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Thread: (DEVS PLS READ) New raid lockout system

  1. #31
    RIFT Guide Writer Wylt's Avatar
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    So when the loot timer expires everyone that was in on the kill is saved to that kill?

    So it's the same as being saved to the boss and not the instance....

    So it really has nothing to do with loot, because you get saved whether or not you get loot...

    Gotcha. Boss saves, instead of instance saves, is something I'd be 100% behind. Loot-recipient saving is 100% exploitable.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wylt View Post
    So when the loot timer expires everyone that was in on the kill is saved to that kill?

    So it's the same as being saved to the boss and not the instance....

    So it really has nothing to do with loot, because you get saved whether or not you get loot...

    Gotcha. Boss saves, instead of instance saves, is something I'd be 100% behind. Loot-recipient saving is 100% exploitable.


    Yes you're saved to a boss, but to the boss's loot table, not the actual boss. So you can kill the boss many, many times in a week but can only get the option to roll on or receive loot ONCE per week on that character. It is just an internal note in the loot system saying that the kill isnt your 1st kill of the week.


    I ll do a quick example so there is no more confusion:

    I raid RotP on Wednesday and kill all but the final boss. I can go in with a fresh run on Friday and kill all the bosses I already downed and the final I missed. Now with the loot lock, I would only have the option to roll on the loot from the final boss. So on the mini-bosses and the 1st 3 in that Friday RotP i would get my PA item, then on the final boss, cause I havent killed it that week, I get to roll and receive loot like normal.

    Another example. I get in a fail GSB weekly and get saved to the 1st boss. With loot lock, I can get a fresh run going 2 days later to finish my weekly, but dont get to receive or roll on loot from the 1st boss.
    Last edited by Redsock; 08-24-2012 at 05:17 AM.

  3. #33
    Telaran
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    Once again you didnt explained it briefly.
    Lets me try.
    Once last item from X boss is distributed to raid you are saved to that boss loot for that week.
    Anyhow you can kill same boss on daily bases and get 50k pa token but wont be available to roll on loot until week resets.
    Because what you were saying all time is:
    "If you dont roll you dont get locked for boss." and
    "You can roll on boss loot once in week".
    Thats not correct because if i need item from Maelforge,ill run Maelforge 20 times and then roll on 1 item which I need when it drops.
    Weekly save on boss kill must exist.However instance save in non finished instance can be removed and lock only on bosses you killed with your OP.
    TL;DR
    Boss kill is boss kill. Once you kill it you can't roll for loot again for that week.Doesnt matter did you rolled on loot or not. Instance lock is another thing you can kill same boss but loot is forbidden.

    Good idea

  4. #34
    Shadowlander
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    It isnt good to call my idea a "boss lock" cause that is something totally different. A boss lock is what Warcraft has atm. That system is were you can only kill a boss once a week but there isnt an instance id. So if you did the weekly in GSB, you couldnt go in with a fresh run for a full clear on the boss lock system. But you could go in for say a final boss kill only group. A boss lock is basically the system we have now minus the raid id's.


    In short:
    Loot Lock(my idea):
    Times you can kill a boss per week: unlimited
    Times you can get loot from said boss: once
    Raid ID: none

    Boss Lock:
    Times you can kill a boss per week: once
    Times you can get loot from said boss: once
    Raid ID: none

    Instance Lock:
    Times you can kill a boss per week: once
    Times you can get loot from said boss: once
    Raid ID: Yes
    Last edited by Redsock; 08-24-2012 at 05:52 AM.

  5. #35
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    Its a good idea. Frankly I would settle for anything other than what we have right now as its a terrible system. I would settle for boss locks...boss loot table locks...anything!

  6. #36
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cassavir View Post
    Once again you didnt explained it briefly.
    Lets me try.
    Once last item from X boss is distributed to raid you are saved to that boss loot for that week.

    Thats not correct because if i need item from Maelforge,ill run Maelforge 20 times and then roll on 1 item which I need when it drops.


    Good idea
    Quote Originally Posted by Redsock View Post


    In short:
    Loot Lock(my idea):
    Times you can kill a boss per week: unlimited
    Times you can get loot from said boss: only on first boss kill for that week
    Raid ID: none

    Boss Lock:
    Times you can kill a boss per week: unlimited
    Times you can get loot from said boss: only on first boss kill
    Raid ID: none

    Raid ID: Yes
    My idea together with your idea will make progression faster and gearing at same pace as its now.
    Because as i quoted myself,i dont want to grind same boss for 3000 times for then to roll on 1 item which i need.
    Thats not point of drops and RNG. If i want free loot only for my class ill cry on forums that every boss drop every item. You see my point now.
    Faster progression and same gearing speed.

  7. #37
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    No, my post was just to set a clear line between the 3 major lock out systems as defined by the MMO community. Not to debate your post.

  8. #38
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    Come on guys! Keep this good discussion going and hopefully we'll get a Dev or CM response soon!

    I hope I am fielding all your questions well, so you guys are understanding what I m trying to get in the game

  9. #39
    Plane Walker Matsu's Avatar
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    Good idea, terrible explanations.

    Boss dies the 1st time. That's your one shot at loot from that boss for the week. Even if you leave before loot is assigned or rolled on. Boss dies a second time. You get an exp token. Tying it to loot distribution and not boss death leaves it wide open to abuse. Would need to account for logouts just prior to boss death so that can't be exploited either.

