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Thread: Idea for a Mage Tanking Soul

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default Idea for a Mage Tanking Soul

    Not that Mages need a tanking soul at all, but I thought I'd post my thoughts since it's early in the morning, I haven't slept at all, and right now it seems like a good idea.

    [Soul Name]:
    ----------

    To be decided. Probably something like Spirit Sage, or possibly an Illusionist. For this post, I'm going with Spirit Sage 'cause it sounds neat.

    [Concept]:
    ----------

    A ranged tanking soul. That's right - ranged. Mages in Rift don't seem like frontline fighters to me, what with their robes and books, and the idea of a ranged tank seems like a fun new idea.

    [Bwah? How?]:
    ----------

    The soul in question would have a cornerstone ability similar to the Rogue and Cleric tanking souls that basically 'turns' them into a tank when it's active. In this case, the ability would look a little something like this:

    Spiritual Vanguard
    3% Mana --- 30 Meter Range
    Instant
    10.00 Seconds

    Summons an immobile spirit at the targetted location tied directly to the Mage's lifeforce. All threat gained by the mage is transferred to this spirit, plus an additional 100%. The spirit has an unlimited pool of health, but any conditions and damage inflicted to it are also inflicted against the mage. Damage transferred in this way is reduced by xx percentage. While this spirit is out, the mage's damage and healing from any non-Spirit Sage spells is reduced by 40%. The spirit is immune to any Area of Effect damage.

    [Explaining Stuff]:
    ----------

    So basically, once the mage pops down this spirit somewhere within 30 meters, the spirit takes on all the mage's threat and doubles it. The spirit can't die, but all damage inflicted against it is also done to the mage at a lowered amount.

    It's done this way so that healers can heal the mage as if they were healing the tank, and no one would have to bother targetting pets and such. (It would be super annoying to have to heal a pet in a group/raid environment, especially as you can't see their healthbars in raid frames.)

    It would likely be a percentage damage reduction similar to Rogue tanks that has a base amount of say... 25%, and can be increased and maintained through the use of spells and abilities in the Spirit Sage tree.

    Damage of other mage souls is lowered to keep it in line with the Rogue and Cleric tanking abilities, and so the mage wouldn't be able to have huge DPS ontop of the ability to "tank."

    The pet is immune to AoE damage because it's immobile and can't get out of the way of any boss abilities or environmental effects. However, since damage is only reduced if taken by the pet, it still means the mage himself must dodge these effects or take the usual big hit of damage without the mitigation. I feel that it sort of balances out, since there are a lot of AoE effects that can really hurt non-tanks (which the mage still essentially is if damage is taken directly), however it also helps in cases where there's a frontal cleave effect that the pet (and thus the mage) won't take damage from, and the mage himself can completely avoid if he's in the right spot.

    [Other Misc. Stuff (I use the abbreviation 'Misc.' because I can't spell 'miscellaneous' and I want this title to be shorter)]:
    ----------

    -As was mentioned earlier, the Spirit Sage would have other abilities that can be used to further reduce damage transferred to them by the spirit.

    -They would also get a passive health increase similar to warrior tanking souls that increases with each point spent in the tree. This would help get their HP in line with other tanks, and would make them a bit more survivable should they themselves stumble into an AoE and get hit hard.

    -Tanking from a ranged perspective would be a really interesting way to tank, in my opinion.

    -The Spirit Sage might do a mix of Death and Life damage, so that it could get some synergy with either the Warlock (more HPs and survivability cooldowns) or the Chloromancer (self heals, though with -40% damage/healing would not be as effective as a normal Chloro)

    -They might have an ability that temporarily causes any damage transferred by the spirit to be taken from their mana pool instead, in case things get sour.

    -Something

    -Profit


    What do you think? Post your opinions or any cool additions you can think that would make a neat mage tanking soul that's dynamic and not just any other tank. Keep in mind, I do NOT expect anything remotely like this to ever be implemented, I'm only posting for entertainment sake and to hear what other people think, bad or good. Thanks y'all.

  2. #2
    Telaran
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    Oh and one more thing I just thought of. The spirit would take the Mage's Focus stat and make that its Toughness stat, so that an entire new set of armors wouldn't have to be made specifically for mage tanks.

    Also the mage might get some specific buffs that give the spirit chances to parry/dodge/block or whatnot.

    Whole bunch of possibilities, really.
    Last edited by Elura; 08-11-2011 at 06:54 AM.

  3. #3
    Telaran
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    Oh, and one flaw I did just think of is that it would be damned useless in PvP.

    Might have to think of something for that. Perhaps a PvP-only buff that gives you the damage reduction that the spirit would have. <shrugs> Who knows.

  4. #4
    Telaran
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    Shameless bump. Maybe I should've posted later in the day so people would actually read it. Teehee.

