until next November or October, I guess I'll just sit back and watch it play out.
    I have until next May and I have the same concerns you do. I don't care how Neverwinter has its cash4gear system because I'm really just there to enjoy the combat and leveling, but Rift is my 'home' and to even SEE that they're selling anything beyond quest greens (or the chance of it) is a HUGE HUGE WORRY.

  10. #775
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    Quote Originally Posted by Methadras View Post
    Well, that implication only leaves a couple of options. Either Hartsman lied or someone or other people lied to Hartsman. If it's been in the works for over a year as Daglar said, then someone was lying. Who will be honest enough to say?
    The fact that Hartsman left says a lot.
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  11.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #776
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroMGA View Post
    This is a concern of mine as well. Dimensions have been one of the core reasons I'm still playing Rift. I don't mind if items are available in a MT store AND off of vendors, but if there are store-only items that would be pretty annoying.

    I know Dalgar has stated that the -gear- would not be anything that is not available already to earn, but what about dimension items? And some of the other "fluff" items. Will they all be available to both MT sales and vendor sales? So that, essentially, it's just an option of which is more available to you: game money or real money?
    We offer a variety of items for both in game currency (plat, marks, etc), and credits (purchased with real money). The dimension section of the RIFT store is quite large.

    ~Daglar

  12. #777
    Prophet of Telara Torvaldr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xanduin246 View Post
    It depends how they define it. WoW for example recently released their numbers, and they define subscribers as both people who are "subscribed" and those still in their free month.

    EDIT: Oh, and this is a "subscriber" too, though I have no idea what it means: Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers
    Here are some reference links. I had my facts off. It's just under 500k subs not over, but it's 1.7M f2p accounts not just over a million.
    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cf.../384459/page/1

    And here is an article about how revenues are up post F2P: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cf...n.html#5728881

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    Quote Originally Posted by Methadras View Post
    Well, that implication only leaves a couple of options. Either Hartsman lied or someone or other people lied to Hartsman. If it's been in the works for over a year as Daglar said, then someone was lying. Who will be honest enough to say?
    I thought this way too, then looked at the date. It was over a year and a half ago when that article was posted. I think Daglar said they first put the question on the table early last year. So it wasn't until 2-4 months after that quote that they even started talking about a F2P model.

  14. #779
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    Oh good now more of my friends can play. The buffs sounds a lot like the veterans vials + money trinket tbh ~ so those are pretty w/e ~ but the cash shop should be interesting. You could see the switch coming sooner, rather than later, especially when Hartsman talked about the demand for f2p in his AMA.

    I've played a lot of f2p games, and cash shops are definitely not all created equal. The option for players to pay for things with in-game currency may be a good sign, but I'll still hold off a bit before declaring it the best/worst thing ever.

    Also f2p gamers are just like any other gamers, this stereotyping and demonizing of people who play f2p doesn't do anybody any favours. It reeks of classism and it's really gross.

  15. #780
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misun View Post
    The fact that Hartsman left says a lot.
    Almost as much as the fact that he supports F2P now.

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