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Thread: Noob Barrier

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Question Noob Barrier

    Be me, in your first time in a new dungeon, and only your second time ever healing a 5-man in this particular game, despite being a long time player of a very similar game.
    Be courteous to your group by telling them about these two pertinent facts *the very moment* you spawn into the dungeon, as the tank proceeds to pull every mob within sight of your spawn point before you're even finished typing.
    Be caught off guard and let the tank die, but battle rez the tank, and finish the fight.
    Ignore the support class(who died too) who suggests you should switch to a DPS role, and let them heal.
    Click ready during the next three ready checks the group leader triggers, at various points.
    Be a little bit irked when the group leaves you behind to proceed into the next area as you pause for approximately 10 seconds to look at a piece of gear, because you're not sure where they went.
    Tell them you're lost, as they go ahead and engage the next major group of enemies and a boss without bothering with a ready check, or even noticing you're not there.
    Find the way they went before they answer, but find yourself stuck behind a barrier, because they've obviously engaged a boss.
    Let them know you're stuck behind a boss barrier, again just trying to be courteous.
    Be told it's not a boss barrier, but rather a noob barrier, while other members of the group laugh about how witty the comment was.
    Finish the dungeon while trying to figure out if this is normal behavior for groups in this game you're suddenly not sure you want to keep playing.
    /facepalm

    In all seriousness, is this a standard reaction to new players in this game? How would you react, if confronted with the same situation from my group mates' point of view? If you're a tank, are you in the habit of making a massive pull in dungeons before even so much as a hello?

  2. #2
    Champion
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    Are you on EU? If so, then yes this is pretty "normal".

    I'm a fan of being courteous as well. But I've forced myself to see the groups that you describe as something positive. If you join and nobody says anything, or if they give you a hard time, keep quiet and relax. It's your green light for not giving a f**** about being an un-experienced player. Then if they start complaining you don't have to respond. Or just copy and past some exotic language in the chat. I'm typing it and wishing I could be careless like that.

    I'm still at a loss where/how people are supposed to practice these dungeons. I personally would really like to learn to heal and/or tank. But there is no other option then to just jump in and practice live. So, I just stick to DPS because it's easier.
    Last edited by Xlavius; 02-02-2017 at 11:55 PM.

  3. #3
    Plane Touched
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    This is what guilds are for. So players can work with players they know, or have a vested interest in helping you. But for some reason Trion made it easier for people to make their own guild (blind leading blind) and viola! New players show up unsure, unknowing and get raked over coals. Why because those of us who have spent hours helping our own guildies really don't feel like doing it all again for a stranger. Join a real guild get help direction. don't and get treated like, well, like you didn't bother to learn before you joined

  4. #4
    Champion
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    Quote Originally Posted by Currly View Post
    This is what guilds are for. So players can work with players they know, or have a vested interest in helping you. But for some reason Trion made it easier for people to make their own guild (blind leading blind) and viola! New players show up unsure, unknowing and get raked over coals. Why because those of us who have spent hours helping our own guildies really don't feel like doing it all again for a stranger. Join a real guild get help direction. don't and get treated like, well, like you didn't bother to learn before you joined
    A while ago I got some random guild invitation, which I accepted just to get rid of all the invites... Then what? How do you join a dungeon in a guild?

    I tried switching to a different guild several times but they all were very quiet. I found a really good one now for trading artifacts.

  5. #5
    Soulwalker
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    in a perfect world the group would wait at the start and ask if anyone is new and if so explain what has to be done.
    This is not perfect world.
    If you are new to healing try to do old dungeons and heal groups until you get a strong feel for healing then move on to the real dungeons that you need to do.
    Healing is a tuff job same as tanking. A healer needs to know what to cleanse when and heals and all that.
    Doing older dungeons where you are over leveled for will give you more time to learn all that.
    I remember when I healed my first dungeon in rift and ya it wasnt good.
    killed everyone due to a cleanse I didnt cleanse cause I didnt realize it.
    After doing old dungeons and learn more when I went back and healed that dungeon I did great.

