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Thread: Necromancer's Possession

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    May 2016
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    Default Necromancer's Possession

    Hello. I have a few suggestions about the Necromancer Ability: Possession.

    (please take note, these are just my personal feelings on it, and I am not assuming ANYONE feels the same way I do.)

    For a 61-point ability, Possession feels extremely underwhelming and lacking in effectiveness. Sure, you get to take over your pet, get a 1 second global cooldown and an a few extra abilities for only 15 seconds. But the downsides FAR outweigh the benefits in my opinion. Here is why I think so:

    1) Having a 1 minute cooldown for something like this destroys the usefulness and potential of this ability, since the damage scaling of the abilities granted to you is the exact same as all the other basic abilities and abilities from other souls.

    2) Depending on the abilities, they have a longer cooldown than while you currently possess your pet. This can make things like effectively tanking with the Skeletal Knight pet next to impossible.

    3) With the only true benefit coming from the 1 second global cooldown for all abilities while possessing the pet, it severely cripples the entire Necromancer soul. Necromancer itself could benefit from having this ability MUCH earlier on in the tree.

    So here are some things I propose that would make it a very beneficial ability:

    1) Make this a Toggle-based ability with no cooldown. In doing so, you make this ability have so much more use and versatility, even for content such as dungeons and raids.

    2) Move it up to an 8-point requirement for the tree instead. This will make it so it's easier to access and use in other builds. Also, having it as an 8-point ability instead would make it far more viable for use at earlier levels, so players can have a better time getting to the higher levels faster. For later levels, it can be used to offer more abilities to your playstyle and give

    3) The two Skeletal Knight abilities during possession, called "Grave Touch" and "Bone Shatter" are great abilities for tanking. I would recommend reducing the cooldown of Grave Touch by 5 seconds and Bone Shatter by 10 seconds, that way they could be used more effectively for the Necromancer soul.

    4) As a final recommendation, I would do something similar to what was done with Druid. Depending on the pet you possess, you also get a certain buff.

    Skeletal Knight: 200% Increased Threat Generation and 25% increased Base Health, reduced damage by 25%.

    Skeletal Zealot: Attacks and Spells have a chance to deal additional [insert value here] - [Insert value here] Death Damage, at the cost of 10% more mana.

    Shadow Revenant: Reduced cast time of spells by 25%, but reduce Charge Generation by 50%

    Again, this is all just my opinion on Possession and just my personal suggestions. For those who read this entire long post, thank you for taking the time to read. I hope all goes well and I hope you all enjoy yourselves!

  2. #2
    Soulwalker
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    Aug 2014
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    I agree that Possession should be buffed and the soul in general. Currently I barely know anyone using necromancer besides questers (and that, when they are not geared). But you see geared elementalists because that soul is significantly stronger.

    Possession is a fun ability. That's it (at the moment). It offers a nice mechanic but the uptime and the dps it offers just aren't enough and thus, barely anyone uses it. Most non-mages don't even know such skill exists in the game.

    Your recommendations are nice but I believe in the end they would make the ability too overpowered.

    1) Definitely the uptime should be buffed. Toggle and no cooldown is nice. But then everyone would permanently possess a pet with granted abilities.That should be limited. I propose this ability be toggled with 5 sec cooldown AND be a slow charge consumer. Just like Lich Form, which offers a tranformation as well. I believe the charge rate
    consumed should be slower in Possesion than in Lich Form. In any case, this way you can have Possession used much more often and it has a cap so noone can stay indefinitely in that form.

    2) I agree that Possession should be moved down but not that much. 8-point will pretty much give access to the skill to every mage. That much versatility to every mage is op. Also, a mage should be proficient in the arts of possessing undead when he knows those arts well. It should still be high in the tree. I recommend around the 50 points. That way all ppl that have necromancer soul as their main soul would be granted this ability.

    3) About the tank pet abilities cooldowns. Sure, one would need them more often if he's going to tank with pet. I'm not sure how much those cooldowns should be reduced though. Maybe when reducing their cooldowns, the dmg from those abilities should be reduced to balance them out in the end. I'm not sure. Either way is fine by me. Besides, one would not care about the dps when he actually needs the taunt.

