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Thread: Assassins. What they do, and should do.

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    Telaran Insidiae's Avatar
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    Default Assassins. What they do, and should do.

    As we all know, melee rogues (in pvp, somewhat pve) are a joke. I believe most of the community agree that rogues need buffs. Specifically, Assassins, somewhat nightblades, bladedancers, and rangers. I don't pve, but I am a vivid pvper. I've played wow for 5 years as a rogue, and even though the rogue class went through some tough times in WoW, I've never seen it near as bad as melee rogues are in this game. Since assassin is the premire melee rogue pvp tree people seem to play (and want to be viable in pvp), I will be addressing what I see are issues and things I think should be added in order to make them viable in pvp.

    First issue, is the Survival-to-damage ratio. This is way off, especially compared to the other melee class in the game. Warriors. Warriors do more damage, and have more survival than any rogue build could make up. I'm not suggesting blanketing our damage to be higher, or our survival, but I believe we need mechanics that support this issue. The fact it takes assassin 7 - 10 seconds to ramp their burst(needing impale up and final blow), and because how squishy the soul is, it's rare that we get more than 2 final blows before we die.

    Second issue, is Mobility-to-Damage. Anyone knows, in order to do somewhat decent damage, is to play 51 assassin. Serpent strike is the only way melee rogues seem to do decent damage. However, since this damage is still not as high as our other melee counterpart(warriors again..) We are forced to take 15 infiltrator to have Anathema. Anathema is also subpar, and I will address that issue also below. Since we have to take 51 assassin, to do damage, and take 15 infiltrator to make our damage viable, through anathema and the other damage talents, this leaves us with 0 remaining points. Between 51 assassin and 15 infiltrator, we have ZERO mobility. You may argue that we have malicious strike, but that is a total joke considering we can only use it twice(7 seconds, 3 seconds, immune). This gives any class that can snare you, remove snares, or simply last longer than 10 seconds, the ability to range you. This pigeon holds us into taking 0 ranger to do terribad damage(better than none eh?) on targets we can't reach. This is a very very bad mechanic, when you have to spend ALL 51 POINTS INTO A MELEE TREE, AND THE REST INTO THE PVP TREE, AND HAVE NOTHING AT ALL THAT CAN KEEP YOU IN MELEE RANGE. We spend all 66 points to do subpar damage(warriors doing the viable damage..) and nothing within those 66 points gives us the ability to continue to do our subpar damage. Now, if you dropped 51 assassin, or 15 infiltrator to gain points in marksman for the speed increase/speed shots, you would lose either, A: Your damage. or B. Anathema. Making you equal to the threat of a mosquito on the field. I believe this is by far the largest issue for the rogue melee souls. You choose either: Mobility or Damage. If you choose mobility, you do nothing but run around poking people. If you pick damage, you become a turtle with spikes on your shell. Anyone that's stupid enough to sit on top of you might get hurt. But that's if they are that stupid.

    Third issue. Anathema vs Lingering Wounds. I think this one is obvious enough. Lingering wounds can be reapplied whenever. Cannot be dispelled. Anathema requires one cleanse to be removed, and has a 30 second cooldown. 1.5 second GCD to remove it, leaving 28.5 seconds out of 30 seconds that Anathema won't be up. Almost a joke of an ability.

    Solutions? This one is pretty easy I think. One simple fact, is that assassins damage revolves around stealth. Many people suggested buffing slip away, but many non rogues HATE the fact that slip away is used as a free get out of jail card. I believe any rogue who uses slip away defensively, is a bad anyways. I've always used it offensively. (however, using it defensively to allow my healer several seconds to catch up healing on me, allowing me to reopen several seconds later is one defensive way I do agree with using it). I believe a GREAT solution, is to add an ability similar to shadowdance from Sub rogues from wow. http://www.wowhead.com/spell=51713/shadow-dance Link for references. I believe assassin shouldn't have a better slip away, but some way of accessing stealth abilitys much more often than they already do. This would not only help(not fix) with mobility issues(having to escape a fight to restealth in order to burst again), but would have a great deal fixing assassins damage, and would give a nice playstyle curve(assassins are pretty bland in how they play imo). Another way to help with mobility, is to add a decent speed boost to slip away. This would make switching targets and reopening much easier and would be much smoother. Another solution to assassin, is making out of stealth abilitys, decrease the cooldown of slip away. This would gives assassins a reason to not always rely around stealth. Something like savage strike, backstab, serpent strike, etc, reduce the cooldown on slip away by 1 - 4 seconds. Since this goes back to "AMG ROGUE IS A WUSSY CUS HE USED SLIP AWAY TO GET AWAY", changing hidden veils cooldown to 2 minutes instead of 1 should be enough to balance it out. It would make slip away available as a "get away" every 2 minutes(as it already is in game), but allowing it to be used offensively much more often. With these buffs, this would increase assassins damage around their main mechanic of stealth. I don't think their damage would still be par to warriors damage(mabye they shouldn't be?), but this would allow for more "in and out" fighting. This would give assassins a great deal of survivalbility(being able to drop targets with slip away more often and 3 second immunity to allow heals to pick them up somewhat, but not being able to escape a fight).

    I think Anathema and Fel blades should be switched. Nuff said.

    One, just one, mobility ability should be added to the assassin tree; especially if you have 51 points in it. It's a little crazy you spend all those points to do damage but have nothing that helps you do that damage. Some gap closer should be added. Ideas? A debuff that when a target moves more than 15 meters from the rogue, they are a rooted for 2 seconds(unbreakable by damage, and immune to DR effects) and the rogue instantly teleports behind the target. 30 second cooldown seems appropriate. Duration is debatable. Lasting the whole cooldown of 30 seconds seems fair enough. If people believe it's to overpowered, then 10 seconds would be a minimum.

