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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: PvP Gear Improvements Now with a touch of Vengeance!

  1. #46
    Rift Chaser Dashel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bear_on_the_job View Post
    However, I think you need to carefully re-evaluate healing in PVP now. Rank 8 Clerics are already incredibly hard to kill, and anyone they focus heal is also nearly invincible. In many PVP encounters, you realize the only players you can kill are low ranking ones. Now, that separation in the pack is gone, and everyone will be nearly impossible to kill.
    The way I am reading it is people will be easier to kill overall. The R8 Cleric now has 700ish valor and 30% damage reduction as opposed to the current 45%(?). Also, the DPS stats will be rising with the new gear. I think...

  2. #47
    Ascendant Sorovos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by law5097 View Post
    blame all the qqers.

    Annoyed as well, specifically with the valor changes. I don't understand why higher rank = higher survivability is such a difficult concept for people to accept. But whatever, the people who qq the most will always get their way because for whatever reason trion listens to them over everyone one else.

    While we're at it just remove valor and vengeance all together so I don't have to grind ranks for pvp gear and can just roll in pve gear, or whenever someone hits 50 they should get their r7/8 gear right away. That's more user friendly right? That'll make people stop crying right?

    Oh and btw I'm tired of not being able to burn healers down instantly so lets go ahead and nerf healing into the ground, k thanks. Oh and rogue stealth, war dmg, and cleric/mage aoe need to be nerfed hard.

    You know what lets just normalize everything so everyone is absolutely the same, then balance wont be an issue.

    And i'm done ranting
    Wait, you don't think Rank 8 gear gives Massive Survivability over Rank 1 gear without taking Valor into account?
    Xsorus - Rank 8 Mage/Server Seastone/Guardian/Guild - Desolate

  3. #48
    Plane Touched KDM255's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorovos View Post
    You wouldn't of grinded out multiple ranks to get massive increase of damage stats while keeping Valor?

    You realize how silly that sounds right?

    Tell you what, You go buy some Rank 1/2 PVP gear, and go PVP at Rank 8 with it, and tell me how well you do vs you Rank 8 gear.
    HUH? I don't get what your saying? Also it is hard enough to kill a warrior as it is.....now that rank 1's are getting the same valor as rank 8's is not cool at all.....
    Last edited by KDM255; 08-30-2011 at 07:27 PM.


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  4. #49
    Telaran Rosette's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bear_on_the_job View Post
    Assist on the warrior? When there are 4 warriors on my side, and a single cleric on the other side...who else would I target? And yet those 4 warriors still can't kill the cleric...
    I'm guessing you're talking about Aiyra?
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  5. #50
    Ascendant Sorovos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dashel View Post
    The way I am reading it is people will be easier to kill overall. The R8 Cleric now has 700ish valor and 30% damage reduction as opposed to the current 45%(?). Also, the DPS stats will be rising with the new gear. I think...
    Damage Reduction is going down some for higher ranks (probably to offset the HP increase), but DPS stats will be the same except for the Trinkets.
    Xsorus - Rank 8 Mage/Server Seastone/Guardian/Guild - Desolate

  6. #51
    Plane Walker bear_on_the_job's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorovos View Post
    Yet, Magically, I can assist anyone of the warriors in my guild, and kill a Rank 8 Cleric..

    God Help that Cleric if I have a Marksman with us.

    When pointing fingers, remember 3 are pointing right back at you.
    An eradicating marksman will definitely bring down a warden, no doubt. But in situations where there is no eradicate spam, a well played cleric will take far too many DPS to kill, imo. If It only takes you + 1 Warrior to kill a cleric, then it wasn't a very good cleric.
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  7. #52
    Shadowlander isaenko's Avatar
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    BRAVO for whoever said this:
    "However, I think you need to carefully re-evaluate healing in PVP now. Rank 8 Clerics are already incredibly hard to kill, and anyone they focus heal is also nearly invincible. In many PVP encounters, you realize the only players you can kill are low ranking ones. Now, that separation in the pack is gone, and everyone will be nearly impossible to kill."

    Healing should have diminishing returns in pvp.

    I completely agree. I think that now that valor is more or less equalized the gap between lower ranking and higher ranking people is brought down. More emphasis on healing for sure.
    In a sense of prediction, higher ranking clerics will dominate the pvp.
    Last edited by isaenko; 08-30-2011 at 07:25 PM.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by law5097 View Post
    blame all the qqers.

    Annoyed as well, specifically with the valor changes. I don't understand why higher rank = higher survivability is such a difficult concept for people to accept. But whatever, the people who qq the most will always get their way because for whatever reason trion listens to them over everyone one else.

    While we're at it just remove valor and vengeance all together so I don't have to grind ranks for pvp gear and can just roll in pve gear, or whenever someone hits 50 they should get their r7/8 gear right away. That's more user friendly right? That'll make people stop crying right?

    Oh and btw I'm tired of not being able to burn healers down instantly so lets go ahead and nerf healing into the ground, k thanks. Oh and rogue stealth, war dmg, and cleric/mage aoe need to be nerfed hard.

    You know what lets just normalize everything so everyone is absolutely the same, then balance wont be an issue.

