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Thread: Suggestion: Specalized Boxes

  1. #1
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    Default Suggestion: Specalized Boxes

    Instead of the crap shoot that the current lock boxes are, how about specalized boxes? Such, asmount boxes and put in only mounts, or wardrobe boxes that only has a wardrobe item or a more expensive box that contains a wardrobe set. I know Trion won't completly remove RNG because lets face it, they make money off them and I don't begrudge a company for making money but can we narrow the field?

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    General of Telara Hawkmoon0028's Avatar
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    Will never happen. Know why?

    Because they would make less overall. This way, you have to buy dozens (or hundreds) of boxes to get that singular item you want.

    The larger the loot table, the more boxes you have to buy, and the more money Trion makes.

    PT Barnum said it best: There's one born every minute.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkmoon0028 View Post
    Will never happen. Know why?

    Because they would make less overall. This way, you have to buy dozens (or hundreds) of boxes to get that singular item you want.

    The larger the loot table, the more boxes you have to buy, and the more money Trion makes.

    PT Barnum said it best: There's one born every minute.
    I agree that "specialized" boxes would probably lead to a player's getting what he wants sooner and that would mean fewer sales. Therefore, not going to happen.

    In the same way, when I see people asking why Trion doesn't just put items up for sale in the store rather than stuffing them in lock boxes, I figure it's for the same reason. Too many people would just buy what they want and then stop. Fewer sales overall; therefore, not going to happen.

    However, a recurring element that I see in these threads is not simply frustration with what they were hoping to win but didn't, but also a great deal of irritation with what they did actually win. Namely, items that are totally useless for the buyer.

    Here's something Trion could do that I think could considerably reduce the irritation factor and not reduce sales. In fact, it would lead to more sales, if anything.

    I'll call it a "fine tuner". Sell them in the store for a very modest amount: no more than 10 credits each or maybe 3 for 25. When I get a box, I can apply these fine tuners to it and exclude categories that I have zero interest in. Then, whatever else I might get from a box, I can at least guarantee that I WON'T get, for example, PVP currency. Or costume armor. Or whatever category I personally consider totally useless.

    I expect there will still be lots of other "less-than-premium" items in those databases that Trion will not be increasing in any significant way the chances for players to get the items they want (and thus stop buying). In fact, I imagine Trion could let us apply 2, or even 3, of these fine tuners to every chest and it wouldn't reduce sales.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkmoon0028 View Post
    Will never happen. Know why?

    Because they would make less overall. This way, you have to buy dozens (or hundreds) of boxes to get that singular item you want.

    The larger the loot table, the more boxes you have to buy, and the more money Trion makes.

    PT Barnum said it best: There's one born every minute.
    Seriously- people are already encouraging the crap boxes with their posts of "I spent $100-$200 EXPECTING to get SOMETHING" - which one, tells us you are WILLING to spend a ton of cash on RNG ; and secondly, actually encourages them to continue crap boxes because these posts seem endless.

    People, probability does not work that way. Your chance of getting something does not increase simply because you bought more boxes.

    And Trion cannot give you the odds because they do not know. It's an internal Random Number Generated (RNG) algorithm. It isn't designed to screw you. It's designed to do exactly what it does: generate a random "number" that indicates whether or not you get the item for that particular box.

    And OP: if they wanted to do this, they could just add the items to the store, with "special editions" for the boxes. I have been bleating that they should do this, and both box-buyers and people who hate boxes on the forum agree it's a good idea. I cannot speak for the rest of the feedback data they get; the forum is but a very small part of those data. Contrary to what we all like to think, heh.
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    Ascendant Techie Will's Avatar
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    There was a pretty simple "solution" to the boxes posted on these very forums and I wish it had taken off.

    The fix to please both those who want the randomness of boxes and those that want tangible results is simple: Include a special currency in the box. Once you have ___ amount of this currency, you can buy the item from the box you want.

    Make it a random drop, make it drop 50% of the time or less, but it would still give a way for people to buy that special mount they want after spending tons on the boxes.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Techie Will View Post
    There was a pretty simple "solution" to the boxes posted on these very forums and I wish it had taken off.

    The fix to please both those who want the randomness of boxes and those that want tangible results is simple: Include a special currency in the box. Once you have ___ amount of this currency, you can buy the item from the box you want.

    Make it a random drop, make it drop 50% of the time or less, but it would still give a way for people to buy that special mount they want after spending tons on the boxes.
    I actually did have a little spare cash and, of my own volition, and with no expectation, used it on the mech boxes with the hope, not expectation, that I'd get the mount.

