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Thread: Advanced Class-System: 7 insted of 4

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default Advanced Class-System: 7 insted of 4

    this is an idea of how, we could re-balance our current Class: Warrior, Cleric, Rogue, Mage in RIFT. As RIFT has grown over the years, we already got our new super-cool roles, from Stom Legion and fromt he Dream Soul Package. But what if we could get a bunch of new Classes with a bunch of new Souls (Roles)?. Basicly the idea is to divide a few of our current loved and played classes into totally new classes. With this way the door is open and Trion and the Community, can have much more creative room, to create totally new Souls (Roles) for the classes.


    RIFT's Classes after the Change:

    Warrior: The new Wariors wear plate armor and are mainly balanced around mellee combat, strenght and attack power. Warriors have a huge fighting will and are able to deal massive up tremendous aboumt of single target damge as Paragon (ST, 2x1h-Weap) or Berserker(new: ST, 2H-Weap) and massive amounts of area of effect damage as Champion. Warriors can well support their group during Instances and Raids as a Beastmaster. Even if Warriors do not wear a one handed weapon and a shield, they are a loyal Tanks for the group as Warlord and will do all what it takes to get the job done. Due to their story and the Warriors massive strength and huge fighting will, Warriors do not have Healing Class.



    Knight: The all new Knights wear the all new Reinforced Plate armors and are mostly balanced around defense and sustain. Knights have a huge protective will and are great and loyal Tanks as Paladin or Void Knight. With the Cursader (New: Spiked Mace and Shield) and Reaver, Souls, Knights are able to dea heavy up to great amounts of single target or area of effect long range death damage. With the priestish Liberator, Knights are able to heal as a loyal Healer their group while wielding a 2H Hammer. As a Commander they can decently support their group.



    Rogue: The new Rogues wear Reinforce Leather Amor and use dual wield weapons or a Crossbow and are mainly balanced around mellee combat, dextrenity and attack power. Rogues have an enourmous fighting will and are able to deal tremendous amounts of damge. Even if rogues are in general great damge dealers, they can well Suppor their group as a Barde and are loyal tanks as Riftstalkers. With the Shadwostalker (nearly like Ranger w/o pet) Rogues are also able to deal some long range damge with their all new Crossbow. Due to their fighting will and story, rogues do not have a healing class



    Hunter: The all new Hunterrs wear Leather Armor and attack preciely from long range with their Bows and Guns and are able to deal tremendous amout of damage as Ranger or Marksman. As Saboteur the place bombs and are able to deal devastating amound of area of effect damage. Hunters are able to Support their group well as a Technican and are able to heal the group they are in well as Physician. Due to their Story and pure balancing around dealing long range damage hunters are not able to tank.



    Mage: Mages wear cloth armor and cast their attacks from range and are able to deal trmendous upto davasting amounts of damge depending on the sould (role). With the Archon and Dominator, Mages can supprot their group well as a balanced supporter class. With the Chloromancer Mages are great and loyal Healers. Due to story, intelligence and will to fight, mages do not have tank class anymore!. Due to the loss of the Arbiter, Mages will now get the all new Sorcerer which is a new healing class like nearly like the Purifire.



    Cleric: Clerics wear Reinforced Chain armors and cast their attack from long range or mellee range. Clererics are in general great healers, and loyal tanks as Justicar. They foucus in wisdom and can support their group as Oracle an can deal massive up to tremendous amount of single target and area of effect damage, depending on the class.



    Shaman: The all new Shamas wear chain armor and are mainly balanced around long range combat, Intelligence and spell power with decet endurance. Shamans are able to suffer decently more damage than other caster classes and are able to deal with their casts tremendous amounts of damge. With the all new Witch Doctor, Class: Shamas are able to Support their group well with Buffs and Totems and are also able to care some wounds with their healing totem. With the all new Mystic Shamas are able to deal devastating amounts of area of effect damge, as they crush down Burning Meteors and Scalding Hail from the sky and set their enemies a blaze with Burning Hell. While in combat Mystics are abel to Buff their groups mellee and magical dmg. With the ex Mage Class, the Necromancer, Shamans call the undead as pets in order to deal damage. With the reworked Arbiter, Shamas can Transform either into a Melle Form to deal damage or into a Undead Golem with a Sword and Shield to Tank. While in the Tank form, Shamans requier tank gear and DPS-Gear while in Damge Form. Due to the Shamas brutalized mind and will to fight and siege, shamas do not have a healing class.




