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Thread: Fixing the PvP gearing disparity

  1. #1
    Sword of Telara
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    Sep 2014
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    Default Fixing the PvP gearing disparity

    I can't see any way that the current PvP gearing method is fair, or any reason why it shouldn't be equivalent to what you'd gain through NTEs. Right now people are able to take raid epics into PvP and any essences they like and not be bolstered down. Pure PvPers have gone from having PvP BIS gear obtainable only through PvP to having people running around with gear that is giving them advantages that cannot be obtained from PvP alone. Even after a few months people are using armor that would take the pure PvPer years to get through just their raid marks.

    Many have interpreted it as a slap in the face to PvPers: I can't for the life of me see why PvP gearing should be left in the state it is now unless the intention is to force people into PvE/raiding. If that is the intention then it'll become obvious if nothing is done to resolve it, but all this is just an aside really: this thread is about the least development way I could see to fix the gearing issue to a reasonable level of fairness to make life better for those who have no interest in venturing in dungeons.

    This is long, and for those who love a TL;DR:
    Spoiler!


    Right now, from NTEs:
    • You tend to gear up fully with blues which are above the bolster floor reasonably quickly.
    • You have a shot at an epic from the boss. Trinkets are rare, though.
    • You may queue specific dungeons once per day in the hope of getting a specific item.
    • You get manugo decrees from bosses sometimes.

    For the sake of some numbers, assuming that each calling's items drop with an equal chance and there are two people needing each item in the party, then for every NTE you run you'll come away with:

    No rares = 7/8 * 7/8 * 7/8 * 7/8 = ~58.6%
    One rare = 1/8 * 7/8 * 7/8 * 7/8 * 4 = ~33.5%
    Two rares = 1/8 * 1/8 * 7/8 * 7/8 * 6 = ~7.2%
    Three rares = 1/8 * 1/8 * 1/8 * 7/8 * 4 = ~0.6%
    Four rares = 1/8 * 1/8 * 1/8 * 1/8 = ~0.02%

    No epics = 7/8
    One epic = 1/8

    Of course, you can get duplicate items, but without knowing the droprates of everything on the dungeon tables I can't account for any of that. In any case, it'll be blatantly obvious to anybody who has played a few NTEs and done enough warfronts to get the same number of useless marauder items that NTEs are far, far better than the warfronts. The item drop rate from marauder caches must surely be less than 20%, and that's an item which is weaker than an NTE blue drop and may have useless stats, too.

    So, the problems with the WF boxes are:
    • The gear comes out the boxes with stats which are below the bolster threshold. Why should you have to pay to upgrade stuff to their equivalent NTE standards?
    • You have to spend too much to upgrade it to NTE tier gear. I mean really, staffs take a whopping 68k crusader's marks to upgrade: it's absolutely ridiculous! Yet you can just roll NTEs and get equivalent tier gear without needing any of it, providing you get lucky enough.
    • Most of the gear you get is junk. I see no practical use for gear with higher End than main stat and no block/dodge/guard to go with it. And about 85% of the gear I have got from boxes of this type falls into this category.
    • You can't get true tank gear. Not much else to say about this one.
    • You don't get manugo rep. It's not fair!
    • Long warfronts still yield only one box. It's stupid to have it be more efficient to soul recall out of BA and the like.

    Saying that, there are a few things that the lockboxes have over PvE alternatives:
    • You get a very small chance at lockbox-unique minions, but the drop rate seems to be much, much lower than the items.
    • You can get essences from your lockboxes. They can be greater or lessers. These seem to cap out at ~180 End (low main stat and no sub stat with AP/SP or CP) or 136 main stat. Not sure how the greater procs compare, I haven't been looking at the PvE greaters closely. Anyway, these are still a lot weaker than the NMR achievement essences, which do not ever appear to be bolstered down.