    4) Your recommendation here looks a lot similar to elementalist's Conduit of Power, which basically makes your combat pet like a companion (that just is alive and follows) and grants you a buff depending on pet. Ofc here we don't want the pet (which would be us if possessing) to be rendered in passive mode like in elementalist. Your recommendation is nice, indeed. But getting such a versatile toggle ability that grants buffs with 1 point is way too much gain. I recommend either an ability is added (to the skill tree/roots) that would grant a buff for an hour, which would give the appropriate pet buff ONLY when in pet form (so when not using possession the buff just does nothing), either make possession have a legendary version that if you choose to spend a legendary point on would, in addition, grant the appropriate buff ability ONLY when in pet form. In both cases have to spend 2 points.

    I know that I basically took your points and sort of *nerfed* them. But imo it's needed to have a balanced soul.
    I have a necromancer spec that I only use when questing. I have not spent enough points for to get the highest root skills, because I don't see them worth it. I would love to get Possession for a more fun gameplay, as well as make the spec viable for dungeons at least.

    What are your thoughts on my points?
    Last edited by Dragate; 08-14-2017 at 06:37 AM.

  3. #3
    Soulwalker
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    Hi Dragate!

    That is why I had all those recommendations, but I really do love all the points you brought up. If feel as though I did not do my best job at explaining things and you actually managed to help me formulate them better, so thank you. And to be honest, I understand the need for balance, so I wouldn't say you "nerfed" them, so much as given me a better understanding of balance. With that in mind, I do have a few responses:

    1) Toggle and no cooldown I feel is essential for an ability like this. Not only that, but since Necromancer itself does not have much in the way of offence for the first 8 points in, I feel that having access to the abilities of the pets and permanent possession would SERIOUSLY balance out the soul, since most of it's buffs are centered around your pet to begin with. Elementalist is balanced between pet AND caster. From what I see, Necromancer became too pet-heavy. Having the no cooldown and toggle ability 8-points in would help even this out. I do not agree, however, that it should be a charge-consuming ability, like Lich Form. If you look at a bunch of other souls in Mage that have toggles, a good chunk of them do not actually consume charge. Having the indefinite form would give Necromancer such a huge chance and balance in this sense as well. Also, many other souls have so many different toggles that almost cancel each-other out as well. Turn the Blade, from the Warrior's Paragon tree is a perfect example, as the speed you attack with almost completely nullifies the damage loss.

    2) I do not agree that having access to this many skills for a mage is OP. I feel as if, with the lack of variety and being forced to go so deep into the different trees in order to gain versatility is what is making me as a player, loose interest in Mage very quickly. I can use so many different combinations of souls for other character classes like Rogue and Warrior, and in some select cases, even Cleric. But with mage, I only have 2 builds out of 10 that have any versatility what-so-ever. And both those builds have Arbiter in them. I would not recommend even 50 points in, because then you loose SO MUCH potential for that ability itself, even for balance. Also, please take note, if someone has it 8 points in, and that's it, they don't receive the 1 second GCD (global cooldown) unless they have points invested enough into Necromancer for it (which I believe is 38). It's one thing to have the ability, it's another to master it's full potential.

    3) For the tank abilities, I am referring to the tanking abilities you get when you possess the Skeletal Knight. Since the damage for those abilities aren't particularly high, I would say MAYBE a 5% reduction then, 10% maximum, otherwise, it just becomes an utter, imbalanced mess for anyone who wants to tank.

    4) I realize that I was giving recommendations similar to Conduit of Power, which makes the pet like a companion. But those were just some examples. I agree that we should not render our pets passive in order to gain a buff. In which case I like your idea of having an ability that gives buffs based on the appropriate pet form, and only when possessing the pet. Maybe put that as the 51 point instead? That way you won't need to make Possession have a legendary version AND on top of that, it still follows the standards of balance and progression. The higher you go into the soul tree, the stronger your bond with your Necrotic Pet gets, and the more you two can do together.

    I do use Necromancer a lot and truth be told, I LOVE Necromancer, but I barely ever use it since Possession has such low usefulness and versatility where it currently stands at. In all honest truth, if Possession was just made an 8 point toggle with no cooldown, with access to the abilities, yet 15% reduced damage output, even then I would be happy, cause then it still offers SO MUCH MORE to the Necromancer playstyle as well.

    Those are my responses and I would love to hear from you again, and possibly anyone else's thoughts. Thank you for taking the time to respond and thank you for reading my long-winded post!

