+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 5 of 5

Thread: Too many abilities

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2018

    Lightbulb Too many abilities

    I love the promise that the soul system offers, but I get overwhelmed by the sheer number of abilities. Trying to use more than 4 or 5 abilities might be fine on a target dummy, but in an actual boss fight with adds & mechanics? It's not fun at all. Fights can still be challenging with movement, interrupts, target-switching, etc. without also having to watch kalerts for a bunch of dots, debuffs and others and risk messing up your whole rotation. You also shouldn't have to have macros to play a class effectively but it seems like a requirement currently.

    Would be nice if the roots of the soul trees were trimmed down to remove some abilities. Also there shouldn't be a 61 point ability forcing you to take every single talent. Makes the whole exercise a little meaningless. Removing talents might make the trees a little easier to balance too!

    My humble suggestions:

    Too many talents

    Remove 10 talents from each tree and then make the most useful abilities in the roots at 11, 21, 31, 41 points. 41 is as far as the roots go. At the same time lower the number of available points. 76 talent points is too much IMHO. Maybe go back to 61 by making level 1-30 only give you a point every second level? With 61 points you can have a spec like 41/20/0 (get the main talent in your favoured tree, plus significant benefits from another) or 30/31/0 (hybrid, with the main 31 talent from one) or 31/21/9, etc. Much more interesting than the current 61/8/7 we mostly see now where the other trees are largely fillers or bring one general buff. Yes this is similar to what another MMO looked like a few years ago but I think it works fairly well.

    Too many abilities

    I'd really like it if each tree only 5 abilities MAX that is their bread and butter, then others for certain situations e.g interrupts, snares, AoE. Any more and it's just a pain. People either don't want to use that tree much (defiler?) or just macro 10 abilities into one (1 button shaman)
    For instance I tried playing Inquisitor for a long time but it's just hard settling into the rhythm and it's not long before you have to re-apply one of your 4/5 dots. Forget paying attention to your environment or interrupting / purging! Maybe it's just because I suck but I'm sure some others feel the same. So remove some abilities and buff others? e.g. For inquisitor limit it to Bolt of Judgment, Bolt of Depravity, Vex, Scourge as your main single target abilities. That's 2 dots to keep up, a main spam attack and a reactive. Even that might be a bit much if you want to mix it up with another soul and get 1-2 abilities from there...

    Another potential re-imagining of the system is to have certain core abilities common to the whole class. For instance cleric might have a bolt & a dot & a melee attack, which talents in different trees add flavour to. Trees will still have their own new abilities but they also buff these core abilities. Inquisitor might add pure life damage to the bolt while cabalist adds death damage and a chance to chain to nearby enemies. Mixing and matching talents will affect the same ability so it does both! That way you can build a spec around a really powerful nuke by cherring-picking talents from different trees. Another spec might be focusing on buffing the dot at the expense of a weaker bolt - for example a pvp talent might add a slowing effect or a pve talent might add a chance to proc a bolt, etc. Melee-heavy builds would still have the weak bolt + dot for ranged attacks without having to put anything in the tree. Thinking out loud here only!

    I'm sure there are guys out there who like the challenge of 10+ abilities to keep track of but personally I'd like it if the skill came from paying attention and reacting to the raid / pvp environment rather than keeping track of lots of different abilities + cooldowns.

    Ok that's all I have to say thanks. Great game, really enjoying it.

  2. #2
    Champion of Telara
    Join Date
    Sep 2010


    I prefer a combat system with many abilities because it offers more combinations and more game depth. With the macro system these abilities can be managed reasonably and I don't know any spec you can't play well with 1- 8 buttons.
    You're right, however, there are too many pointless and unused abilities or even completely unused souls out there.

  3. #3
    Shield of Telara Skiye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011


    I'd suggest you look at the primalist class. It is sort of half complete compared to the older classes.

    With macros you can play quite a few top end specs with 2-3 buttons.

  4. #4
    Prophet of Telara Mordrahan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011


    OP, what you want would kill the only thing that makes RIFT different.
    We still have complex talent trees, and some choice (less than before, but still some choice).

    Play primalist, it is a half-tree, you should be happy with it.
    Or go back to wow, where talent trees were ripped of to nonexistence. They have what you want.
    But please, don't wish for our own destruction.

    Dimensions on Brisesol : Domaine Imari (Mordrahan) / Centre de recherches (Mordrahan) / Laboratoire glaciaire (Mordrahan) / Last hope (Aislyn) / Le refuge du Corbeau Rouge (Kasora) / Kelari spirit (Asri) / Ghost ship (Syel) / A la vie, la mort (Sadar) / Le chemin de l'harmonie (Sadar) / Temple Solaire (Sadar) / Refuge de montagne (Sadar)

  5. #5
    Plane Walker
    Join Date
    Jul 2014


    I've been able to sustain 15+ button rotations since 2011 and have done well in raids, only recently have I gone the "one button" route because frankly I just do not care anymore. (Was 13-14 at the time, had to google a lot of what the words meant) Personally, I enjoy having many abilities. It's not hard to be honest, you don't have to use every single ability within the soul. Some abilities are dead, you can macro the ogcd abilities making your life much easier. Then the abilities you can use, find the priority, and number it 1-x. Then put those abilities on your bar in ascending order corresponding to the number. I also don't see how it is complex considering you can read each ability. Granted that many tooltips are incorrect, but you can get the general understanding of the whole soul by playing it for 15-20m on a dummy, with varying play styles, rotations, macros, and specs. You don't need to use macros at all, you can do everything without a macro. Macros are just there to make things easier.

    The only time it gets complex is when you have to decide what ability would do more damage depending on the situation, boss health, cds, phase time, dot timers, and so on. These decisions need to be done in a split second. And this would only come from experience and muscle memory. At this point, you're pulling hairs as to how much dps gain you are attaining, even if its 100 more dps.

    What you're describing with "Fights can still be challenging with movement, interrupts, target-switching, etc. without also having to watch kalerts for a bunch of dots, debuffs and others and risk messing up your whole rotation" is LoL. LoL has 4-8 abilities to use, and you are a good player if you can react to the situation well and overcome the enemy. You can't implement a moba system into a mmo.

    That being said the backend of the soul system in Rift is not simple, however, understanding any soul is easy if you read it. Unless you have a mental disability which is a different story.
    In the wise words of my professor.. Did you read?

+ Reply to Thread


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts