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Thread: Master/Ultimate dungeons!

  1. #1
    Rift Chaser Zokot's Avatar
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    Default Master/Ultimate dungeons!

    I enjoy doing experts with friends and such, but they can get a bit stale after awhile. Why not use the same dungeons, and give them harder more rewarding modes? I would love a challenging dungeon once in awhile.

    Master dungeon:
    • Requires 400 hit/toughness
    • Raid mobs, at tier 1 raid difficulty
    • Increased daily reward
    • Drops gear equivalent to tier 1 10 mans, or a bit under
    • Added mechanics

    Ultimate dungeon:
    • Requires 500 hit/toughness
    • Raid mobs, at tier 2 raid difficulty
    • Increased daily reward
    • Drops gear equivalent to tier 2 10 mans, or a bit under
    • Added mechanics
    Last edited by Zokot; 01-08-2014 at 05:48 AM.

  2. #2
    Ascendant July13th's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zokot View Post
    I enjoy doing experts with friends and such, but they can get a bit stale after awhile. Why not use the same dungeons, and give them harder more rewarding modes? I would love a challenging dungeon once in awhile.

    Master dungeon:
    • Requires 400 hit/toughness
    • Raid mobs, at tier 1 raid difficulty
    • Increased daily reward
    • Drops gear equivalent to tier 1 10 mans, or a bit under
    • Added mechanics

    Ultimate dungeon:
    • Requires 500 hit/toughness
    • Raid mobs, at tier 2 raid difficulty
    • Increased daily reward
    • Drops gear equivalent to tier 2 10 mans, or a bit under
    • Added mechanics
    Rift had tried master level. Not enough people did them. I would support the return of master but I dont see it happening.

  3. #3
    Ascendant Xenoheart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by July13th View Post
    Rift had tried master level. Not enough people did them. I would support the return of master but I dont see it happening.
    Same as this. My guild LOVED the master modes. It brought friends of five players really close together. I still remember caduceous rise progression. There was AUTHENTIC five man progression it was so fun to us!!!

    I really would like master modes to make a come back. I think the problem wasnt the actual master modes themselves, but the reward system, lock out system, and difficulty compared to reward.

    I think to bring master modes back they would need:

    1) Drops with HIT rewards comparable to R1 raids, but with stats a slight bit less than what drops from 10 man R1 raids, and not upgradable to relics be it weapons or armor. Base gear allows use of expert crystals, but could be upgraded to use R1 crystals. Make the stats probably equal to that of the third upgrade of expert armor...because no one wastes their dungeon marks like that anyway. That way its a step between the first epic upgrade of expert armor and the lowest available R1 armor.

    2) Give it a dungeon que window, with 400 hit requirement, and obviously a larger int/dex/str/wis requirement (think of atleast glorified torvin and lycini stats plus atleast full blue expert gear). Instead of a daily repeat, allow users to get GAIN a stackable repeat for every two expert dungeon repeats they complete. Maximum four stacks total. This will limit the number of master modes people can do a week to four as in pre-SL, but gives them more flexibility with gathering a group together and gives more freedom to those with RL and Raid schedules. Some peeps raid thur,fri, sat, and that lockout region for master modes was a disaster for them. This system will alleviate that.

    3) Dont add new bosses, really turn those old ones into R1 bosses. Not like old MDD spider boss...I cant remember any new mechanics on that guy. Just turn current bosses into increased HP and dps output, make sure each has a soft enrage (like the bookshelf boss in EotSQ), and either enhance or add some serious R1 grade mechanics. Like Jultharin, ramp up the raid healing challenge to what it was pre nerf, make the flying sword last until destroyed, add some random blue ice explosion AOEs similar to goloch (but not as intense and block off the icy boulder. Soft enrage could easily be decreasing the number of available orbs by one every time he casts his ability after say five or six minutes depending on how long you want the fight.

    4) Make some of the trash fights require AOE specs or necessary CCs like you do in R1 raids.