    Well, I ended up with some great essences that I needed as upgrades, lots of mech wands, some pets (not Motherboard ), but no mount. Was I disappointed? Gods yes. I still really REALLY want that g*ddamn mech mount. But I didn't curse Trion. I put aside a little $ to do specifically just this. And it wasn't a lot- I know my luck is crap, haha. But I might go for your suggestion of currency. Depending on how many boxes it would cost me and how much one would actually get.
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    Ascendant Techie Will's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilex011 View Post
    I actually did have a little spare cash and, of my own volition, and with no expectation, used it on the mech boxes with the hope, not expectation, that I'd get the mount.

    Well, I ended up with some great essences that I needed as upgrades, lots of mech wands, some pets (not Motherboard ), but no mount. Was I disappointed? Gods yes. I still really REALLY want that g*ddamn mech mount. But I didn't curse Trion. I put aside a little $ to do specifically just this. And it wasn't a lot- I know my luck is crap, haha. But I might go for your suggestion of currency. Depending on how many boxes it would cost me and how much one would actually get.
    It would need to be a balance against the randomness of boxes and getting something you want super cheap.

    I'm not suggesting you should get "exactly what you want" out of 5 boxes. 25 boxes? Maybe. 50? Probably. 100? Yes, there should be no question.

    For example: Have each box drop one single token. Have the mount cost 25 tokens. If you've went through 25 boxes and were not lucky enough to get the mount? Turn in the tokens and collect your prize.

    Or they could make each box only have a "chance" at the token, but make it drop five tokens at a time. Something like that.

    It keeps the whole randomness factor to the boxes, gives a consolation prize to those that want to avoid the random (but only if they're willing to pay a little extra for more boxes obviously).

    Personally I would like to see different versions of the mounts posted in the store. Leave a special color one in the boxes only (amethyst ki rin, for example) and then sell another colored one on the shop.


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    I like how people hate the idea, and talk about how to make it into something they hate less instead of admitting the real core feelings inside lots of players are to have it completely removed. I've given up on players principles, going to have to look towards companies to hold good ones in the future.

    Don't even bother with the need profits argument, could run that one around the block for the 3rd time just to come to the conclusion that this is one way among many to skin a cat. With some consideration that you don't need 6 feet of fur for every 2 feet of your body. I hope people get that last analogy.
    Last edited by Violacea; 12-28-2013 at 05:10 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    I like how people hate the idea, and talk about how to make it into something they hate less instead of admitting the real core feelings inside lots of players are to have it completely removed. I've given up on players principles, going to have to look towards companies to hold good ones in the future.

    Don't even bother with the need profits argument, could run that one around the block for the 3rd time just to come to the conclusion that this is one way among many to skin a cat. With some consideration that you don't need 6 feet of fur for every 2 feet of your body. I hope people get that last analogy.
    I don't hate the idea of random boxes at all. I purchased several and got the black squirrel mount. I have no issue with them being completely random.

    I am making a suggestion that could make the boxes look even more appealing to the crowd of people that dislike them.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Techie Will View Post
    It would need to be a balance against the randomness of boxes and getting something you want super cheap.

    I'm not suggesting you should get "exactly what you want" out of 5 boxes. 25 boxes? Maybe. 50? Probably. 100? Yes, there should be no question.

    For example: Have each box drop one single token. Have the mount cost 25 tokens. If you've went through 25 boxes and were not lucky enough to get the mount? Turn in the tokens and collect your prize.

    Or they could make each box only have a "chance" at the token, but make it drop five tokens at a time. Something like that.

    It keeps the whole randomness factor to the boxes, gives a consolation prize to those that want to avoid the random (but only if they're willing to pay a little extra for more boxes obviously).

    Personally I would like to see different versions of the mounts posted in the store. Leave a special color one in the boxes only (amethyst ki rin, for example) and then sell another colored one on the shop.
    Personally, I think this would be a definite improvement on the way things are now. Sadly, I believe I see a flaw in the idea.

    I figure this would require that Trion decide at some point, "OK, we've made enough money off this poor slob. Let's let him get what he wants." I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for that moment.

    I seem to recall a comment made a while back (by Daglar, I think) that subscription numbers, as judged by patron subs, were higher than they had ever been. The impression given was that the revenue stream was doing very nicely, thank you. In spite of that, pretty much everything I've seen or experienced suggests BUY MORE! BUY MORE! BUY MORE! remains the order of the day

  11. #11
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    The idea of a currency gained from these lockboxes would probably increase their sales even more as people 'close' to getting enough lockbox currency to purchase an item would buy more lockboxes when normally they would not have (due to giving up/etc).

    Another thing to note is that they recently added the Death and Life weapon skins to the Rift Store, which were part of Regulos' Lock Box and Greenscale's Lock Box respectively.

    Perhaps they'll eventually add all the other weapon wardrobe items, and perhaps even some of the premium mounts to the Rift Store for direct purchase in the future - a few months gap between the lockbox and the direct purchase option.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Violacea View Post
    I like how people hate the idea, and talk about how to make it into something they hate less instead of admitting the real core feelings inside lots of players are to have it completely removed.

