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Thread: Planar Attunement Suggestion

  1. #1
    Ascendant V1rul3n7's Avatar
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    Default Planar Attunement Suggestion

    Hi there,
    Recently I've been chatting with a few fellow Rifters about planar attunement and in particular Elemental Resistances and the role they play.

    So anyway, I'll skip to the point.

    My suggestion is basically to entirely re-work the planar attunement spheres at the moment so that instead of providing stats and a few useless glyphs the planar attunement system is the core of character development beyond level 50.

    To elaborate:

    Im a pyromancer, naturally most of my spells are 'attuned' to the plane of fire, my greatest strength is the manipulation of fire magic and the resistance of it, i want to expand this "attunement" and so i decide to spec into the fire tree.

    Instead of getting a few paltry stats, each hex has been completely re-organized to provide either fire element resistance OR fire element enhancement, as I progress through the fire tiers i unlock the flaring glyph at tier 2 (and greater fire resistance and damage enhancement) then finally at tier 3 i unlock the "ultimate ability" for the fire tree.. lets just call this ability Meteor Shower:

    5s cast time, mass aoe, fireballs shower down from the heavens stunning targets, dealing initial damage, and damage over time.

    Keep in mind that these abilities will all be CALLING SPECIFIC, as will each glyph from each plane.

    Now you could say, WOAH that is one badass pyromancer, but unfortunately for him his stormcaller buddy specced full lightning and as such we end up with..

    A badass pyro, with great fire resistance and fire damage
    A badass stormcaller, with great lightning resistance and lightning damage

    So if you put the two head to head, it would effectively be EVEN (provided class balance/gear balance etc) so i just wanted to show that for the purpose of "balance".

    The pyro could have always specced for lightning resistance instead (complimenting his weakness as such) which would make him a potent threat against a fully lightning specced stormcaller.

    The same applies across the callings, with a similar PA system implemented PA would be the way for characters to literally ATTUNE to the planes that they wish to embody in their character, of course higher level players would have an advantage but.. THEY DO ALREADY!

    So my suggestion is to make the grind more fun, and add more customisation and variety to the game and also to make elemental resistances play a crucial role in the metagame.

    Of course focus/hit strips elemental resistance by double the amount at present and the devs haven't tweaked anything currently because if they did it would completely destroy PvE so it would require a lot of work to implement BUT it would be a damn sight more fun than the current system we have.

    So yes, some characters are currently "MAX" which is another problem, but if they just increase the costs per hex then that would instantly bring people back down to earth and everything would still be basically completely the same only with an awesome new PA system.

    Another suggestion to couple with this one is that glyphs are all applicable but "to seperate armor pieces", i.e the earth glyph is applicable to the torso, life glyph to the hands, death glyph to offhand, fire glyph to mainhand, lightning glyph to shoulders, air glyph to feet and each glyph has a specific function (not just.. here are some stats).

    People may argue that this is a PvP friendly suggestion but yes of course, it also applies to PvE too though.. it means that you can finally be that "fire plane hunter" or that "death plane assassin" and if ever there were a mean threat to emerge from the planes YOU would be the best suited for that particular job.

    At the moment the stat weighting calculations for elemental resistance in PvP are well off, and most of the glyphs are useless and/or only one at any given time.

    With the system i propose it would theoretically be possible to max every single tier for every single plane and truly attune to the "force" of rift itself, but of course with diminishing returns this could take an extortionate amount of time to do and with cheaper planar attunement resets this could be the endgame for character development post level 50.

    IMO this is how planar attunement should have always been, of course you can argue that it wouldn't be great for newer players having to grind out all that PA again but if they make it account bound then its completely irrelevant , that would allow people to level their "main" and play an alt or two at the same time.

    I havent got any suggestions for what the ultimate abilities should be for each class but as a general idea.

    Warrior Earth T3 = Seismic Fury, The warrior smashes the ground with his weapons for 10s causing enemies caught in the radius to become snared/stunned/fall over.

    Rogue Air T3 = Haste, The rogue moves with grace for 20s improving in-combat movement speed, attack speed and dodge bonus for himself and nearby allies.

    Mage Death T3 = Maelstrom, The mage channels a raging twister of death energy, this spell hits allies and enemies and moves randomly, each enemy hit has energy/mana/hp drained and a percent is transferred to the caster.

    Cleric Life T3 = Nullify, All raid members are fully cleansed + restored to full health/mana/hp

    etc etc.
    -=[ Virulent - 65 - P100 | Harlakk - 65 - P100 | Ascaroth - 62 - P95 | Brahman - 65 - P92 ]=-
    -=[ VirulentX - 70 - P100 | Harlakk - 70 - P92 | Ascaroth - 60 - P10 | BrahmanX - 1 - P0 ]=-
    | VIRALIST: 65 |

  2. #2
    Ascendant V1rul3n7's Avatar
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    Additional Note:

    >> T3 Ultimate Abilities are on a 2 hour cooldown <<

    Tier 1 provides the glyphs, tier 2 provides "normal use" abilities specific to that plane/calling.

    Tier 1 provides +10% mitigation/enhanced damage, tier 2 provides +20%, tier 3 provides +30% (with diminishing returns for moving up tiers)
    Last edited by V1rul3n7; 08-27-2012 at 08:06 PM. Reason: additional
    -=[ Virulent - 65 - P100 | Harlakk - 65 - P100 | Ascaroth - 62 - P95 | Brahman - 65 - P92 ]=-
    -=[ VirulentX - 70 - P100 | Harlakk - 70 - P92 | Ascaroth - 60 - P10 | BrahmanX - 1 - P0 ]=-
    | VIRALIST: 65 |

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    Ascendant Primalthirst's Avatar
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    So your solution to the issues with PA is to exacerbate them?
    Nope.

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    Champion millie's Avatar
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    @OP
    many calling/souls have no obvious connections to air/fire/earth/water/life/damage. So while I can see your point for Pyros and other elemental damage types it does not generally apply. Also pyros are not secret agents of the Plane of Fire. Therefore alignment with the 'plane of fire' means something a little different to what you think it means. It seems to me it means being able to better defeat creatures from the plane of fire rather than providing an elemental support to your damage.

    Also the glyphs do have some use, some can be bettered by using consumables instead, some effect some souls better than others. While they may not be the best things for your calling/soul I think you should be able to see that they are not 'useless'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Primalthirst View Post
    So your solution to the issues with PA is to exacerbate them?
    I can think of several things you might think are "issues with PA" but without knowing what you think is wrong with PA your comment is meaningless.
    Last edited by millie; 08-27-2012 at 08:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primalthirst View Post
    So your solution to the issues with PA is to exacerbate them?
    Why not, at least make it a fun ride rather than a few pointless stats (that somehow also add up and have a point depending on perspective)

    Like i say it would require a lot of work to implement but it would make the endgame a lot more interesting and diverse.

    People are going to moan about PA regardless (if they don't have enough of it) so i myself would rather than PA actually be a focus and actually have usefulness in a wider context rather than the dull mundane almost rushed system we have currently.

    There aren't that many problems with the system anyway apart for "oh noes i have no PA, give me moar" which is pretty much the same arguement for gear normalization (when the real answer is better matchmaking and class balance) and the utter inherent dullness of "congrats, you gained 1!! SP!", plus as i have said elemental resistance is pointless really in PvP when it shouldn't be because some classes have to spend points in those useless skills, i mean take Archon for instance.. 11 points for mana regen and another 3 for elemental resistances which are basically totally useless for PvP.

    Perhaps you see it as a bad idea, but it would be a lot more fun than what we have currently (which suffers from exactly the same issues.)
    -=[ Virulent - 65 - P100 | Harlakk - 65 - P100 | Ascaroth - 62 - P95 | Brahman - 65 - P92 ]=-
    -=[ VirulentX - 70 - P100 | Harlakk - 70 - P92 | Ascaroth - 60 - P10 | BrahmanX - 1 - P0 ]=-
    | VIRALIST: 65 |

  6. #6
    Ascendant V1rul3n7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millie View Post
    @OP
    many calling/souls have no obvious connections to air/fire/earth/water/life/damage. So while I can see your point for Pyros and other elemental damage types it does not generally apply. Also pyros are not secret agents of the Plane of Fire. Therefore alignment with the 'plane of fire' means something a little different to what you think it means. It seems to me it means being able to better defeat creatures from the plane of fire rather than providing an elemental support to your damage.



    I can think of several things you might think are "issues with PA" but without knowing what you think is wrong with PA your comment is meaningless.
    Its not that i think there is anything "wrong" with PA (apart from its dullness), I just think it should be more of a focus for character customization, i realise that pyro's dont have any particular attunement and nor do a lot of classes but that is the point, its not what classes would have a particular attunement inherently its how the character CHOOSES to attune and become "an agent for the plane of fire" or whatever.. its that bit of character customization and development post 50 that we don't currently have.
    -=[ Virulent - 65 - P100 | Harlakk - 65 - P100 | Ascaroth - 62 - P95 | Brahman - 65 - P92 ]=-
    -=[ VirulentX - 70 - P100 | Harlakk - 70 - P92 | Ascaroth - 60 - P10 | BrahmanX - 1 - P0 ]=-
    | VIRALIST: 65 |

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    Ascendant V1rul3n7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millie View Post
    @OP

    Also the glyphs do have some use, some can be bettered by using consumables instead, some effect some souls better than others. While they may not be the best things for your calling/soul I think you should be able to see that they are not 'useless'.
    At present you can only really use one glyph at any given time, so if you have 4 glyphs unlocked that makes 2 of them useless effectively.. course they arent USELESS you're just being a little pedantic and exaggerating my language, sure they have a use but what im suggesting is to broaden their use and put them all on a more equal footing.

    I cant see how you would argue with that really.. but people find a way to argue with any good suggestion :P
    -=[ Virulent - 65 - P100 | Harlakk - 65 - P100 | Ascaroth - 62 - P95 | Brahman - 65 - P92 ]=-
    -=[ VirulentX - 70 - P100 | Harlakk - 70 - P92 | Ascaroth - 60 - P10 | BrahmanX - 1 - P0 ]=-
    | VIRALIST: 65 |

  8. #8
    Ascendant Primalthirst's Avatar
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    Well the most commonly raised issue with PA is the power difference between new and existing players.

    The OPs suggestions would make the problem infinitely worse. Additional 30% damage or mitigation is beyond ridiculous. 2hr cd abilities are also outrageous, they would either be useless or crazily OP.

    Increasing the barrier to entry is not a good thing at all.
    Nope.

  9. #9
    Ascendant Aguni's Avatar
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    There is an issue with PA?
    Far as I know someone with PA vs someone without PA is a notieable DPS gap, but not enough to suggest being incapable of completing endgame content even before the nerfs.

  10. #10
    Champion millie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by V1rul3n7 View Post
    At present you can only really use one glyph at any given time, so if you have 4 glyphs unlocked that makes 2 of them useless effectively.. course they arent USELESS you're just being a little pedantic and exaggerating my language, sure they have a use but what im suggesting is to broaden their use and put them all on a more equal footing.

    I cant see how you would argue with that really.. but people find a way to argue with any good suggestion :P
    I am not sure I like your suggestions, but they are suggestions and positive. I think some of our difference stems from a difference about the emphasis PvP should receive. You seem to like it (I may be wrong) I would be happy if it disappeared entirely. In any case for me how does it play for PvE is my major assessment point.

    The stats and benefits that can currently be obtained from PA can make a measurable difference in PvE and a lot of the 2% this 3% that are useful too. So while I know its a lot of grinding I have no major issue with PA as it is. That is not to say that it could not be improved.

    Those having issues with PA need to spell out their problems and suggest fixes (as you have done) not just say "its broke and this would make it worse" as the other poster did.
    Last edited by millie; 08-27-2012 at 08:49 PM.

  11. #11
    Ascendant Primalthirst's Avatar
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    I don't really have a problem with the current system.

    What I have a problem with is ill considered adjustments.
    Typically people start threads with cool ideas to make it more exciting or meaningful, just usually the ideas aren't thought out enough and would cause more problems than they solve.
    Nope.

  12. #12
    Plane Walker Malvolio's Avatar
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    You have many good points but just to put some reasoning against it. If you make Alternate Advancement too potent it becomes a must have.

    If you make the gap between a fresh 50 and a veteran character too far people wont be able to catch up or at least be competitive. It promotes ellitism you will see EQ1 level requirements for guild i.e. Must be max level with 200AA before joining this guild etc...

    Same goes for veteran characters leveling alts it becomes a huge chore trying to catch an alt up and keep them competitive.

    You might say well many people arent elitist and dont care if your competitive but if AA is too potent they will start to tune the encounters to the new standard to give veterans a challenge.

  13. #13
    Shield of Telara Jawsnap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by V1rul3n7 View Post
    Hi there,
    Recently I've been chatting with a few fellow Rifters about planar attunement and in particular Elemental Resistances and the role they play.

    So anyway, I'll skip to the point.

    My suggestion is basically to entirely re-work the planar attunement spheres at the moment so that instead of providing stats and a few useless glyphs the planar attunement system is the core of character development beyond level 50.

    To elaborate:

    Im a pyromancer, naturally most of my spells are 'attuned' to the plane of fire, my greatest strength is the manipulation of fire magic and the resistance of it, i want to expand this "attunement" and so i decide to spec into the fire tree.

    Instead of getting a few paltry stats, each hex has been completely re-organized to provide either fire element resistance OR fire element enhancement, as I progress through the fire tiers i unlock the flaring glyph at tier 2 (and greater fire resistance and damage enhancement) then finally at tier 3 i unlock the "ultimate ability" for the fire tree.. lets just call this ability Meteor Shower:

    5s cast time, mass aoe, fireballs shower down from the heavens stunning targets, dealing initial damage, and damage over time.

    Keep in mind that these abilities will all be CALLING SPECIFIC, as will each glyph from each plane.

    Now you could say, WOAH that is one badass pyromancer, but unfortunately for him his stormcaller buddy specced full lightning and as such we end up with..

