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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Producer's Letter & Dev Diary - Introducing RIFT Free-to-Play

  1. #226
    Ascendant Laeris's Avatar
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    I quit playing Rift sometime back in January due to Trion's inability to fix its RP server toxic-filled hate fest. I have a 1-year sub that's good until September or so.

    That being said, I have never been more happy to uninstall Rift 5 minutes ago. I used to think Trion was a good company that made a great game... Oh how the once mighty has become so meek, sick and twisted. I know now with this change to a nickle-and-dime marketing ploy that Rift will never be 1/100th of the game it once was. Any time a game developer absolutely throws digital excrement at its players for an additional fee in order for them to enjoy the basic game features... it really just cheapens the game and relegates it to junk status like Allods Online. Rift is simply just another game that has opted for the "Free to play: Pay to enjoy" mindset. It's free to complain (which is what most froobs do on F2P games) but not free to enjoy. Longtime annual subscribers like me get the proverbial pixel stick up our arses.

    Why? Because for the hundreds and hundreds of dollars we've spent... we get a note from Trion that says, "Hey! Thanks for playing sucker! Now you have to buy gear like everyone else... but hey! We'll give you a different color in-game name so everyone else knows you're one of the biggest suckers in the entire goshdarn game! Thanks for giving us all this money... but, yeah. Our marketing department says we'll get more money if we attract people who are too broke to pay us money now... so we're going to attract a bunch of whiny, complaining, freeloading 10-year olds and tweenagers who don't have any money to begin with.. and make more money!"

    So yeah Trion. Let's all join in and welcome Rift to the MMO junk heap beside EQ1, Warhammer Online, and Age of Conan. Oh such remarkable company you have now. Smells like sh*t don't it?
    Last edited by Laeris; 05-14-2013 at 09:10 AM.

  2. #227
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    I am very mixed about this decision. I knew it was coming at some point but didn't know when. On a larger scale, I feel this is the best thing for Trion and, hopefully, this trickles down to being the best thing for the players as well.

    Trion, I can tell one thing with great confidence, however: it says you are going to offer "gear" on the in-game cash shop. If this gear is even remotely close to the current tier of raiding at the time (tier 2 in this case) you can say goodbye to all of your raiders. The gear better not be tier 1 either. It better be no more than Exper-level gear to ensure that guilds still have to progress through TIer 1 raids before they can tackle tier 2.
    Moved on from Rift due to: Rift's PvP being a mindless, skilless zerg that has been and will continue to be perpetuated and reinforced :: A horribly optimized engine :: My personal distaste for F2P (already heading down the P2W path) after giving it a fair shake. Rift is an exceptional MMO by an overachieving development team that unfortunately is ruined by a few personally show-stopping issues.

  3. #228
    Ascendant the_real_seebs's Avatar
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    Not surprised. Looking at how Turbine has done with F2P, and looking at how CoH did (it was very profitable; no one knows why ncsoft then killed it), I was assuming this would happen someday.

    Honestly, the only thing I particularly care about either way is the totally unchecked harassment and abuse going on in-game. If some day I log in and I don't see the same exact person swearing at people and making various inappropriate remarks in the public channels, I will probably play a bunch. If the same people are able to continue harassing everyone day in and day out for months, I probably won't play much. The business model is not very significant to me by comparison.2
    You can play WoW in any MMO. You don't have to play WoW in RIFT. Oh, and no, RIFT is not a WoW clone. Not having fun any more? Learn to play, noob! I don't speak for Riftui, but I moderate stuff there. Just came back? Welcome back! Here's what's changed. (Updated for 2.5!)

  4. #229
    Ascendant Redius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synovia View Post
    I am very mixed about this decision. I knew it was coming at some point but didn't know when. On a larger scale, I feel this is the best thing for Trion and, hopefully, this trickles down to being the best thing for the players as well.

    Trion, I can tell one thing with great confidence, however: it says you are going to offer "gear" on the in-game cash shop. If this gear is even remotely close to the current tier of raiding at the time (tier 2 in this case) you can say goodbye to all of your raiders. The gear better not be tier 1 either. It better be no more than Exper-level gear to ensure that guilds still have to progress through TIer 1 raids before they can tackle tier 2.
    I rarely agree with Synovia on anything, however, I completely agree with this. I, for one, am out if purchased gear is anywhere near raid tier. I'm betting most of my guild will leave as well.
    Lemming (formerly Mrhyde@Belmont), Guild Leader of Black Company on Greybriar
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  5.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #230
    Community Manager Elrar's Avatar
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    Hey all,

    The Reddit Ask Me Anything has started - please stop by to leave your questions!

    http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comment...e_bill_fisher/

    We'll answer as many as we can throughout the day

  6. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redius View Post
    I rarely agree with Synovia on anything, however, I completely agree with this. I, for one, am out if purchased gear is anywhere near raid tier. I'm betting most of my guild will leave as well.
    Although I don't speak for the guild, I'm fairly certain Negative Ghostrider in Rift would be done if Tier 2 or even Tier 1 raid gear was offered in the cash shop. So now that I've said this, given how many folks hate us, let the begging for cash shop raid gear begin.....
    Moved on from Rift due to: Rift's PvP being a mindless, skilless zerg that has been and will continue to be perpetuated and reinforced :: A horribly optimized engine :: My personal distaste for F2P (already heading down the P2W path) after giving it a fair shake. Rift is an exceptional MMO by an overachieving development team that unfortunately is ruined by a few personally show-stopping issues.