    5) Make it such that you must form a team of 5 people to queue up for a master mode. Killing the first boss will consume a mastermode queue. The queue just helps manage the repeats each player has, and randomizes which master mode you run (so you dont just do the easiest one over and over), and allows the same entering and re-entering dungeon QOL that experts have. This I think was the second main reason people didnt do experts...along with a weird reward system which will be addressed below

    6) Since all experts are now normalized to have the same number of bosses, rewards can be dropped per boss to better facilitate a progression based 5 man dungeon. The biggest reason master modes failed is that you were only rewarded decently for completing the whole thing. Thus groups only formed based on the ability to complete the whole dungeon. If you applied that to R1 raids...no group would ever venture in for progression. What happened in vanilla rift needs to be avoided. People that needed drops from master modes were not in mastermodes, simply because they were not geared enough to complete the whole thing, rendering them unable to obtain the associated mark awards, and likely their party members. It was also worthless to groups that didn't need the drops at all, but for some reason got stumped on the last boss...the entire run was a complete waste of time...hours down the drain for literally no useful award happened a LOT to a lot of people. That is the NUMBER ONE REASON master modes were not popular. With this system, I could see master modes taking off again by allowing progression based rewards rather than completion based rewards.

    TLDR: master modes need
    1) comparable hit drops
    2) ability to use dungeon que window and QoL entry, up entry requirements, and repeats gained up to 4 max, with one gained per 2 expert repeats completed.
    3) no new bosses, ramp up old bosses to truely represent a progression based 5 man with soft enrages and DPS checks similar to entry level R1 content.
    4) Encourage use of AOE and CC during trash...but dont go crazy.
    5) Make the queue require 5 people to use the queue. Defeating first boss consumes the queue. There are no queue rewards, rewards are progression based.
    6) Rewards are boss based like raids, instead of completion based like dungeons, to facilitate a R1 progression based 5 man instance and allow people who actually need the gear to join along. #1 thing needing changed right here.

    Thats my rant. I miss mastermodes. I think devs have it wrong that master mode content wasn't enjoyable or in demand...its just the implementation of rewards, lockouts, and QoL was counter productive to the goal of 5 man master modes...to provide a gearing opportunity of teams of 5 ready to begin progression on R1 content.
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  4. #4
    Ascendant
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    lol, I can already see ppl forming the party on lvl60 chats.

    LFM to "X", Requirements: No blues, No greens, No PvP gear! must have 20k+ dps , 30k+ hp, link achiev for "X", "X" item / mats reserved.



    I dont really see a point of creating new dungeons, at least not until Trion fixes queue times for dps and supports. I think the best solution would be to add Totdq and IDH to LFG system like with current dungeons.
    PvP in RIFT is good only @forum.

  5. #5
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Jonus's Avatar
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    They had Master Mode Darkening Deeps and Master Mode Caduceus Rise when Level 50 was the max level.

    Although they were enjoyable to some, they were also annoying to others.

    Raiding guilds felt compelled to do them twice a week because they dropped Greater Marks of Ascension. I think they eventually also dropped Infernal Marks of Ascension when ID came out.

    One of the other issues was that the loot was horrible and - at least MCR - was incredibly long because it combined all the bosses of Lower and Upper Caduceus Rise + added multiple mini-Invasion bosses that spawned and would path through boss encounters.

    -----

    That said, they could potentially introduce some that are shorter, only once per week and would be challenging. I must admit I love the hard-modes in Chronicles, especially PB:Aftermath ones. Died a ton of times on some of the bosses and got real entertainment value out of it.

    If they give decent bridging equips between Expert and Tier 1 - could help gear more people up for Tier 1s - then they can do iDH and gear up for Tier 2s - eventually.

  6. #6
    Champion of Telara
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    The problem with Master difficulty would be where it would fit in both terms of challenge, of reward and of challenge/reward ratio.

    -> If the rewards from them were too valuable, then a lot would feel forced to run them, and this would cause the problem that LFMs for Expert have, except even more pronounced.

    -> If the rewards were not valuable, then most people would run them one, maybe twice for a friend, and that's it, never enter again.

  7. #7
    Plane Touched Draiscor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenoheart View Post
    3) no new bosses, ramp up old bosses to truely represent a progression based 5 man with soft enrages and DPS checks similar to entry level R1 content.
    I agree with everything you said, except this bit. I liked going into the Master Mode dungeons, finding the new boss(es) and figuring out how to bring them down. It made the dungeon more interesting, fresh and new. I'd also like to see new boss additions for expert dungeons like they did for classic.

    Though I do agree that the current bosses in the dungeons should also receive new mechanics as well, this keeps the fights with the familiar bosses interesting.