    A badass pyro, with great fire resistance and fire damage
    A badass stormcaller, with great lightning resistance and lightning damage

    So if you put the two head to head, it would effectively be EVEN (provided class balance/gear balance etc) so i just wanted to show that for the purpose of "balance".

    The pyro could have always specced for lightning resistance instead (complimenting his weakness as such) which would make him a potent threat against a fully lightning specced stormcaller.

    The same applies across the callings, with a similar PA system implemented PA would be the way for characters to literally ATTUNE to the planes that they wish to embody in their character, of course higher level players would have an advantage but.. THEY DO ALREADY!

    So my suggestion is to make the grind more fun, and add more customisation and variety to the game and also to make elemental resistances play a crucial role in the metagame.

    Of course focus/hit strips elemental resistance by double the amount at present and the devs haven't tweaked anything currently because if they did it would completely destroy PvE so it would require a lot of work to implement BUT it would be a damn sight more fun than the current system we have.

    So yes, some characters are currently "MAX" which is another problem, but if they just increase the costs per hex then that would instantly bring people back down to earth and everything would still be basically completely the same only with an awesome new PA system.

    Another suggestion to couple with this one is that glyphs are all applicable but "to seperate armor pieces", i.e the earth glyph is applicable to the torso, life glyph to the hands, death glyph to offhand, fire glyph to mainhand, lightning glyph to shoulders, air glyph to feet and each glyph has a specific function (not just.. here are some stats).

    People may argue that this is a PvP friendly suggestion but yes of course, it also applies to PvE too though.. it means that you can finally be that "fire plane hunter" or that "death plane assassin" and if ever there were a mean threat to emerge from the planes YOU would be the best suited for that particular job.

    At the moment the stat weighting calculations for elemental resistance in PvP are well off, and most of the glyphs are useless and/or only one at any given time.

    With the system i propose it would theoretically be possible to max every single tier for every single plane and truly attune to the "force" of rift itself, but of course with diminishing returns this could take an extortionate amount of time to do and with cheaper planar attunement resets this could be the endgame for character development post level 50.

    IMO this is how planar attunement should have always been, of course you can argue that it wouldn't be great for newer players having to grind out all that PA again but if they make it account bound then its completely irrelevant , that would allow people to level their "main" and play an alt or two at the same time.

    I havent got any suggestions for what the ultimate abilities should be for each class but as a general idea.

    Warrior Earth T3 = Seismic Fury, The warrior smashes the ground with his weapons for 10s causing enemies caught in the radius to become snared/stunned/fall over.

    Rogue Air T3 = Haste, The rogue moves with grace for 20s improving in-combat movement speed, attack speed and dodge bonus for himself and nearby allies.

    Mage Death T3 = Maelstrom, The mage channels a raging twister of death energy, this spell hits allies and enemies and moves randomly, each enemy hit has energy/mana/hp drained and a percent is transferred to the caster.

    Cleric Life T3 = Nullify, All raid members are fully cleansed + restored to full health/mana/hp

    etc etc.
    The issue with this is that 90% of the souls are frickin' stupidly broken. And the 10% that aren't - nobody uses because they're not as effective at smashing an entire raid to bits. (PvP for example).

    So giving fundamental boosters to those soul combinations is a bad idea.

    I'd like it - but, I'm afraid until Trion find the dictionary on balance at least understand half of it... I do not sign this.

    Edit: PS, some stuff in the PA trees are a little silly... I'd be happy for some of the stuff to be completely revamped.
    Last edited by Jawsnap; 08-28-2012 at 07:36 AM.

  14. #14
    Ascendant V1rul3n7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post
    You have many good points but just to put some reasoning against it. If you make Alternate Advancement too potent it becomes a must have.

    If you make the gap between a fresh 50 and a veteran character too far people wont be able to catch up or at least be competitive. It promotes ellitism you will see EQ1 level requirements for guild i.e. Must be max level with 200AA before joining this guild etc...

    Same goes for veteran characters leveling alts it becomes a huge chore trying to catch an alt up and keep them competitive.

    You might say well many people arent elitist and dont care if your competitive but if AA is too potent they will start to tune the encounters to the new standard to give veterans a challenge.
    The elitism problem already exists..

    I suggested to make PA account bound to solve the "alts" problem..

    Its already pretty damned potent.. im just suggesting something to make it more fun, and with this system if somebody was T3 fire then they would still be weak against uh, every other element?..

    So a T1 earth player would still be pretty badass against them because they would totally lack resistance against it.
    -=[ Virulent - 65 - P100 | Harlakk - 65 - P100 | Ascaroth - 62 - P95 | Brahman - 65 - P92 ]=-
    -=[ VirulentX - 70 - P100 | Harlakk - 70 - P92 | Ascaroth - 60 - P10 | BrahmanX - 1 - P0 ]=-
    | VIRALIST: 65 |

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