    Where will my old Class Go?

    This Suggestion will requier to release the cash shop souls for free otherwise classes will lag in souls when this update would go alive.

    N=New, T=Tank, D= DPS, S=Support, H=Healer

    Warrior: Champion (D), Paragon (D), Beastmaster (S), Berkserker (N/D), Warlord (N/T)

    Knight: Paladin (T), Void Knight (T), Liberator (H), Reaver (D), Crusader (N/D), Commander (N/S), Ravager [nearly: Shaman, (D)]

    Rogue: Assassin (D), Bladedancer (D), Nightblade (D), Riftstalker (T), Barde (S), Shadowstalker(N/D)

    Hunter: Marksman (D), Ranger (D), Saboteur (D), Tempest (D), Technician (S), Physician (H)

    Mage: Pyromancer (D), Stormcaller (D), Elemtalist, (D) Harbringer (D), Chloromancer (H), Sorcerer (N/H), Archon (S), Dominator (S)

    Cleric: Cabalist (D), Inquisitor (D), Warden (H), Sentinel (H), Purifier (H), Justicar (T), Oracle (S) Avenger (D) [previous named: Shaman]

    Shaman: Witch Doctor (N/S), Arbiter (N: D/T), Mystic (N/D), Nercomancer (D), Druid (D)



    New Character Stats: Guard, Assist (new) and Care (new)
    Guard, Only for Tanks: decreases incomming damage and increases players healing around the tank (Max Value: 10%)

    Care, Only fo Healers: Increases healing and absoprtion granted and increases the healers crit rate (Max Value: 10%)

    Assist, Only for Support: Increases the length of the supporters buffs. Increases the parties damage (Max Vlaues: 5%/15s)



    How is the update done?
    Every Player will reicive a Job-Change Token and a Equipment-Change Token, which allows the Player to change his/her Character to the Class they do want to play. Once the Player successfully changed to the Class they want to play, they will reincive an Equipment-Change Token which transfers the Players Equipment into an equivalent Equipment for the new Class. Players who bought the SL Souls and the Dream Souls will reiceve some titles, awards a unique amphibous mount a unique wardobe



    Positvie Effects:
    A system with classes which is balanced around what they can do best, is in gneral easier to maintain and easier to balance. With that new class system, RIFT would get some fresh air and a bunch of new class. This suggestional update gives Trion and the Community huge creative room to create and design new outstanding cool classes. If this update would hit in the future, it would truly be something new, as this suggestional update would be totally new to everyone, either to those who just started or those who play RIFT since long time. Each class is balanced around what each class can do best.


    Negative Effects:
    Everyone will requier a totally new Chracter-Build. Some classes would lag in souls compared to other classes, as it would take time for Trion and the community to create and design new classes. Villages would need to be extended with Class-Trainers for the new Classes. No one can be everything anymore.

  2. #2
    Ascendant
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    Rift balance problem comes from having too many callings. Imo all should be merged in to 1, so people can play w/e they want or their raid needs and Devs can balance easier as you can easily see which spec would be the most OP.


    Simplify the armor and weapon stats to:

    - power (count for sp and ap)
    - crit chance (count for phys crit and spell crit)
    - CP
    - procs or passives

    Limit the sub soul option to Warrior + Rogue and Cleric + Mage for balance purposes.


    This way players can easily switch to w/e they want to play and they wont have the problem with the gear due to above mentioned changes.
    PvP in RIFT is good only @forum.

  3. #3
    Shadowlander
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    First of all i have to say that it took time to come up with a serious idea, as this is going to be be serious suggestion for RIFT to bring fresh air an needed improvements.


    An MMO should be an interesting and also at some point challanging experience and not something where everyone is basicly the same with different armors and weapons. Imagaine how Lord of the Rings would be if Gimmly stays with his Axe back and heals the group while wielding it and Gandalf would beat the hell out of everyone in mellee combat with his thin wooden staff ... well u could at least call it: lord of lol

    Due to the simple fact that trion has chosen a system where every class is the same and can play every role, we are having the current issues with the classes. Our system is more like a scale to blanace it we would be forced to bring the scale to neutral. which means every class would need to be nearly the same. Seening the current class system from this point of view u will understand that the current system has no room for creating and desinging classes, as every role from every class must be excatly as good as the others.