    I don't like the whole flat damage/health buff. Where's the fun in moving up a rank in difficulty and finding nothing new to learn?
    Guild Leader of Dawn of the Phoenix

  8. #8
    Ascendant Xenoheart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draiscor View Post
    I don't like the whole flat damage/health buff. Where's the fun in moving up a rank in difficulty and finding nothing new to learn?
    Exactly! thats exactly what spider boss MMDD felt like. I couldn't think of a single new thing on that boss fight. They could have even changed the mechanics completely, making the expert version just a mere preview of the 5 man potential of these fights. ALSO they are R1s. They should require extreme versatility from those 5 people, so just playing pyro all the way through may not cut it, requiring switches to assist in healing, or chloro hybrids, warlock for dot spreads, or maybe even SC or dom to manage huge waves of adds coming in all the while that something still needs focused down.

    The only reason I mentioned no new bosses, was that current 10 man raids only have four, and being progression based, it was enough for those 10 people and didnt severely encroach on other activities like 20 man raiding.

    Current experts I think have have four main bosses each...some would argue that the core before Kaliban is fourth but most guides include it as a mini event before Kaliban. I think its important to keep and even enhance mini events because it gives more value to rapid assualt achieves. (#1 killer of rapid assault in TDQ lol, hot potato boss ftw!).

    Anyway with four per master mode...with maybe a few exceptions I think is more appropriate. THough I'd also be fine if there is an expert out there with more than four...now that I think about it RoTD has five...In that case I'd be totally cool with them adding bosses so that ALL master modes are equal in amount dropped possible per que in. Thus is RoTD has the most bosses at 5, then add 1 more to any Masters that would be planned that only have 4. Reguardless, they NEED to be equal in number or the flexibility I proposed would not be valid.

    Anyway, it may be a bit late in SL for master modes. It would have been most appropriate to add them with release, so groups of 5 that were ready for a challenge even if ten of their guild wasnt yet, could already do entertain themselves while the rest of the guild catches up.

    Anywho. Just missing mastermodes here. MMCR had many fond memories with really close friends in there. We had the most fun in MM progression and PF progression above any 20 man progression outside of HK.
    Xenohart
    http://www.fractureguild.enjin.com/ | twitch.tv/xenohartgaming
    4/4 TDQ | 4/4 FT | 5/5 EE | 4/4 GA | 3/3 IG | 4/5 PB | 2/4 BOB 4/4 minis
    I just make it look easy sometimes. ~Daglar

  9. #9
    Ascendant SoulshadowDK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlwaysHealNeverDie View Post
    I dont really see a point of creating new dungeons, at least not until Trion fixes queue times for dps and supports. I think the best solution would be to add Totdq and IDH to LFG system like with current dungeons.
    There is no way for trion to fix queue times for dps/support. Only the players of rift are able to do that. There is a reason there are a shortage of good tanks. Every time a new tank tries to pug their first dungeon as a tank, things get a little rough, as they generally do for a new tank, and the group treats the tank like garbage, and the tank swears off tanking pugs, and only runs with guildies for ever and ever. The end.

    I dont think IDH/TDQ should be added to the LFG... its not going to make anything easier, and there will be 100s of dps/support sitting in queue waiting for TDQ to pop and there would be no tanks or healers, it would be worse than the dungeon queues, lol.

    Also, none of this addresses the OP's topic, its just rehashing other topics that have plenty of other threads that have all been beat like a dead horse

    Back on topic...adding in some harder 5man content would be great. Loved the master modes. When they were relevant, there was never a week where a couple groups didn't go through both of them in my guild, we had some good times.
    Soulraiser - 60 Cleric // Soulslayer - 60 Warrior // Soulshadow 60 Mage
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  10. #10
    Plane Touched Draiscor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlwaysHealNeverDie View Post
    I think the best solution would be to add Totdq and IDH to LFG system like with current dungeons.
    so you want LFR? ... No thanks
    Guild Leader of Dawn of the Phoenix

  11. #11
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    the idea of 5 mans dropping gear comparable to TDQ/IDH is ludicrous in my opinion. Despite the joke that experts are now, at some point they were designed to get your geared to start doing raids, while yes i feel that some of the content lacks in depth, i don't think making 5 mans harder is worth the developers time and would be more aggravating than it's worth at this point.

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