    And i'm done ranting
    If you were a true PvPer, you'd realize that this is a great move on Trion's part. Gear should not completely decide an encounter between two players; their skill should. Given the mechanics of this game, gear will play a part, but it should not be overwhelming as it was. The majority of the complaints here seem to be from people upset that they will not be able to destroy lower ranked players as easily as they had before.

    As your gear improves, you'll deal more damage and have more health. You'll have access to other items that allow you to mitigate more damage. This change simply allows lower ranked players a more even foot in the door. A good one might even be able to kill you.

  9. #54
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by bear_on_the_job View Post
    I like the Valor idea, you really needed to help those entry level players to promote PVP more. The stats alone on the armor and weapons should be an adequate distinguishing factor between new players and high ranking players.

    However, I think you need to carefully re-evaluate healing in PVP now. Rank 8 Clerics are already incredibly hard to kill, and anyone they focus heal is also nearly invincible. In many PVP encounters, you realize the only players you can kill are low ranking ones. Now, that separation in the pack is gone, and everyone will be nearly impossible to kill.

    I don't think damage needs to be increased for players, because that would just make encounters without a healer even shorter, and potentially introduce more 1-shot combos. But I do think healing needs to be toned down in some way to compensate for this change.

    In my opinion, healing should be on a diminishing returns scale. If a cleric or mage spot heals an individual or the group, that initial heal will be at full strength, so they can save targets that grab quick focus fire. But overtime, the healing on their target should gradually reduce, down to some hard cap of healing effectiveness (maybe 30%). That way, you don't have invincible clerics that can't be killed, even with 5+ R6+ DPS on them. Or at the very least, self-healing for both Clerics and Mages needs to be addressed. Both of those classes gain far too much survivability by dipping into healing trees, while not sacrificing much DPS.

    that was exactly what i was thinking. R6+ clerics are hard to kill as it is... adding R1 Clerics with the same Dmg reduction to the mix, with almost the same healing capability, is just plain wrong.

    but lets see how it works out.

  10. #55
    Plane Walker bear_on_the_job's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosette View Post
    I'm guessing you're talking about Aiyra?
    That's probably one of them. There are a few, Ixcal came to mind, but I think he transfered recently. There was one particular occasion I remember, where me and 3 guildies, all R6+, 2 wars a rogue and a mage chased him from Whitefall to almost Exiles Den and couldn't kill him. Then he got reinforced and they killed us.
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  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by law5097 View Post
    blame all the qqers.

    Annoyed as well, specifically with the valor changes. I don't understand why higher rank = higher survivability is such a difficult concept for people to accept.
    your argument is flawed because it's incomplete

    higher rank should equal higher survivability. but it should not also mean such a huge advantage in +dmg stats that you are one killing people in one gcd.



    this is where blizzard did pvp right when arenas and resilience went in - pvp gear has a modest increase in +dmg stats, but a huge increase in endurance. because the increase in +dmg stats isn't on the same level as raid gear, people dont try to raid in pvp gear.


    that is the bottom line, end all argument there or have some of you forgotten about being killed over the hourse of a hand of justice in vanilla wow by a raid geared paladin holding hand of rag or later on, ashkandi?

  12. #57
    Ascendant Sorovos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bear_on_the_job View Post
    An eradicating marksman will definitely bring down a warden, no doubt. But in situations where there is no eradicate spam, a well played cleric will take far too many DPS to kill, imo. If It only takes you + 1 Warrior to kill a cleric, then it wasn't a very good cleric.
    Or just terrible DPS on your part.
    Xsorus - Rank 8 Mage/Server Seastone/Guardian/Guild - Desolate

  13. #58
    Plane Touched Larrs's Avatar
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    Cool hehe

    Quote Originally Posted by Draidiard View Post
    Lots of QQ by the fresh 50's who want all the gear the second they hit 50. Way to cater to the noobs crying Trion! Next you will give vengeance out to the Rank 1 and 2's because they get hit to hard.
    i agree

    Now I Know Why Some Animals Eat Their Young

  14. #59
    Rift Chaser Dashel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorovos View Post
    Damage Reduction is going down some for higher ranks (probably to offset the HP increase), but DPS stats will be the same except for the Trinkets.
    You're looking at a 50% DR decrease at the highest levels. I dont know what HP increase you refer to, but as it stands the valor will be lower for the toughest targets and thus they'll be easier to kill even if DPS stats stay the same.

  15. #60
    Plane Walker bear_on_the_job's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kardel View Post
    that was exactly what i was thinking. R6+ clerics are hard to kill as it is... adding R1 Clerics with the same Dmg reduction to the mix, with almost the same healing capability, is just plain wrong.

    but lets see how it works out.
    I almost feel this change will have a similar effect to what happened when they first introduced Valor changes a few months ago. They increased valor's effect on PTS and did some play testing. WF's were terrible because no one could kill anyone else. They realized the mistake and rolled back all the valor changes, and haven't touched valor since.

    Now that they're touching it again, I think they need to double check everything, or it will be a bad touch...
    Cayleb - P50 Warrior [@Seastone]
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