  4. #4
    Telaran
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Forlin View Post
    Blerb,
    You're asking for either a rework to the ability, or a complete rework to the entire soul.

    Pick one.

    Asking for the 61pt ability to be made available to literally every class combination one could think of for mage, by putting it only 8 points in, is, frankly, asinine. Even more so, by asking for it to become a permanent buff/toggle.

    Secondly, ya'll keep complaining that it doesn't have much uptime... You've picked the wrong legendaries then. As it stands, possession has a 45sec cd, but 15sec run time, of which that cd is counting down; which means in reality, it has a 30sec cd. -- at basically 30sec cd, that puts it at one of the best "burst"-based abilities in the game, as most are still behind 1min+ cd's. It's damage potential isn't on the same level, no... and if anything, that's what needs more working on. With 10 stacks of DC, simply spamming Plague Bolt does more damage than 3/4 abilities granted by possession. (Now add on to this, Legendary, for 60% more boost + L. Internalize Charge for 100% more again, which does not affect Rev's or Zealots abilities)

    Necromancer is NOT a tank. It is a dps spec. Asking for it to be able to do both, just by changing pets and tossing on possession would be completely broken; as with the 63 mastery, you could make this swap practically instantly every 30secs. And even if you could stay as a skeletal knight as long as you desired, you're STILL not a tank, as you're lacking the resistances, guard, blocking, mitigation cd's and so fourth that actual tanks get, and need. -- Give all those things in one all-combined 8point ability? Yeahhh, No.

    Possession as zealot and revenant are both dps gains, in their specific areas. Zealot for ST, Rev for AoE. What it comes down to, is that most things in Necro just arn't worth using at all, or are still broken.... And Possession, while weak, isn't amongst those. (I'm looking at you: Empty the Crypts and Mass Grave... 9k damage from EtC, and highest from MG a 30k crit? Come on now... and this is with L.Soul Bond active).

    As pointed out with PB earlier, Zealots only worthwhile because of Blood Spike; but it's still a gain. Rev, if you use it correctly, can get 2 full channels out of Master's Rage. You will end the transformation, but still be channeling it the second time around; as long as you don't clip it.

    Also, while in Possession, you lose ALL currently active pets (Main summon, Empty the Crypts, Mass Grave). - All of them... except for Parasite (who knows why). - Concurrently, who cares... They're crap. The only reason in even using them is to get more pet crits, to allow for more instant cast PB's. (I'll gladly trade that gcd to spawn a minion that does a whopping 9k, so I can get my 850k instant-cast crit PB). -- This, I feel, is a mistake. I understand it from a coding point of view however. Which, is one of the things that Legendary Soul Bond, was supposed to correct. But those minions are still extremely lackluster. It's also one of the counter-intuitive portions of the soul... Are we lord over lots of undead, or just a single undead lord ourselves? With the playstyle atm of alternating between the two... I think it would be easy enough to incorporate a) buffing the minions so they actually do some decent damage, b) further add a stacking buff given to the mage, for each successful ability hit used by his minions. This stacking buff gets saved for possessed pets abilities (and only his abilities), further pushing it's purpose as a "burst"-cd. (This can get tuned a number of ways...Allowing for flat damage increase of abilities, %dmg increase of abilities, *rolls eyes* or for the Knight %armor gain for X seconds after using Y ability, etc)

    A good portion of the soul still has problems and bugs a-plenty... But this, is primarily a working change towards just 3 abilities, to improve Possession. Without having to rewrite the entire soul that is also still thematic, based on the souls lore, and befitting of it's actual playstyle. (Lord of Undead minions; minions go siphon the vital essence of enemy; mage consumes this essence and becomes stronger.... EtC > MG > Possession).

  5. #5
    Soulwalker
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    May 2016
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    Alright Xethx... First of all, I am just going to ignore your remark of calling the ideas "asinine", the fact you did not properly quote AND your horrendous spelling errors. Secondly, your entire response just spelled out half the problem with this game as a whole, relying on too many burst mechanics, especially when it is not even applicable in certain areas OF the game itself.

    We don't have to pick one if we don't want to, this is a place of discussion with different players on how to figure out reworks for either the ability OR even the soul itself. So I am sorry, but you do not get to dictate what HAS to happen on someone else's post, and you can back off with that rudeness entirely.