  5. #5
    Soulwalker Elairant's Avatar
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    I honestly like the concept and the thought you've put into in. I first read it and though, Bwah?!!? STUIPD! But after reading all of the info you put into it, the pet and damage reduction (which I also went STUPID to) I actually think it's a plausible thing. v.v Would definatly need some kinks worked out and specifics, but I do like the idea and favor it as implimentation.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elura View Post
    [COLOR="gray"][SIZE="2"]
    [Other Misc. Stuff (I use the abbreviation 'Misc.' because I can't spell 'miscellaneous' and I want this title to be shorter)]:
    You cut 9 characters to make it shorter, then added in 18 words to explain why?

    Anyways, I love the idea of a mage tank. I don't know that this is the way to do it though.

    Is there any reason why you can't just have all those buffs apply to the mage itself? Staff tanking would be awesome! You would have similar issues to the rogue tanks though, cloth offers NOTHING for physical mitigation, so you'd need like a million % increase to get any effect out of it. Either that or you'd have to use shields of some sort like rogues do.

    I also don't like the idea of Focus = Toughness. Focus is so readily available that you'd be raid-tank ready in approximately 3.49 seconds after hitting level 50.

    Good idea, bad execution (IMO)
    I'M RIFTSTALKING YOUR MUM!

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  7. #7
    Soulwalker Elairant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paikis View Post
    Is there any reason why you can't just have all those buffs apply to the mage itself? Staff tanking would be awesome! You would have similar issues to the rogue tanks though, cloth offers NOTHING for physical mitigation, so you'd need like a million % increase to get any effect out of it. Either that or you'd have to use shields of some sort like rogues do.
    (IMO)
    You comment answers your question as to why it would be better to use the pet as the damage taker. If it wasn't and it didn't mitigate the damage before it hit the mage, then you end up with the problems you mentioned.

  8. #8
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paikis View Post
    You cut 9 characters to make it shorter, then added in 18 words to explain why?
    It was a joke.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paikis View Post
    Is there any reason why you can't just have all those buffs apply to the mage itself?
    That could be done easily enough, but it's already been done with Cleric and Rogue, and so the tank wouldn't be unique in any way. At least that was my thought. And you're right that there would have to be some crazy high +armor percentage number to put them on par with other tanks, as well as who knows what else.

    Using a pet that takes lowered damage is just a simplified means of doing things. It does need something that relates to gear though I guess, or else mages would be able to tank reasonably well without optimal gear. Maybe the pet's reduction can be related to a specific mage stat, like intelligence or spellpower.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paikis View Post
    I also don't like the idea of Focus = Toughness. Focus is so readily available that you'd be raid-tank ready in approximately 3.49 seconds after hitting level 50.
    I wasn't too positive on the availability of focus, though I didn't think it was that severe. Maybe something else then, like... half their focus? Not sure if Focus can even get so high so that half of it = toughness needed for raids. I can't think of the numbers off the top of my head. But I'll give it some thought, thanks!
    Last edited by Elura; 08-11-2011 at 11:00 PM.

  9. #9
    Shadowlander
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    This wouldn`t be that great of an idea to implement. Firstly that would be one more class that would take the role of tank for a group. Think about it, a pet with an unlimited amount of health that transfers reduced damage to its master. You wouldn`t even need warriors anymore because everyone would want a mage! Increased threat! Reduced damage! I can actually see all the exploits right now in my head that people would be using for this. A 30 meter range? You could send the pet into a rift and you and a healer sit back and you get chain healed while you nuke everything to death while your 100% threat pet keeps everything on him. And you are getting damage recieved at a reduced rate as if you were getting mitagation from a heavier armor class.

    I can see raids full of just mages and clerics now clearing out every instance in record time because they drop a few pets and have the healers chain cast on the mages like theres no tomorrow. Do you see how this could ruin it for alot of people? This might be an awsome idea for a single player game, but an mmo?

  10. #10
    Telaran
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    You'll also need to throw out a big heal nerf on the mage himself, since they are all mitigation and no actual health. If you didn't, you're essentially giving them like 3-4x heal effectiveness.

  11. #11
    Shadowlander Emilysa's Avatar
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    Perhaps instead of a pet you actually have the mage doing the tanking... with a skill like this?

    Ancestral Armor
    Cast: 2 Seconds
    Cool: 5 Seconds
    Cost: 35% of Base Mana

    The mage swathes themselves in a cloak of ancestral knowledge; increasing their armor by 250% and 2% additionally for every point invested in the Spirit Sage Soul. As well Increases the mages Endurance by 90%, and increasing their threat output by 250%. Ancestral Armor reduces all damage dealt by the mage by 40%, and reduces all healing down by the mage by 40%. Only one armor can be maintained at a time.

    Now, rather than having a overpowered tank you have basically what the rest of the classes do that aren't in plate armor. As well you'd see talents in the tree (as well a Passive Root at 1)
    that increase Melee, and Tanking Stats.


    Boon of the Elders
    Passive
    Converts Focus, Spell Crit, and Spell Power into their Melee counterparts.