    With an old school system the classes are balanced around what they historicly where and also balanced around on what they can do best. Classes are needed to get a certain job done thats why Events/Raids etc where filled with a mix of people. It also lead to play together as you remered players for playing certain classes.

    Today that spirit is gone as everyone can be everything.
    Last edited by ArKthur; 01-12-2015 at 04:21 PM.

  4. #4
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    Hate to be 'that guy' and I know you actually put a little bit of thought into this... but you're essentially asking for Rift's class, combat and itemization systems to be torn down and rebuilt from the ground up. At this stage in proceedings there isn't a snowball's chance in heck of that happening - it'd almost be akin to the creation of a whole new game.

  5. #5
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    I won't sugar coat my downward spiral interest in PvP (the reason I started playing Rift) and raiding when hybrid specs became obsolete. Maybe I am old fashion but their is pride in playing a certain faction, race and class that pulls me into a game pretty quickly if it exists strongly in the character make up. Their is also a pride in being able to find the variant of the chosen class that suits your game style and exceeds expectations which Rift once had. 3 years later their are so many aspects of our game that keep me smiling but as Kedon said Rift would require a complete overhaul to implement what you suggest.

    Often I think wouldn't it be cool to have traditions mixed with modern say the triad roles of MMO's but if you changed your armor - 5 pieces of cloth on a chain wearing cleric 2 more specializations become available (etc) to add to your cleric abilities.

    Choices are always important but ones that mean little but take up my time irritate me. Choices that are stratergy changing are mind blowingly fun even before I kill someone or something.

  6. #6
    Ascendant July13th's Avatar
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    I do not think something like this will happen. It would be too much work. In my opinion I would rather just have one calling and have souls work similar to how ArcheAge does. some neat ideas though.

  7. #7
    Ascendant Pork Star's Avatar
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    You're suggesting a complete overhaul of the class system. No MMO is going to do that based on some loose suggestions from a random player.

    Hell, I doubt they'd even do it at the suggestion of a senior dev. It's just plain too much work, with zero guarantee of improving the game.

  8. #8
    Rift Chaser Rahak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArKthur View Post
    snip
    might be the opposite of what needs doing honestly

    like alwayshealneverdie said, the problem is too many callings really, which is a nightmare for balance

    it would have been fine if there were more developers allocated to managing such things, but as it stands they've had to take shortcuts like killing off hybrids, leaving some souls horribly outdated, and effectively shoehorning people into the same 5 builds or so for each calling
    Last edited by Rahak; 01-13-2015 at 09:59 PM.
    stormhak stormbar stormkvinde kagestorm stormelver

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    Telaran Anarial's Avatar
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    "wHAT DO U m34N 5 specs!" The general population says as Inquisitors, Physicians, Stormlock/Stormbingers, Rangers, and Arbiters run around spamming their 1 to 3-button macros

  10. #10
    Shadowlander
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    nice that you guys took you're time typed down you're oppinions.


    The main reason to come up with this suggestional class change is to, to have more classes, to have more room to create new classes, a systems where all current souls would be free to access for all players and which also easy to balance.

    That beeing said, we would not be in need in first place to create new stuff. At first we would have to puzzle around with our current Roles where each role would fit in the Class-System.

    Warriors would be focused on physical damage
    Knights more like a WoW'ish Paladin
    Cleric our good old Hybrid
    Rogue good old rogue
    Hunter pure physical long range for those who like
    Mage good old mage
    Shaman baciyl an inbtween of Cleric and Mage with a bit more HP

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArKthur View Post
    nice that you guys took you're time typed down you're oppinions.


    The main reason to come up with this suggestional class change is to, to have more classes, to have more room to create new classes, a systems where all current souls would be free to access for all players and which also easy to balance.

    That beeing said, we would not be in need in first place to create new stuff. At first we would have to puzzle around with our current Roles where each role would fit in the Class-System.

