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Thread: PvP gear progression, long-term goals and benefits for crafters and other players

  1. #1
    Ascendant Seshatar's Avatar
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    Default PvP gear progression, long-term goals and benefits for crafters and other players

    Hello everyone,

    With the recent focus towards PvP, I wanted to write down a suggestion to bring back a relevant PvP gear progression that I've had for quite a while now. The goal of this suggestion is to provide PvP players with a long-term goal to work towards, as well as creating additional benefits for other aspects of the game, such as crafting.

    The basic idea is to implement two additional tiers of PvP gear by creating upgrade paths for the existing PvP gear we have in the game since the expansion came out in 2016, as well as adding PvP planar fragment boxes for favor.

    Starting with the gear, it is important to have a high enough improvement in stats to make the gear appealing, while also not making PvP 100% gear dependent like it was back in Storm Legion. Personally, I think a 5% stat increase per tier achieves that goal. To upgrade the gear, the Challenger Marks, as well as Celestial Matrixes and Prophetic Amenders could be used as main upgrade components, this way also crafting rifts stay interesting and crafters also benefit from these changes.

    Tier 2 (epic) upgrade requirements:
    6 Challenger Marks
    3 Celestial Matrixes
    2 Prophetic Amenders

    Tier 3 (relic) upgrade requirements :
    12 Challenger Marks
    6 Celestial Matrixes
    4 Prophetic Amenders

    For 2-handed weapons double the amount of materials is required. While those upgrade requirements might seem a bit high at first glance, keep in mind the goal is to achieve long-term progression goals and only core PvPers are meant to achieve a full set of the highest tier.

    Now as Challenger Marks are capped to 6 per week, I think there should be also something to spend overflowing favor on. That's why I thought PvP planar fragment boxes could be added to the store. You could either add different tiers of the boxes with better fragments in more expensive boxes, or you just add one box for 100,000 favor that has 3 fragments inside with at least 1 fragment being guaranteed Tier 3 or better. Preferably you can choose between Mythical and Martial and you remove tank stats (except Endurance and max. HP) from them, to not have complete garbage fragments inside.

    Basically, that's it. It's quite a simple addition, but I think it will have a huge impact.

    Now going a little bit further, you could think about making this also appealing for other players, for example by using new and (at least for a while) PvP exclusive wardrobe appearances for the upgraded gear. PvP is always a bit show-off so I think both PvPers and wardrobe collectors will benefit from that (another thing to work towards). But I'd say this is optional and shouldn't delay the implementation of the base idea, which is far more important to give PvPers goals again and strengthen the PvP feature and community of the game again. When you then iron out the rest of the balance issues, I think PvP could soon be in a good spot again.

    Thanks for reading and feel free to leave your thoughts in the thread.
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  2. #2
    Ascendant Holyroller12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshatar View Post
    Now going a little bit further, you could think about making this also appealing for other players, for example by using new and (at least for a while) PvP exclusive wardrobe appearances for the upgraded gear. PvP is always a bit show-off so I think both PvPers and wardrobe collectors will benefit from that (another thing to work towards). But I'd say this is optional and shouldn't delay the implementation of the base idea, which is far more important to give PvPers goals again and strengthen the PvP feature and community of the game again. When you then iron out the rest of the balance issues, I think PvP could soon be in a good spot again.

    Thanks for reading and feel free to leave your thoughts in the thread.
    I want to make this clear by stating this is just my personal opinion, but I think PvP should have cosmetic incentives rather than multiple tiers of progression the way PvE does. The way they currently have it bolstered, the single set that PvPers get already makes a big difference vs people who don't have it as I'm learning first hand. The more tiers and bonus damage you start adding, the higher that wall gets for new pvpers to climb. This is what took place in storm legion with prestige gear. The players who were able to get rank 90 gear certainly deserved, but it got to a point where no amount of skill mattered unless you were close enough to or at rank 90 as well. Those players would absolutely steamroll entire teams because of it which pushed out a lot of potential newcomers.