    Oh I think I've made my anti-box feelings quite known. In fact, I think that's obvious whenever I post about them. Having said that, they are not going away. At any time. Ever. So I opt to adapt and offer what, for me, would be acceptable. I'd love for boxes to not be there at all, but that is never going to happen.
    Last edited by ilex011; 12-28-2013 at 08:05 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilex011 View Post
    People, probability does not work that way. Your chance of getting something does not increase simply because you bought more boxes.
    You might want to reign in the accusations about not understanding how probability works because whilst you are absolutely correct that no matter how many times you carry out the same virtual dice roll, the results of each individual roll are independent from previous rolls, the cumulative chance of getting a particular roll is not the same as an individual result within the set.

    The poisson distribution says hi.

    For the sake of argument, let's say that the chance of getting what you want from one of these lockboxes is 1 in 100. That would implicitly also mean that you have a 99/100 chance of getting something other than what you wanted.

    No matter how many times you've previously rolled the dice and lost (or indeed won), the next time you roll you still have a 1/100 chance of winning and 99/100 chance of losing.

    However, if you have N separate attempts, the chances are...

    Chance of all wins = (1/100)^N

    Chance of all losses = (99/100)^N

    Chance of some wins and some losses = (1 - ( (1/100)^N + (99/100)^N) )

    The higher N becomes, the more likely it is that you'll be in the "some wins, some losses" category, but no matter how high N becomes, (99/100)^N never becomes zero so you are never guaranteed a win.

    The fact that some people think the 1/100 roll becomes more likely the more times they've had the 99/100 result is called the gambler's fallacy and explains why people throw large sums of credits at this type of thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meteorblade View Post
    You might want to reign in the accusations about not understanding how probability works because whilst you are absolutely correct that no matter how many times you carry out the same virtual dice roll, the results of each individual roll are independent from previous rolls, the cumulative chance of getting a particular roll is not the same as an individual result within the set.

    The poisson distribution says hi.

    For the sake of argument, let's say that the chance of getting what you want from one of these lockboxes is 1 in 100. That would implicitly also mean that you have a 99/100 chance of getting something other than what you wanted.

    No matter how many times you've previously rolled the dice and lost (or indeed won), the next time you roll you still have a 1/100 chance of winning and 99/100 chance of losing.

    However, if you have N separate attempts, the chances are...

    Chance of all wins = (1/100)^N

    Chance of all losses = (99/100)^N

    Chance of some wins and some losses = (1 - ( (1/100)^N + (99/100)^N) )

    The higher N becomes, the more likely it is that you'll be in the "some wins, some losses" category, but no matter how high N becomes, (99/100)^N never becomes zero so you are never guaranteed a win.

    The fact that some people think the 1/100 roll becomes more likely the more times they've had the 99/100 result is called the gambler's fallacy and explains why people throw large sums of credits at this type of thing.
    Right; and I agree with this completely- I was, as you noted, just referring to a particular set of purchases. I'm not sure it's possible to obtain a decent mean of mounts received from boxes by all players, for example, because those data haven't been recorded by us. But yeah, it's reasonable to assume that the more boxes one purchases (100 vs 100,000) that the odds do increase of getting a mech mount because you simply have more boxes to open- but as we both say, that is completely independent on what "sets" of purchases one has made previously. Unless you're me, then you have super crappy luck and would end up with another outlier- all mech wands! Haha!
    Last edited by ilex011; 12-31-2013 at 01:09 PM. Reason: hi fish distribution! helloooo!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilex011 View Post
    And Trion cannot give you the odds because they do not know. It's an internal Random Number Generated (RNG) algorithm. It isn't designed to screw you. It's designed to do exactly what it does: generate a random "number" that indicates whether or not you get the item for that particular box.
    well we do not know that....its their system and they could easily design it in the way to generate semi-random box content... example to give players items but not exactly the one THEY NEED like trinket with good stats for a mage but after upgrading the same trinket getting warrior stats???? (I got one of those on my mage -.- ). Or maybe loot from boxes depends somehow from how long you play and how much you already spent in item shop...etc..........everything is possible.

    So, its all about generating income... f2p system doesn't mean lower income in compare to sub system for trion, in contrary, most games which switched from subscription model to f2p+shop generated much more income than from subscription model, simply because kids getting into trap of spending money for credits/rex'es/items from item shop instead of rely on their skill/abilities(unlikely in possession) and/or time... And this "paying to win"system is not allowed in subscription model...that's why item shop model is so popular nowdays ;)

    // Here a little explanation why I called rift pay to win game....(cause it may rage some fanboys), Any game where you can spend real money to speed up your progress , no matter on what level of content is called pay to win...//

    So, it is expected to see many more Trion's inventions (like those "limited edition red boxes" which cost twice as orange but reward is a joke....)to get more money..and more......and more........

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