    Warriors would be focused on physical damage
    Knights more like a WoW'ish Paladin
    Cleric our good old Hybrid
    Rogue good old rogue
    Hunter pure physical long range for those who like
    Mage good old mage
    Shaman baciyl an inbtween of Cleric and Mage with a bit more HP
    That would require reduction of abilities in each class, else barrier for new players to learn all these abilities would be way too big.
    PvP in RIFT is good only @forum.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rahak View Post
    it would have been fine if there were more developers allocated to managing such things, but as it stands they've had to take shortcuts like killing off hybrids, leaving some souls horribly outdated, and effectively shoehorning people into the same 5 builds or so for each calling
    This is not the developers' fault, but the community's and their mentality. When performance is the main drive behind progress, then players try to increase that. Selecting the most suitable spec is one of those means. Unfortunately, the most frequent mentality of a lot of players ranging in the entire spectrum of total scrub to world class raider is that anything below the absolute best is crap. So if you want players to use a variety of specs, then you have to give each of those specs a special niche in which they excel, and make them average in all other areas.

    Players do not want to admit it, but this is the exact and only reason that the WoW class system was simplified. Do you guys remember how it was in TBC all the way to the end of Cata? It was either FotM or get the fudge out (edit: why are the initials censored as a word -.-). Your class didn't have any spec performing within 5% of the best possible spec of any class in the game for that tier? You'd be lucky if they allowed you on ventrillo to listen to them wiping/progressing while you were online with your alt farming materials, and being used only for alt-runs or farm modes. Rift at least gives the freedom of actually switching not just spec for the same role, but role entirely for every calling.

    Let's bring an example. Let's suppose that Pyro is for a tier the highest parsing mage soul. Every dps mage will flock to it. This makes all other specs useless. So what do we do? Do we buff the other souls to the level of Pyro? Let's see how that would work out. Necromancer buffed to Pyro dps levels? Why use Pyro then when you have the same performance AND significantly better utility? Buff Stormcaller to match Pyro's single target damage? Why use Pyro then when you can have both awesome ST AND AOE performance. So Pyromancer would become obsolete and Pyro players would request for a buff.

    Boy I went off topic there, didn't I? Anyway, I am against the proposal of the topic creator simply because it would change one of the fundaments of the game. The idea is not bad, it's actually something that can work nicely. But it'd have to go on a new game.
    Last edited by Dark Mits; 01-18-2015 at 11:53 PM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Mits View Post
    Unfortunately, the most frequent mentality of a lot of players ranging in the entire spectrum of total scrub to world class raider is that anything below the absolute best is crap. So if you want players to use a variety of specs, then you have to give each of those specs a special niche in which they excel, and make them average in all other areas.
    I don't think that's true in the slightest. From both high-end and low-end raiding, I've seen players play suboptimal specs because they weren't skilled enough to play the harder specs. I've seen lesser geared players beat members of top 5 guilds in parses. I sat around as the supreme master of LE while it happened. It was hilarious to watch someone with 8 relics, greaters and damn close to full BiS gear lose to someone who barely had any raid gear, and only one raid weapon in a dw spec. Yet the better geared person won during the easier spec parse.

    And it was seen all throughout the game life using 36/30 instead of 28/38 during HK because I guess Defilemancer was hard or something. Or even MM over melee at pretty much any point in Rift's history. Or people using Necrolist over any of the Harb variants. Except for that one stretch of time when Necrolist was the highest parsing spec because of double-dipping pet GCD reduction. That was fun.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scaramuccia View Post
    I don't think that's true in the slightest. From both high-end and low-end raiding, I've seen players play suboptimal specs because they weren't skilled enough to play the harder specs. I've seen lesser geared players beat members of top 5 guilds in parses.
    Assuming that both players had the same duties, that says more about the relevant skill of those players, which means that if the lesser geared player had near full BiS like the other one, they'd be blowing them out of the water. Also playing a suboptimal spec because you can play it better than the optimal one is valid as long as the guild you're in tolerates it. Progression oriented guilds where numbers matter more than players will not give you a second chance on that.

    The issue is the mentality that players should learn to play the optimal spec and use that, simply because better performance means higher chances of success. You do that and you progress, you don't do that and you may get left out. Survival of the fittest.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Mits View Post
    Assuming that both players had the same duties, that says more about the relevant skill of those players, which means that if the lesser geared player had near full BiS like the other one, they'd be blowing them out of the water. Also playing a suboptimal spec because you can play it better than the optimal one is valid as long as the guild you're in tolerates it. Progression oriented guilds where numbers matter more than players will not give you a second chance on that.

    The issue is the mentality that players should learn to play the optimal spec and use that, simply because better performance means higher chances of success. You do that and you progress, you don't do that and you may get left out. Survival of the fittest.
    In RIFT case, survival means cattering to casuals ;)
    PvP in RIFT is good only @forum.

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