  7. #232
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    Gone are the days when f2p=crap game. The model will not mean less updates or less content. If you believe so you are still living in the 90's


    My major issue is the half and half nature of the model. It looks like they are taking a similar tact as EA did with TOR, and frankly that model is appalling. I do not want to be 'forced' into subbing due to the bonuses, only to then have to pay more on a gambling system of "treasure boxs" for gear to avoid the RNG.
    Limiting bag and role slots for non sub people is already a worrying trend, but seeing we do not know a lot of information it will be something to keep a close eye on

  8. #233
    Ascendant the_real_seebs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissAmaruuk View Post
    I've played F2P before, and yes, great free; however, the community - which is the primary reason I stay in a game - is absolute trash. Bots, spammers,trolls, chat clogged so full of just crap that you have to turn it off entirely. I left all of those games within a week. There's no community in a F2P game.
    This is 100% false. It has nothing at all to do with "F2P".

    CoH had the best community I have ever seen in an MMO, bar none. It was amazing. Heck. The CoH community is still pretty active, and they're doing a credible job of trying to organize a volunteer-run super hero MMO.

    DDO has a pretty decent community.

    WoW has the most toxic community of any MMO I've ever seen.

    Path of Exile, which is more an ARPG, had what was originally a pretty toxic community, but is now pretty good -- because they are highly active in policing abusive behavior. (And, better yet, not only do they have options for reporting harassment, not just spam, from the chat pop-up, but they will send responses confirming that action has been taken. Which it has.)

    Rift started out with a good community, but then they stopped enforcing the rules, and the in-game community is currently abusive and toxic, at least on Faeblight. Why? Because there's people who have been openly trolling since last summer, constantly harassing people and violating the nominal rules, and nothing has ever happened. And everyone knows that nothing happens, so the people who like to troll are actively trolling and harassing, and the people who don't like the resulting community have stopped logging in and participating.

    The problem with community has nothing to do with F2P vs. subscription. Rift's community problems are because no one at Trion cares, or if they do, they do not have the authority to do anything. If they fix that, they will have a good community whether they're F2P or not. If they don't fix it, they will have a bad community whether they're F2P or not.
    You can play WoW in any MMO. You don't have to play WoW in RIFT. Oh, and no, RIFT is not a WoW clone. Not having fun any more? Learn to play, noob! I don't speak for Riftui, but I moderate stuff there. Just came back? Welcome back! Here's what's changed. (Updated for 2.5!)

  9. #234
    Ascendant Agrona77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissAmaruuk View Post
    I was floored when I read this this morning. My lil heart just sank.

    I've played F2P before, and yes, great free; however, the community - which is the primary reason I stay in a game - is absolute trash. Bots, spammers,trolls, chat clogged so full of just crap that you have to turn it off entirely. I left all of those games within a week. There's no community in a F2P game.
    Let me start by saying, I'm not thrilled to see Rift going F2P.

    However, I have to defend the community of some of the F2P games I've played. When you get to know them and if you spent more than a week in those games, you will find that the community isn't much different from the P2P one.

    I've spent around two-three years in two different F2P MMO's, not because the games were so amazing, but because of the wonderful community and the great friends I made. I am still in touch with a lot of people from these games.

    I've also volunteered for two of these gaming companies and helped root out bots and spammers and gold sellers. Those are the biggest threat for F2P games, and what annoyed me the most about the F2P model.

    You will find Trolls anywhere, in any game, no matter if you are paying or if it's free. I've also got a lvl 80 character in GW2 and I've really only had positive encounters when it comes to the community.

    So, let's hope Trion has some solid plans for dealing with gold sellers, because once Rift goes F2P they will smell the blood of the noob free to play crowd! LOL

    @ the real seebs: Faeblight got a toxic community? Where? There has been a few times some disruptive chat in the 1-29 channel, but you can always leave the channel. I just leave it up for entertainment when I fish. LOL

    And you are a community ambassador and yet you say that Trion doesn't care about it? o.0 Aren't you representing Rift and Trion at the moment?
    Last edited by Agrona77; 05-14-2013 at 09:19 AM.