  6. #6
    Plane Touched
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    like any MMO many experienced players come to expect that everyone else is as experienced as they are and having a new player in the group is seen as a nuisance, unfortunately

    Imo though, pulling any boss without a ready check is stupid unless everyone in the group is in TS or something

  7. #7
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Currly View Post
    ... because those of us who have spent hours helping our own guildies really don't feel like doing it all again for a stranger...
    No explanations were necessary by the other players, just a modicum of patience. Given the two items below, we would've had no issues whatsoever. I hope you're not suggesting this is difficult:

    1) A few extra seconds in each area so I didn't get lost.
    2) The tank not to pull everything in each room every chance he got.

    Also, I find it interesting that you seem to be classifying all of your guildmates as not strangers, by mere virtue of the fact that they're your guild mates... Do you only ever play with people you know in RL?

  8. #8
    Champion sirdiggby's Avatar
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    the problem is low dungeons are dead, if EU side then i hear its worse than NA

    chances are these werent new people like you but rather old players perhaps leveling. one thing to understand is that you dont even need a healer for most of this stuff as what you are getting is players that are mentored down that have abilities that make tanking trivial which is why the tank was prob pulling everything. im sure i;ve done plenty where i have stayed as dps as the tank because full tank wasnt even needed.

    if you wanna do it the way you want you can try to gather some players as your lv that way you dont get the kind of experience you had.

    chances are you will meet more downbolstered players that are jus gonna rush through everything. the rudeness is standard MMO stuff you gotta expect it any game you play. just use the ignore feature, and you wont get grouped with those people again.

    dont worry too much about gear you will outlevel it way too fast for it to matter.

    not everyone is a jerk so dont let one experience ruin everything for you.

  9. #9
    Ascendant Meteorblade's Avatar
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    I tanked huge numbers of dungeons during my time in Rift.

    For any dungeon run I was doing that included people that weren't in my guild, I would do a ready-check at the start of every dungeon as people might need to change specs. I would also do a ready-check prior to every boss pull and I would assume you went through a brief mental checklist like this...
    1. Am I in the correct spec for the role I'm expected to perform?
    2. Am I in the correct gear for the role I'm expected to perform?
    3. Am I am inside the lockout area?
    4. Do I have enough / full mana?
    5. Do I know the fight mechanics?
    ...and only if the answer to all those questions was yes would you click "Ready".

    As someone that was new to the dungeon and/or the role you had chosen, what you did was absolutely the right thing, i.e. you spoke up right at the start to say so. When someone said this in my parties that was in no way a problem because I was always much, much happier to quickly explain tactics before a pull than after a wipe. Also, knowing that you were new to healing, I would have factored that into the speed I pulled groups and how many packs at once.

    Basically, you got an impatient tank and a set of idiot DPS who picked on you for having the honesty to say you were new and for them running off and pulling stuff without you.

    My advice would be extremely simple. Put them on ignore, especially the DPS'ers that gave you a hard time. Tanks and healers are always in highest demand for LGF so DPS'ers that annoy healers really do themselves no favours, because the more healers' ignore lists they end up on, the longer their queue times become.

    Also, the advice about joining a guild is good. It's why I made the caveat in my second paragraph. The reason I knew that I didn't need to do all those ready-checks in a guild group was because when a guild-mate was completely fresh to dungeons we'd form a full guild group with them and we'd insist they got onto TeamSpeak so that we could give them tactics and tips whilst we ran the dungeons. We did that with every guild mate.

    TL;DR - Put idiots onto ignore. Move on. Join a helpful guild.

  10. #10
    Ascendant Meteorblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Currly View Post
    Why because those of us who have spent hours helping our own guildies really don't feel like doing it all again for a stranger.
    1. Spend 30 seconds explaining tactics prior to pulling
    2. Spend 30 seconds explaining tactics after a wipe
    I know you'd prefer not to have to explain at all but if you're going to have to explain anyway, I don't understand why you'd choose the second option.