    So, in an ideal world, I'd propose this:
    1. Bolster down gear above NTE epics. PvPers can't get raid gear aside from currency stuff, and even then upgrading it is a mess. Either way, the time taken to get that amount of currency is... painful. Sort out the lower end mess first, deal with that bit later.
    2. Change the way boxes award gear. Divide up the warfronts into six groups, as there are six NTEs right now: each group should resemble a dungeon's drops. Each needs a drop table like the NTE it corresponds to, for both three sets of blues and one of epics.
    3. Change the gear dropped by boxes:
      1. Take out the weird/useless items and replace with proper tank gear. I can't see how having tank gear be a PvE exclusive is any kind of "gear unification"...
      2. Reduce the variety of drops a bit. It's not fair to have crazy CP gear obtainable via PvP only, which is actually the case currently if you have the time to upgrade it without giving up PvP forever out of sheer frustration.
      3. Make the upgrading equivalent to NTE drops.
    4. Smooth out the map occurence rate and box drop rates so that you recieve approximately the same chance of getting a box from each map and at the same rate. Easier said than done, I know.
    5. Make it possible to recieve one box per day from queuing a specific warfront group. This one-per-day-ness should be shared with the group's corresponding NTE, so you can't get the bonus twice by queuing the specific dungeon AND the warfront. Then it's even with NTEs in terms of pure-RNGness.
    6. Balance the gear drop rate so it's actually remotely competitive to that of NTEs.
    7. Add manugo decrees to boxes. I don't know what the rate is for NTEs, but balance it out please, including the chance to recieve multiple in one go. Oh, and you could add the minions to the NTE end chests too I suppose, but keep them rare.
    8. (Optional, but much preferred): Add a way for people who have upgraded existing marauder items to get some of the cost back. Maybe something to let them upgrade them into NTE blue equivalents for free, too...?

    I see one major difference that this still poses: Essences. The above should turn PvP gearing into a dungeon equivalent, but as you get essences through NMRs it's not really equal to keep them in the same system. The NMR system can be summarised as follows:
    • Rewards having high gear to begin with. 1k+ hit usually to get into instances for III and V.
    • Once unlocked, you can then buy account-bound essences so you don't have to do it again with another character. There are 3 DPS and 3 tank essences from III and another set from V.
    • Getting tradeable essences is very much an RNG process, and you are also not limited to getting essences for your own calling.

    This is essentially impossible to reproduce, as it's a separate activity which sort of has gear requirements. You also have to spend time making a group for it rather than queuing. So, I don't see anything much in the way of options, aside from bolstering anything above max upgrade dreambreaker essence standards, and leaving them in. What you can't get equivalents of through PvP doesn't deserve to have its stats remain in place. The thing that remains to be determined is how to get the essences, and any method would leave some imbalances.

    You could get the essences by:
    • Favor with or without prestige requirement.
    • Random rare chances from boxes.
    • Conquest wins.

    These could also have further upgrade levels to bring them up to NMR standards, requiring any number of the above three points.

    In any of these cases, this leaves problems:
    • Favor/prestige methods encourage segregation (see below)
    • NMR achievement essences are account bound and need only planarite/stones.
    • You get essences through NMR that you can't use but can sell.
    • You can get essences by doing something which rewards you gear.


    Honestly, at the moment I'm thinking the best thing to do is to move the essences to Conquest and bolster down anything above their max upgrade. It's not much work for Trion (whereas adding equivalent content is!) and stops the crazy effect of NMR essences we have currently. Keep the upgrade mechanics as they are now, I suppose...

    Something will need to be sorted out for this in the future, though. PvP essences need to be competitive with PvE ones, and there isn't currently a tidy way to do so. If open world or PvP rifts ever make a comeback, I can see possibilities, though...


    Aside: Why I don't think pure prestige gearing has any place now:
    Spoiler!


    Oh, and if the whole business of grouping WFs and linking them in with the dungeon instance locks is going to be difficult (it probably is), then forget that and just have different boxes for different warfronts, and add sufficient overlap in items so that it's only marginally better than queuing random if you are after a specific piece. Anything is better than what we are up against now.

    Any kind of constructive criticism and/or opinions are welcomed: potential inequalities that I'm missing for example.

    I know I've ignored rep for the runes, but that problem was in SL too (though not for earrings). At least you could pick up some rep for each via crafting, though. In the grand scheme of things, it's a minor issue compared to this: though adding those credit-only things that give rep for player kills for the NT factions might help a bit for people willing to pay for them.

  2. #2
    Ascendant asianguywithacamera's Avatar
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    Default

    I agree that pvp essences, once fully upgraded, need better stats. They just aren't worth upgrading when compared to the pve essences that can easily be purchased with platinum.

    Also agree that the amount of marks to upgrade to Dreambreaker gear is just ridiculous. Some of my stuff will the 3 weeks! It'll be March by the time I fully upgrade my cape, range weapon, and healing trinket.

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