    I can already see the drama for guilds that have decent sized raid rosters.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redsock View Post
    I want to talk to the Devs about a new raid lock out system that I think will benefit the raiding community. If you guys are familiar with the Warcraft looking for raid system, they have a “loot lock” system in place. Though WoW developed this idea, they didn’t take it to its full potential. The loot lock system allows a player to run a raid as many times as they like during a week, but that player can only roll on the gear or get marks ONCE per week per character. Now the great thing about Rift is the Planar Attunement system brings in a reward for those that are locked to the bosses they help kill. You get the exp from the mobs killed as usual, but as an added bonus, if you are loot locked, you get a 50k PA exp item. This would allow people in guilds that do the weeklies as a guild to help their friends finish the weeklies. Also, if a player gets locked to say 2 bosses in a raid and missed the continuation, they can jump in a fresh run to finish the raid and get loot off the remaining bosses they have not locked.



    Now the rest of this post is mostly for the Devs to explain how they can implement this system. To setup the loot lock system, you could make an array with index 0 to how every many bosses you have in the game. Currently there are 56 bosses and mini-bosses in the raids. So the array would be 0 to 55. Then all you have to do is place a value in each index of 0 or 1, 0 being not locked and 1 being locked.


    Now the only thing I didn’t figure out is how to prevent a not locked person from trading loot to a locked person in the same raid. I would need a little info on how the loot system works internally.
    I think the idea has some merit, but I do have an issue with the wording so I may be of base here. Right now in raids we can gear some individuals up that are behind the rest in gear. Gear that would rot for most of us can be passed down to the new guys and they can receive multiple drops in a single raid, or in the case of tank drops they go to the tanks in the raid so again multiple drops to a single player per raid.

    So I am not a huge fan of the basic principle behind the "once per week" loot rule if it pertains to the entire dungeon.

    My main issue with the current system is my group only does the top floor in HK. that means even if I wanted to help out another group on the bottom floor I can't. The current lockouts should only be for bosses killed not the entire dungeon.

    If what you are proposing is one drop per week per boss so that once you have killed a certain boss you would have no loot rights to that specific boss again in the same week I am 100% behind it.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greyform View Post
    I think the idea has some merit, but I do have an issue with the wording so I may be of base here. Right now in raids we can gear some individuals up that are behind the rest in gear. Gear that would rot for most of us can be passed down to the new guys and they can receive multiple drops in a single raid, or in the case of tank drops they go to the tanks in the raid so again multiple drops to a single player per raid.

    So I am not a huge fan of the basic principle behind the "once per week" loot rule if it pertains to the entire dungeon.

    My main issue with the current system is my group only does the top floor in HK. that means even if I wanted to help out another group on the bottom floor I can't. The current lockouts should only be for bosses killed not the entire dungeon.

    If what you are proposing is one drop per week per boss so that once you have killed a certain boss you would have no loot rights to that specific boss again in the same week I am 100% behind it.
    He's talking about the per boss loot style you describe in your last paragraph rather than the once per dungeon loot style you describe in the 2nd. Really is a good system, as someone who sometimes just runs dungeons for the hell of it, it would be nice. Also, I like to get my weekly out of the way on Wednesday if possible, but I would also like to help guildies do it on the weekend (when most of them tend to do it), so it would be win win.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluelightt View Post
    He's talking about the per boss loot style you describe in your last paragraph rather than the once per dungeon loot style you describe in the 2nd. Really is a good system, as someone who sometimes just runs dungeons for the hell of it, it would be nice. Also, I like to get my weekly out of the way on Wednesday if possible, but I would also like to help guildies do it on the weekend (when most of them tend to do it), so it would be win win.
    Yah I am in the same boat as you Blue. There are times when we could really use X class but everyones main is locked to it already. This would let people help others out more.
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  13. #43
    Prophet of Telara Shaidar Haran's Avatar
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    Ok, so the Op has a solid idea and I agree with it if it follows these ideas:

    1. I go in HK and kill Murdantix. I am now able to choose loot from his drops. Once he died, I cannot get any other loot or marks from any other Murdantix(es) that week. You should not be able to look at loot then camp and try again for a specific loot item.

    2. I like the idea of being able to run more than 1 HK on my mage each week.

    3. I'm kind of wary about Rep Farming this way. Since iirc, in RoS the mobs give 800 rep per kill, you can go in there kill up to the first Idol, zone out and redo. Farming rep much faster than outside of RoS and only needing maybe 5-8 people. So people could just cheese the idols, zone out and repeat. I think that might be more of an Idol issue tho rather than this topic issue.

    4. We would have to figure out how to deal with the person who "logs out right before boss dies and asks his buddy what dropped before logging back in."
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  14. #44
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaidar Haran View Post
    3. I'm kind of wary about Rep Farming this way. Since iirc, in RoS the mobs give 800 rep per kill, you can go in there kill up to the first Idol, zone out and redo. Farming rep much faster than outside of RoS and only needing maybe 5-8 people. So people could just cheese the idols, zone out and repeat. I think that might be more of an Idol issue tho rather than this topic issue.
    1. Not sure how that's different from what you can do now other than not killing the focus
    2. Not sure how that's a bad thing anyway, rep grinds are stupid

    4. We would have to figure out how to deal with the person who "logs out right before boss dies and asks his buddy what dropped before logging back in."
    Easy. If you would be eligible for the drop (they have rules in place for this) then you are locked to the boss. Whether he logs back in or not he's locked but also eligible for the boss's loot. Regardless of that it would now take 1 minute for him to log out mid combat.
    Last edited by TheGrinnz; 08-24-2012 at 01:01 PM.

  15. #45
    Plane Walker Dylbert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaidar Haran View Post
    4. We would have to figure out how to deal with the person who "logs out right before boss dies and asks his buddy what dropped before logging back in."
    Have the lockout flag occur once the boss is engaged by anyone in the raid. Or once the boss is down to, say, 50%.

    This would prevent someone from logging out before the kill to escape the lockout flag.
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