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Thread: Forced to PVP?

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Forced to PVP?

    In working though the Endless saga, I reached the quest called "The WAD". This requires that you win a round in the Codex. Now I have not been a PVPer and have not ranked up the various equipment. After spending several hours over several days being soundly beaten, without getting close once, I begin to believe it may not be possible to complete the saga. I understand that PVP is exciting for many folks and for some of them, it is the main purpose of the game. My complaint is that you have taken a PVE quest saga and forced folks to PVP to complete it.

    My suggestion, since this is a suggestions forum, don't force pvp in a pve quest series. I joined a pve server for a reason.

    A side suggestion, really just a heads up, the factions are very unbalanced in the PVP instances, at least the times I have played. If the match making for the instances put players together based on rank, it might even things out a bit.

  2. #2
    Plane Touched
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    The Saga is made for you to have a taste of ALL content. That means that content be a warfront. No one is forcing you to complete the saga quest.

  3. #3
    Rift Master KaiHeilos's Avatar
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    Defiants get weird quests.

  4. #4
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yorg View Post
    In working though the Endless saga, I reached the quest called "The WAD". This requires that you win a round in the Codex. Now I have not been a PVPer and have not ranked up the various equipment. After spending several hours over several days being soundly beaten, without getting close once, I begin to believe it may not be possible to complete the saga. I understand that PVP is exciting for many folks and for some of them, it is the main purpose of the game. My complaint is that you have taken a PVE quest saga and forced folks to PVP to complete it.

    My suggestion, since this is a suggestions forum, don't force pvp in a pve quest series. I joined a pve server for a reason.

    A side suggestion, really just a heads up, the factions are very unbalanced in the PVP instances, at least the times I have played. If the match making for the instances put players together based on rank, it might even things out a bit.
    No, you have not taken a PVE quest saga. You have taken a quest that is a saga in the game. The game features more than one playstyle. Show me anywhere in the quest text where it states that the saga only contains pve

  5. #5
    Soulwalker
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    I agree with the OP

    And maybe you should be told upfront when you begin the quest that it will involve doing quests in world, in dungeons and pvp, before you spend time doing something that you didnt sign on for.

    The quest chain at the start sets up the expectation that it will continue in the same vein - then after already putting in considerable time and effort it changes unexpectedly to involve doing dungeons and then pvp - people will be annoyed, its not what they signed on for.

    It may seem a clever way to get people doing things that they wouldn't normally, but when it's done without warning it's not clever, it's manipulative and is even worse when players who haven't pvpd before and don't have the gear and rankings etc probably cant even win.

    I was working my way through this quest until I read this post and saw the pvp requirement. I wont be doing any more on it.

  6. #6
    Rift Disciple
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    Doing one Codex isn't going to kill you, nor will doing 10. Who knows, you might enjoy it if you open your mind.

    For a comparison, if you find yourself doing 'school of hard knocks' in WoW one day, desperate to complete a Year-long minimum pve quest, you'll have a lot more reason to complain THEN!

  7. #7
    Plane Walker Raimla's Avatar
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    First you are not forced to do anything in a game (atleast I hope for you, would not enjoy playing being forced by anyone). You want to finish that quest and it happens to include PvP. Sadly, not all quests are going to be exactly of your liking.

    Second it is not impossible. Otherwise I would have never been able to finish it and many others with me.

    I am not sure if it is really the idea of having to do PvP that is making you feel like it is a less fun part of the quest or that the outcome is uncertain of your time spent. It is different from PvE that if you do A you might not get B, or you might but it is not certain. If you lose a few WFs in a row it can be a good thing to move onto something else for a while and try again later. By that time different players will be signing up for both factions.

    Don't get me wrong. I was surprised by it at first as well as we are all fed the idea by games that quests are PvE. But rather than being the utter carebear I could be I hopped into a few WFs and got it done while trying to enjoy myself. It is an epic quest and it nowhere stated PvE only. It is challenging and time consuming and when finished I felt like I accomplished something.

    I am sorry that you feel like you are wasting your time, but aren't we all by playing the game?

    So no, I do not feel like the quest forces you to do PvP nor that it should be changed. The death saga quest chain covers all parts of the game: quests outdoors, dungeons, pvp, expert and raid rifts and raid dungeon.
    Last edited by Raimla; 08-31-2011 at 03:05 AM.

  8. #8
    Telaran Charred's Avatar
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    Fun that you started this topic now.
    That quest was sitting in my logs for ages and just yesterday I got it done. I just decided that while there is a celebration bonus I can as well go into warfront and get roflstomped by some R8's. It took me 7 loses in Codex to finally get that one victory. But now I have my Archmage soul, PvP rift lure and about 20K favor for I don't know what.
    Did I fell in love with PvP after that adventure? No.
    Did I get some experience of what PvP is and some rewards I may as well use? Yes.

    So, to put it short, that quest just giving you a taste of PvP and hold more rewards than just 20 gold from Sylver. But in no way it is forcing you to become PvPer or go and farm all the way to Rank 8. God knows, may be someone, who never ever tried PvP before, will even find it as a new hobby.

  9. #9
    Ascendant TheDrizzle404's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charred View Post
    Fun that you started this topic now.
    That quest was sitting in my logs for ages and just yesterday I got it done. I just decided that while there is a celebration bonus I can as well go into warfront and get roflstomped by some R8's. It took me 7 loses in Codex to finally get that one victory. But now I have my Archmage soul, PvP rift lure and about 20K favor for I don't know what.
    Did I fell in love with PvP after that adventure? No.
    Did I get some experience of what PvP is and some rewards I may as well use? Yes.