    Alright, to start off on a better note: EVEN WITH a 45 second cool-down and a 15 second cool-down translating into a 30 second total cool-down, that is STILL foolish to even have at this point because you still loose SO MUCH potential, total, and CONSISTENT damage, which is what you need for RAIDING to begin with, along with some Dungeons, and even in some cases, questing itself.

    Master's Rage at this current point in time, is not the best "burst"-based ability in the entire game right now, Inquisitor alone has seen to that with the simple fact that all it's channels have their cool-down time reduced quite easily. Also, with the proper build, an Inquisitor can always unleash miniature bursts of damage before even having to resort to the channel-based bursts to begin with.

    I know that Necromancer is not a tank soul, and quite frankly, with your logic, the Skeletal Knight pet should not even exist then, which is even more asinine that what you stated previously. No, asking to be able to both IS NOT EVEN CLOSE to broken at all. I RUN a Tank + Tank pet hybrid build if ANYTHING, it makes tanking so much more fun, and makes it easier, in my opinion at least. Also, since your assuming someone is just going to always run a 61-point build ALL the time, WHICH THEY SHOULD NOT HAVE TOO, having the ability to switch so frequently, REGARDLESS is very useful, because then, unlike most 61-point builds, you have the ability to adapt to the different situations presented to you.

    Now to analyze your technical skill: Legendary Internalize Charge AND Legendary Soul Bond giving a total of 160% is a VERY nice idea, but here is your problem, you don't seam to have ANYTHING else added to make this even more powerful. to which case you could EASILY go into Elementalist for 4 points and get it's Legendary that deals damage of every element when an ability hits.

    Zealot and Revenant... damage per second gains... "in their specific ares." That's another problem. I am looking for a consistent damage gain as a whole in ANY aspect. Also, if your still only 61 Necromancer with all your Legendary abilities and you can only achieve 9000 damage from Empty the Crypts and 30,000 critical hit from Mass Grave, I would check and see what you are doing something wrong in your build, because I have seen much higher damage output from 61 Necromancer pets. EVEN then, the point was, that Possession is very weak for it's placement in the tree.

    "Zealots only worthwhile because of Blood Spike; but it's still a gain. Rev, if you use it correctly, can get 2 full channels out of Master's Rage. You will end the transformation, but still be channeling it the second time around; as long as you don't clip it."

    Only worthwhile because of Blood Spike.. Again... clearly you need to work on your skills with Necromancer as a whole. Soul Rend, along with all of the other Necromancer Damage over time and other skills, offer so much more even when combined together as a whole, and would offer even more IF possession was a toggled ability with no set duration instead.

    I do agree with you to an extent though, Loosing all currently active pets can possess a huge problem. HOWEVER, I do not agree with the need to sacrifice a 1 second GCD for a pet that aids in spamming Plague Bolt. That in itself is asinine, because by the time you have that setup completely charged and ready, you would already have lots of damage over time ticking off against you, Plague Bolt already being spammed at full strength on top of that, you would be dead or dying, forcing you to retreat instead of using your "burst".

    A good portion of the soul still has problems too, but they also have easy fixes as well. And the rework for possession that myself AND Dragate suggested would not interfere with with the theme at all, especially looking at the lore of it. Being a lord of the undead minions MEANS even being able to possess them for ANY GIVEN LENGTH of time, summon them for much longer periods than a simple 20 or even 30 seconds, using the minions to siphon an enemies life force and allow it's master to become stronger. Possession being reworked into a toggle would fit this theme very well.

    Thank you for taking the time to read and respond. But next time, if your going to have a proper, educative discussion, here on the forums, please refrain from calling someones idea's asinine, and properly quote them if you choose to use quotes in your reply. If you choose to not have a proper, educational discussion, and decide that you know everything and you think you know what is best, then by all means, take your resume and apply to Trion for a job in coding with that attitude and see how fast you will get turned down.

    With all this in mind, have a wonderful day/night (depending on your timezone), and please, next time you reply, go over your spelling and grammar, change your wording up a bit and refrain from using words such as "asinine", as it can give across the wrong impression when used in certain context.

  6. #6
    Plane Touched
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
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    After hearing degrading gimp comments for years from raiders and even my guilds that i joined with, i look forward to improvements for this soul.

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