  11. #11
    Plane Touched
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    it's not 30 seconds it's wipe after wipe. go learn don't be a noob

  12. #12
    Ascendant Laeti's Avatar
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    How is Trion making it easier for people to start solo guils responsible for new people not joining social guilds?.. I'm sorry but this "argument" is completely irrelevant. Solo guilds aren't looking for more people to join, they're not made for more people to join, they're made for convenience and storage purposes. Guild finder in Rift is obvious enough for any new player to find if they bother spending couple minutes exploring the UI after making their toon. If a person wants to join a guild - there's nothing stopping them, definitely not the solo guilds that were as easy to make years ago. The OP wasn't even asking for fight guides, all they're asking for is a ready check and a bit of politeness, which is apparently not in favor in social guilds anymore.

    @OP - jerks will be jerks, it's fair for any game; the fact that you warn your group before the first fight is enough for normal people to understand that you might need a bit more time to adjust than those who run the same dungeon for the 100th time. Ignore the jerks, don't ignore useful advice (if the advice is given in a rude manner - listen to the advice and then ignore the jerk). If you want to socialize - look into the guild finder, pick a guild that you like and join it. If you want to play solo - it's no problem either, but having people you enjoyed playing with on the friends list is always helpful if you're in need of assistance or want someone to group with.
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  13. #13
    Shadowlander
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    A few things that can help you:

    1. I think doing dungeons in DPS mode before going heals or tank helps you learn the mecanics so you are better prepared for the fights when you get into more trickier roles like healing and tank.
    2. Jerks will always be everywhere so you will stumble upon jerk pug groups and awesome pug groups.
    3. Joining an actvite guild (it's not always the biggest guilds that are more active) that you find friendly will help you do group stuff like dungeons, raids, rifts, etc.
    4. I tested my heal and tank specs in IA and rifts before doing dungeons just to get a feel of things and to optimize my layouts.

    Usually once you find a nice guild for you, they won't hesitate to explain the fights and give you tips to help you be better at what you do. I would also like to add here that a lot of people will do that no matter if you are in their guild or not but, like I said, in any games some players are jerks and won't explain anything.

    You do have to keep in mind to that prior to this xpac, experts were taking 10 to 15 minutes maximum. Now, if the group kills all the trash etc it takes close to 30 minutes. It's normal for lots of groups to want to zoom through stuff (most people will look at gear at the end of the instance or only are after the currencies) and, I believe, there is a way to do that without acting like jerks.

    I wish you luck!

  14. #14
    Soulwalker
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    The one thing I learned in rift or any mmo is to not upset the healer. The healer is what keeps the party alive and a healer can always be a jerk and let a dps die just cause they was annoying. For me any time I ran a dungeon no matter what spec if I did not know the dungeon I would stop and type regardless to let the group know. If that caused a wipe on trash at the start oh well it would of been the groups fault not my own.
    I would still suggest that if you are new to a dungeon the best advice really is to run it as a dps. That way you can learn the fights and the dungeon then you will be better when you heal it.

  15. #15
    Ascendant Meteorblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Currly View Post
    go learn don't be a noob
    For reference, during Nightmare Tide, I would regularly run at least 60 expert dungeons a week (10 on each of my six tanks). I would also advertise in 65 chat asking for people to join the groups and the advert specifically said that I didn't care what their hit was, just that they had to do vaguely useful DPS and not stand in bad. I ran that advert for well over six months.

    In Rift, I've tanked open-world, dungeons, experts and raids since as far back as 2011. Prior to that, I tanked on a warrior, paladin and death-knight in WoW for five years. Prior to that, I tanked on a paladin in Everquest 2. So, yeah, well over a decade experience of tanking, in multiple MMOs, and I get called a noob.

    Your comment is exactly the sort of attitude that the OP is complaining about, i.e. players like you are the problem.

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