  10. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synovia View Post
    It better be no more than Exper-level gear to ensure that guilds still have to progress through TIer 1 raids before they can tackle tier 2.
    HaHa - in your dream man - in your Dream.
    The Gear must be good -Good enough that people are willing to spend RL money for it.

    This will screw away the Raiders ? - sure - but who cares at Trion - it will bring a lot of kids with daddys Credit Card. And thats what they want atm - get as much cash out of it as possible.
    Last edited by Timrum; 05-14-2013 at 09:17 AM.

  11. #236
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    Thank you alot Failon for the last drop that makes me quit. Your SL grind fest, your awful "balance" aparently still weren't enough to make me quit. But this is, congratulations.

    Pay2Win is the reason I came to Rift in the first place, now you're doing just that, scamming all people that took longer subscriptions. "Patron" status, my a55, I expect a refund for the 4 months you scammed out of me, and I bet you scammed more out of other people, so shameful.

    W.
    Last edited by Woor; 05-14-2013 at 09:19 AM.

  12. #237
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Cyliena's Avatar
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    I've survived two SOE games I frequently play going F2P and am still here to tell the tale.

    Honestly, the reaction there was similar when it was first announced. Everyone needs to take a deep breath and calm down. Are things going to change? Yes, a bit. Honestly, it'll be better in the long run. Games need fresh blood and this will infuse RIFT with it.

    Breathe in, breathe out. The game you know and love will still be here!
    Last edited by Cyliena; 05-14-2013 at 09:20 AM.

  13. #238
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrandGuru View Post
    This change is not a pay to win cash shop. While there will be a lot of items you can purchase in the RIFT Store,
    Isn't that what EVERY F2P game publisher promises? And for what game that was true?

    Quote Originally Posted by BrandGuru View Post
    the best items in the game must be earned.
    Possibilities:
    .) The items in the shop make you Expert ready: Nobody would buy it as the drops and quest rewards make you expert ready. Not very likely.
    .) The items in the shop make you SL T1 raid ready: That means that patrons, that don't want to use the shop in addition to their sub have to run experts as they have now. Just that shop users get their gear instantly... That makes a perfect Pay2Win model
    .) The items in the shop make you SL Raid T2 raid ready: Same as above but would really pi** off Patron players. Earning full SL Raid T1 gear takes quite long. Besides the fact that most guilds haven't even seen Regulos, or even killed him, it would make T1 raids worthless, since one can buy the gear within seconds.

    For all these three versions, your statement is true. The best items now are SL Raid T1 and as of 2.3 SL Raid T2. So if the gear from the shop is just below SL Raid T2, it will be a burner in the shop but a full and proper face palm for all non cash shop players.
    So the gear is either worthless or shining Pay2Win.

    I have now 326 days remaining on my sub. Even if I would get enough currency to buy this gear, I wouldn't buy it, because the fun and excitement in an MMO is to EARN things.

    The next problem is that without normal progression (maybe standard dungeons -> exp -> Raid T1 -> Raid T2) you just get a bunch of "High Level Noobs". You'll find yourself in Raids with players that went 60 by leeching hunter rifts and buy their gear in the shop. No idea what his toon is capable of and even less idea on how to play it.
    This ruins the raid and eventually even the game for the rest of the group.

    Gear in the shop is crap. Either it's worthless or it makes more or less big parts of the game worthless. Sooner or later, there won't be any groups that run experts or T1 raids, because the "veterans" already have their gear to go T2 raids, and newcomers or alts will have no choice but to buy it in the shop...

    and honestly... exp and/or factions boost aren't worth real money.
    Here's the next problem: Patrons will earn more xp/factions/gold. Will the boosts in the shop be better? If yes: pi**es of patrons. If no: what reason to stay patron after the "required" factions are maxed?

    Mixing F2P with P2P is... bad...
    I won't say what I really think of it, because I do not want a ban

    Another thing that F2P gets you: hundreds, if not thousands of bots! Botters don't even suffer a loss when the account is banned...

    Please present us a plan what subs that did pay many months in advance (like me) can expect that want to quit the game because of this F2P model... I'm afraid you will be asked for this thousands of times...

  14. #239
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    The best gear in the game won't have a price tag on it. Raid mark gear is typically the best in the game - we don't have any level 60 raid mark gear on the store for credits. A variety of the dungeon gear is available. We are not currently planning on selling any of the top end raid crafting components either.
    Thank you for this. Consider my worries at ease!
    Moved on from Rift due to: Rift's PvP being a mindless, skilless zerg that has been and will continue to be perpetuated and reinforced :: A horribly optimized engine :: My personal distaste for F2P (already heading down the P2W path) after giving it a fair shake. Rift is an exceptional MMO by an overachieving development team that unfortunately is ruined by a few personally show-stopping issues.

  15. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyliena View Post
    I've survived two SOE games I frequently play going F2P and am still here to tell the tale.
    And we all see where EQ1 and EQ2 are now.

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