    So, to put it short, that quest just giving you a taste of PvP and hold more rewards than just 20 gold from Sylver. But in no way it is forcing you to become PvPer or go and farm all the way to Rank 8. God knows, may be someone, who never ever tried PvP before, will even find it as a new hobby.
    do it some more and you can get some mounts. ;)

  10. #10
    Plane Walker Dourgen's Avatar
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    When a quest contains PVP content...can we just call it PVP content instead of saying take the PVP out of my PVE?
    Thanks for the haircuts.

  11. #11
    Telaran Dragon6567's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raimla View Post
    Don't get me wrong. I was surprised by it at first as well as we are all fed the idea by games that quests are PvE. But rather than being the utter carebear
    So, why must players who don't like play pvp be carebears? This is so high school, ridiculous and uncalled for. Everyone has their own playing style and deserved to have it without being placed in a category or ridiculed for it. I find placing names on players who dislike a feature in a game to be immature. We are all people who like games nothing more.

  12. #12
    Rift Disciple
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    I agree with OP 100%. PvP should not be required for a massive PvE quest. Not even a little bit.

    I checked around a bit and saw: "Only time in the whole game that non-pvp'er are forced to pvp if whey want to advance the quest (something devs claimed would never happen). If you don't want to pvp in Rift, do not bother starting the loooooong quest chain 'Saga of the Endless'.." ..evilhippo

    If I understand that comment (and if the comment is correct), the equivalent Guardian quest does not require it. Nor is it required anywhere else in the Defiant quest. That makes it an aberration, and (again if the comment by evilhippo is right) against the stated policy of devs.

    For those clueless folks who refuse to get it... A significant number of people who play MMO's don't want to PvP... at all. The game is (wisely) designed to accommodate this. Why? Those folks (say 5% to 20% of the player base) will leave and quit paying money to Trion if Trion starts shoving something down their throat that they don't want to do.

    Put it this way... Folks who don't like to PvP (rather obviously) like to PvE -- and the big Saga's are the epitome of PvE. It is THE massive PvE cake - and putting a PvP quest into it is like finding a roach in the cake. Not good. And frankly, from a business point of view, stupid.

    Responding to those who suggest that the Saga encompasses all styles of gameplay: It clearly doesn't. All of the other quests in the massive collection of quests are PvE. The other faction (apparently) does not have a PvP quest. Now, if PvP were a common requirement in Saga quests, then it would be a different story -- it would be clear that it was designed to be a PvP + PvE Saga. But one PvP quest in an otherwise massive PvE quest collection is simply -- broken. Some designer failed to follow the design guidlines and slipped this quest in. It should be removed.

    Personal experience: When I got into playing WoW, I figured that eventually I would end up playing PvP. PvP is fairly different from PvE and has a different mindset. And to be good, you have to put in a lot of time and know not just your own class, but other classes (and variations of them) pretty well. So I figured that I would do that eventually. I started doing the cool holiday events and figuring I would go for A Long Strange Journey... only to find after several holidays that some holidays required PvP. Moreover, STUPID, sabotaging your own team type PvP. (In particular the Wintervolt costume requirement really incensed me: 1) bad enough that I was sabotaging the team by being a completely inexperienced pvper, but also: 2) costume dropped off if you died, so the best approach was to a) hide and not fight at all, and/or b) bail from the BG as soon as you died.) This experience did not endear PvP to me -- rather it so ticked me off that I swore off doing PvP in WoW. Ever. It also meant that I wasn't able to complete "A Long Strange Journey" or many of the holidays. So not only did I not get into PvP, but also each of the holidays ticked off as it reminded me of Blizzard trying to cram PvP down my throat. And that reaction is part of what cost Blizzard my business.

    Now Rift: New game, new company... If I've got the time to learn to be good at it, I'll eventually take a shot at PvP in Rift. But I won't be doing that if Trion tries to cram it down my throat. From what I've seen so far they've been very good about not doing that. PvP is there, its an option, but is entirely skipable. But this one exception the broken exception to that and needs to be fixed.

  13. #13
    Ascendant TheDrizzle404's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rymer View Post
    I agree with OP 100%. PvP should not be required for a massive PvE quest. Not even a little bit.

    I checked around a bit and saw: "Only time in the whole game that non-pvp'er are forced to pvp if whey want to advance the quest (something devs claimed would never happen). If you don't want to pvp in Rift, do not bother starting the loooooong quest chain 'Saga of the Endless'.." ..evilhippo
    as a pvper/pvper equally, and a former WoW player during at time when pvpers were forced to raid to have the best weapons, i really feel absolutely no sympathy for you. id also love you to show me someone who quits over it. even just one person. you wont find one because its not a big deal, and certainly not a big enough reason to throw away a game.

    im glad theyre adding pvp roles to quest content. quests shouldnt only revolve around pve, and pvp quests shouldnt always be generic dailies.
    Last edited by TheDrizzle404; 09-07-2011 at 03:33 AM.

  14. #14
    Rift Master
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    I feel bad for the future team mates I will have when I need to do this part of the quest. I have 0 PvP gear and don't intend to get any.

  15. #15
    Shadowlander LyricDawnhagen's Avatar
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    I am always surprised by the the comments from people on this issue. I would think they more than anyone, the PvP community would hate the existence of required PvP participation for a PvE quest series.

    Here is a quest that requires a PvE player to enter into their Warfront. This PvE player does NOT want to be there. They do not have the gear, class build, or PvP playing skills to actually contribute to the Warfront. I guess the Guardian would love it because the PvE player is just an easy kill and no real threat.

    Therefor the PvPers will be constantly having to carry these PvE players through the Warfront. And based on some of the PvE player comments here, not just once but possibly many time as they try to get a Warfront victory. So the PvE quester is taking up a place in the Warfront that could have gone to a regular PvP player that might have helped them win the event. I would think that the PvP players would be howling mad about something like this.

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