    If these changes take effect, and players are still not happy with the damage, add a cooldown that causes the next 5 - 10 assassin attacks to do 70% non-physical damage/30% physical damage. 2 minute cooldown? Doesn't seem that overpowered.

    What are your opinions on this suggestion forums?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Insidiae View Post
    As we all know, melee rogues (in pvp, somewhat pve) are a joke.
    I almost stopped reading here. Melee rogue is the staple of all pve dps right now.

    I don't pve, but I am a vivid pvper.
    ahahah. This is where I stopped reading. Vivid pvper. Cmon.

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    the assassin should be modeled after the currently best balanced rogue class

    http://www.lowpings.net/images/Gamin...-Spy-Games.jpg

    get in get out with a quick kill, die fast when seen
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodbourne View Post
    All I see is your team gettin rolled but managing to win anyway.

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    Telaran Insidiae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fonk View Post
    I almost stopped reading here. Melee rogue is the staple of all pve dps right now.



    ahahah. This is where I stopped reading. Vivid pvper. Cmon.
    I don't consider Sabdancer as a melee spec. It's a ranged spec that needs to be in melee occasionally and it wasn't even intended. I want to use daggers. Sorry. Yes, i'm a pvper and not a pver. Is that a problem?

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    Okay I'll bite. I'll read and go through the rest of this.

    Second issue, is Mobility-to-Damage. Anyone knows, in order to do somewhat decent damage, is to play 51 assassin.
    lol what

    I believe assassin shouldn't have a better slip away, but some way of accessing stealth abilitys much more often than they already do. This would not only help(not fix) with mobility issues
    How will this help mobility?


    Also, you really think a speed increase and CD decrease will NOT cater to those using slip away as a get out of jail free card?

    I think Anathema and Fel blades should be switched. Nuff said.
    What? Nuff said? Why?

    One, just one, mobility ability should be added to the assassin tree
    0pt riftstalker.
    Last edited by Fonk; 09-01-2011 at 10:59 AM.

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    Telaran Insidiae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fonk View Post
    I almost stopped reading here. Melee rogue is the staple of all pve dps right now.



    ahahah. This is where I stopped reading. Vivid pvper. Cmon.
    Also I believe the title says Assassin. Not Sabdancer. Show me a 51 sin doing viable dps and I'll agree you're right.

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    Telaran Insidiae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fonk View Post
    Okay I'll bite. I'll read and go through the rest of this.

    lol what


    How will this help mobility?


    Also, you really think a speed increase and CD decrease will NOT cater to those using slip away as a get out of jail free card?

    What? Nuff said? Why?

    0pt riftstalker.
    You obviously didn't read what I said about Hidden Veil. If you can't drop one dot on the rogue, then that's your fault.

    It will help mobility by forcing enemys to drop target, and giving you 3 seconds to switch to another target. Giving a speed boost(40% seems fine) for 3 seconds during slip away is plenty to be able to switch to another target, but not to much to be able to escape a fight.

    0pt riftstalker? Troll more. You would have to give up 0 ranger anyways, gimping you even more.

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    Ascendant Proclus_Lycaeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by generatedname View Post
    the assassin should be modeled after the currently best balanced rogue class

    http://www.lowpings.net/images/Gamin...-Spy-Games.jpg

    get in get out with a quick kill, die fast when seen
    I prefer sneak in invisibly.
    Backstab then hit follow up with "Dancing Steel".
    If you can't kill it, hit the "Slip Away" and retreat.
    If you kill it, drink a potion to heal up, hit invisibility, and get out.


    There is no need to "die fast when seen". ;)
    Last edited by Proclus_Lycaeus; 09-01-2011 at 11:06 AM.
    Retired from the forum community 12/19/2017

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    Quote Originally Posted by Insidiae View Post
    0pt riftstalker? Troll more.
    I'm not trolling. It's like the guy in the mage forum the other day. "Why do elementalists get the fire pets!! Pyros should get fire pets!!!"

    Pyro is not a pet soul. Assassin is not a mobility soul.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Insidiae View Post
    I don't consider Sabdancer as a melee spec. It's a ranged spec that needs to be in melee occasionally and it wasn't even intended. I want to use daggers. Sorry. Yes, i'm a pvper and not a pver. Is that a problem?
    Sabdancer IS melee otherwise you are losing poison damage off your auto attack and liosing a lot of DPS

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    Rift Disciple Misterlister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Insidiae View Post
    I don't consider Sabdancer as a melee spec. It's a ranged spec that needs to be in melee occasionally and it wasn't even intended. I want to use daggers. Sorry. Yes, i'm a pvper and not a pver. Is that a problem?

    I believe they are mocking your use of vivid instead of avid, rather than your choice of PVP vs PVE.
    KILL THE DUDE WITH THE THING!
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    Telaran Insidiae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misterlister View Post
    I believe they are mocking your use of vivid instead of avid, rather than your choice of PVP vs PVE.
    My mistake. I didn't check my grammar and spelling after I had typed it.

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    Telaran Insidiae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fonk View Post
    I'm not trolling. It's like the guy in the mage forum the other day. "Why do elementalists get the fire pets!! Pyros should get fire pets!!!"

    Pyro is not a pet soul. Assassin is not a mobility soul.
    Then why does every warrior dps soul get a mobility ability?

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    Telaran Insidiae's Avatar
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    How about this? Take backstab off cooldown.

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