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Thread: The illusion of choice and theory on why this poilcy wont change

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default The illusion of choice and theory on why this poilcy wont change

    much of you already know how the current "meta" revolves around 61 points in one tree. Most the time i am left wondering why do i have 3 souls when i rarely get to use them for useful skills. This creates very little choice in other trees usually around 10 points on one and 5 points in another. Much of it comes from the fact you do not gain much if any benefit from going half way in a tree. What i would like to see is a change in policy that would give you unique skills for training in 2 or more tree so there is actual more unique characters that choose combining souls rather than just filler souls that you see now. Sadly, I doubt this will happen mostly because powerful people want to eliminate any creative or "critical thinking" content from mainstream games. Most of your are probably thinking thats crazy or not possible but the simple fact is money talks so if people with money want to make games dumber they are going to have alot more success than random people with no real say in the matter.

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple
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    Not all specs that are part of the current meta are 61 point builds. For rogues, the 38/38 NB/Sin build and 44/32 Phys/Tact build immediately come to mind, and those are just for mainstream PvE. PvP has some fun ones like 40/24/12 NB/RS/BD.

    Yes, 61 point builds have powerful root abilities. This is by design. If they didn't, then an exact mirror to the situation you describe would arise, where there is no point in going that deep into a tree.
    Sagittare@Deepwood | Harlakk@Deepwood | Lexicus@Deepwood
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  3. #3
    Champion of Telara
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    Actually the choice exists. You either go cookie-cutter or you don't.

  4. #4
    Rift Master IonCannon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sagittare View Post
    Not all specs that are part of the current meta are 61 point builds. For rogues, the 38/38 NB/Sin build and 44/32 Phys/Tact build immediately come to mind, and those are just for mainstream PvE. PvP has some fun ones like 40/24/12 NB/RS/BD.

    Yes, 61 point builds have powerful root abilities. This is by design. If they didn't, then an exact mirror to the situation you describe would arise, where there is no point in going that deep into a tree.
    To add to your point almost all top end Mage DPS specs use hybrids that utilize 41SC and 3X harb, lock, or necro.

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  5. #5
    Telaran
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    Tact/Marks hybrid is my preferred AE spec for rogues too. Even if you are dumping 61 points in a tree though your remaining 15 can have a huge impact on how you play. For warriors you can throw 11 into tempest for Jolt and the ranged autoattacks and have 4 remaining to get the Warlord or Riftblade buffs for minor survivability or 10% run speed boost. With rogues 15 into physician can be huge for survivability (16 if you want biofeedback) or for mages chloro and warlock have great options for those extra 15 points.

    I think the key thing to keep in mind is simply that not everything works together perfectly. The soul trees are designed to work with each other in some areas but not in others, so you can't just put 25 points in 3 random souls and expect it to come out great. There are a lot of options out there for people who like theorycrafting and trying to come up with new ways to play, but at the same time you do have to actually pay attention to what you're putting points into.

  6. #6
    RIFT Guide Writer
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    Quote Originally Posted by zanerken View Post
    much of you already know how the current "meta" revolves around 61 points in one tree. Most the time i am left wondering why do i have 3 souls when i rarely get to use them for useful skills. This creates very little choice in other trees usually around 10 points on one and 5 points in another. Much of it comes from the fact you do not gain much if any benefit from going half way in a tree. What i would like to see is a change in policy that would give you unique skills for training in 2 or more tree so there is actual more unique characters that choose combining souls rather than just filler souls that you see now. Sadly, I doubt this will happen mostly because powerful people want to eliminate any creative or "critical thinking" content from mainstream games. Most of your are probably thinking thats crazy or not possible but the simple fact is money talks so if people with money want to make games dumber they are going to have alot more success than random people with no real say in the matter.
    This post is actually just wrong. There is a lot of choice in this game, and, while you need the highest potential builds if you are doing the most cutting edge content, there is still plenty of experimentation in this game. Others here have posted about some of the commonly knowen hybrids. I would also like to point out a few more that are frequently run. Dom/arb is a beast in pvp. Pyromentalist is alright in dungeons for those who for comp/ability reasons can not run other mage specs, and my personal favourite chloro/harb for solo play and healing content you out gear. I am certain every class has builds like these, but w/e "hates gonna hate, hate, hate. players gona play, play, play."

  7. #7
    Soulwalker Kamiraje's Avatar
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    Lightbulb It'd be work...but....

    I wouldn't mind seeing something that links souls together. What I mean by this is, lets say I take 10 points into Puri and then 10 into Warden (Cleric souls, for those who dunno), maybe then it unlocks the 'option' to point spend into a new thing, something that creates a decent combo between Puri+Warden, maybe an AoE heal that drops a small shield on-top as well, or a small AoE HoT+Shield *shrug* just examples, but I think that hybrids could go so much deeper and become so much more. Maybe that's just me though, and as someone said (loosely) 'Da people with da cash gonna make da choices however they wanna' lol

    Any thoughts on my idea? Would love to hear them (unless it's flame, in which case I have a hose and a bucket of water as backup, lol)
    Anjuraje (Wolfsbane) Cleric
    Mikhale (Wolfsbane) Mage

  8. #8
    Ascendant Artewig's Avatar
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    Yeah I've been thinking about this a lot too. For all of the classes, there is usually a top spec or a couple top specs. I started playing around with Marksman to see what kind of numbers I could generate. Problem is, abilities like Calculated Shot and Free Recoil come at the end of the tree so it doesn't give you a lot of options that wouldn't reduce performance by too much. Now, with those last 15 points, You more or less have to put most of them in Ranger. I tried many specs, moving the points around and trying to minimize the loss with alternatives. Those points in Ranger don't give you anything besides more firepower. However, what if I was willing to sacrifice a few thousand dps to be able to pick up more utility, like a second interrupt? It seems like it would create a new thought process to builds and strategies. Obviously there has to be a top spec, but I think it would provide a nice change to the game rather than looking up the top spec and learning it. And what better time to consider changing trees/souls around than while a whole new calling is being created?

  9. #9
    RIFT Guide Writer
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    Quote Originally Posted by IonCannon View Post
    To add to your point almost all top end Mage DPS specs use hybrids that utilize 41SC and 3X harb, lock, or necro.
    We have what now? ****ing 12 end-game hybrid specs that are all raid viable?
    Meciel - Mage - Defer Death - Greybriar
    12/12 T1, 14/15 T2, 1/9 T3

  10. #10
    Rift Master IonCannon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evantide View Post
    We have what now? ****ing 12 end-game hybrid specs that are all raid viable?
    Just between DPS and Support I count 9 raid viable hybrid specs. Mind you on the DPS side 41SC is just so OP...

    DPS:
    SC/Necro
    SC/Lock
    SC/Harb
    SC/Dom (threngar)

    Support:
    Archon/SC
    Archon/Harb
    Archon/Pyro v1 (support oriented)
    Archon/Pyro v2 (DPS oriented)
    Archon/Dom (threngar)

    IonCannon@Deepwood
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