    Nightmare Tide got rid of that and made it more about skill, but left absolutely nothing for pvpers to work towards and I think that's where there needs to be a middle ground. Have a certain amount of gear that is BIS for warfronts since PvE gear gets heavily bolstered, but don't make it so it's overly (not saying it should be easy or carebear lvls either) difficult to get and then add in some PvP exclusive armor and weapon sets at the level of current eternals (graphic levels I mean) so people who make it that high have something to show for it.

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  3. #3
    Rift Disciple
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    I quote you from Rift letter post :
    "All mounts and other cosmetics released in the past 6 months existed already before the acquisition, so it is questionable if there is any team for new assets left or if the remaining devs just have to recolor some old stuff in addition to their other tasks."

    ==>They will go lazy and just change the colors like you mentionned so no point asking for cosmetics for pvp sadly.


    To make you both agree a little more : actually to obtain PVP stuff you need marks which cost 100000 favor. It's quite long for player who only log few times(job, family, HOLIDAYS) so i suggest puting it to 10000 favor each (even those for 65 pvp stuff for pvp trinket) . That's way in few time players will have a more solid stuff.
    Stays the essences and fragments you can have on pvp box.
    With your idear new pvp stuff to look for which is not overpowered(5% per tier) and fragments you can purchase in store with favor==> good way to works on something.

    As a pvper i don't mind my actual pvp stuff being earned in shorter time by new players ==> what we need is more players to join warfronts in a more competitive environment !


    RIFT pvp is so fresh it will be a blast if more people joined. Gamingo just has to put some healing balances first then look at balance for damage classes.
    Last edited by sylaen; 06-28-2019 at 12:06 AM.

  4. #4
    Ascendant Seshatar's Avatar
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    I agree that PvP shouldn't be extremely gear dependent like it was in SL, however I think cosmetics won't be incentive enough for most PvPers.

    The advantage of PvP gear vs. non-PvP gear is quite big, however the basic blue PvP gear is not that hard to obtain.

    I think with a 5% increase of gear stats per tier, the advantage will be noticeable, but not game breaking. After all it means that only a FULL epic set will be 5% stronger than a full blue set, and that is only gear stats without base and other stats, so the total impact is even a bit lower. Class, skill and situational awareness will still be the determining factor, but if you play PvP actively you can improve and minmax.

    And with the bonuses being small, I think it's also ok to be 'hard to get', at least the higher tier. I mean in PvE you also have to work for the highest level gear, so should it be with PvP.
    twitch.tv/seshatar | Twitter: @Seshatar | HoT Discord | Discord: Seshatar#1337

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  5. #5
    Rift Disciple Lulutala's Avatar
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    First thing that needs to happen before more tiers of gear are added is fixing the fragment drop rate. Spending 15 minutes in a match to get a core when you win is a joke, they need to be removed from the loot table. Winning a warfront should give 2-3 frags and losing should give 1-2. Fragment boxes are a nice idea too.

    Coming back into pvp after two years and having crap fragments is one thing, I can't imagine starting with 0 pvp frags at this point. Going against people with two and a half years worth of farming with zero catch up mechanics will keep alot of potential players away, especially when they realise how bad the grind/Rng of fragment acquisition and stat rolls.
    Harrisonford

  6. #6
    Plane Walker Merlin666's Avatar
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    before they even think about gear progression in game they need to get back to balancing classes thru out game in pvp and pve, there was a reason why we had the unique play styles of the different roles and classes. no one should be questioned or belittled in pvp or pve environments for there choice of souls they are using. start making all souls do the same dps in respect to there roles in there own unique way ... I'm tired of hearing whether or not tempest is any good in this game. you have guide writers straight up telling people in other peoples guides not to play tempest in raid or will not be included in raids ... hmm, you know what happens when you tell someone they cant do something right? ... but its not just tempest affected by this type of thing, by the time anyone gets to end game there's only a very select few soul combinations that you are told you can play and you cant play the others cuz then you wont be included in groupings ... this seriously needs to be addressed way before anything else in this game. then after the souls do get balanced once and for all, delete old guides for builds that were affected in class guides. there is no sense in having a guide in class guides that gives the wrong info ...
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  7. #7
    RIFT Guide Writer Maltie's Avatar
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    Just make ELO shown again and add an ELO leaderboard
    Nixia@Greybriar]

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