    Looking like a Cleric aren't we now? The reason Tanking gear would have to be made is that if it were taken from any other stat, the mage would quickly suprass all other tanks (even with Focus to Toughness by .75). As well the mage would be forced to Melee so it would counteract their real need to cast. So they would need a set of Melee Attacks or Spells.

  12. #12
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Banewrath Sunblade View Post
    I can actually see all the exploits right now in my head that people would be using for this. A 30 meter range? You could send the pet into a rift and you and a healer sit back and you get chain healed while you nuke everything to death while your 100% threat pet keeps everything on him. And you are getting damage recieved at a reduced rate as if you were getting mitagation from a heavier armor class.
    Thank you for describing exactly how any other fight would go with a tank and healer. The only difference being the tank is tanking at range. I don't see any exploits there, that's exactly how I envisioned it. The mage has reduced damage and healing dealt, so while it can sit back and shoot spells it's not going to "nuke everything to death" very quickly at all like a DPS mage. Meanwhile the healer is doing their job healing the tank - exactly how it would go if, say, a warrior were to run in while keeping everything on him and "swording everything to death." The only difference is range.

    Quote Originally Posted by Servy View Post
    You'll also need to throw out a big heal nerf on the mage himself, since they are all mitigation and no actual health. If you didn't, you're essentially giving them like 3-4x heal effectiveness.
    This is already addressed in the original post, both under the description of the ability (mage does -40% damage and healing), and also in my Misc. notes where I said that the mage would get an increased health pool based on points spent in the tree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Emilysa View Post
    Perhaps instead of a pet you actually have the mage doing the tanking... with a skill like this?
    Like I mentioned before to a similar response, your idea would just make a mage tank exactly like the other ones. I was trying to think of something fresh and different. An approach that would be new, but hopefully fun and enjoyable as well. Thematically it also just seems silly to me to have a mage being able to directly take on the assault of a dragon/ogre by themselves and be like "u no hurt me".

    While you'd almost get the same result if the mage himself were to take on these buffs and be able to tank, having the pet do it while leaving the mage still vulnerable to AoE and environmental effects adds a fun twist to tanking in my opinion. For example, on my warrior tank I can sit there and soak up the AoE from Caelia the Stormtouched in CC like it's nothing (even before the nerf). If this mage soul were to tank the same instance, they would want to avoid that AoE because if they take the damage directly, it would be completely unmitigated since it didn't come through their pet.

    Granted, there are some boss mechanics that could be iffy with an immobile pet taking the mobs' attention. Dichrom from Deepstrike Mines comes to mind. In that fight, the boss keeps attempting to knockback the tank into the lasers so that he takes more damage. This, of course, would not damage the pet at all (and therefor not the mage), which means the idea does need some tweaking like Elairant mentioned in his reply. Perhaps effects like knockbacks are transferred through the pet as well, and so the mage himself would get flung back whenever the pet was under such an effect. That could potentially make thing interesting, seeing as their are no walls in that area for the mage to safely get his back to, and if a laser hit him directly (which would be unmitigated) then it would be a huge blow to the tank.

    Thank you for the criticism all the same!
    Last edited by Elura; 08-12-2011 at 02:46 PM.

  13. #13
    Telaran
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    Just because I maybe didn't stress this point enough earlier:

    The pet cannot die, however any damage it takes is transferred to the mage.

    This does not mean "invulnerable, overpowered tanking". It's simply a means for the mage to tank at range, which is the point of this concept.

    The damage that is transferred by the pet gets lowered in a way that puts it on par with other tank's mitigation. The mage is able to physically stay back and shoot spells, but he'll still be taking the damage as if he were standing in the middle of whatever pack of mobs he put his pet into.
    Last edited by Elura; 08-12-2011 at 03:15 PM.

  14. #14
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    Actually I was thinking something more like a Mage soul that has a butt ton of self defensive spells that revolve around building charge with threat abilities and them consuming charge to activate defensive shield-like buffs.

    Imagine, if you will, damage over time abilities of... some sort of magic school or maybe even somehow physical damage that has an extra threat modifier. It can do low damage but grant high charge, maybe closer to +20 or +25 per cast, and would still do plenty of threat because of the threat modifier (And if still not enough, it's not difficult to place a passive threat boost talent in the soul tree). The charge can them be consumed in a single burst to activate a buff of some kind, whether it's extra avoidance, mitigation, a damage absorption shield, or even magic damage resistance, and the duration of the buff could depend on how much charge the mage has when it's cast (100 charge meaning the longest duration possible, consuming the whole bar).

    This would make the warlock tree and possibly the chloro tree ideal for mixing in, considering the warlock tree has the charge boost talent everybody adores, plus the various defensive cooldowns and endurance buffs/talents. They even get a damage over time spell passive that effects global DoT damage, making it a great threat talent for this mage tanking tree.

    Just a thought.

    *EDIT* I was actually just thinking, having a pet that's actually as powerful as another player isn't going to happen, and the reason is simple - PvP. Any class or soul combo that effectively has the power of two people in one is due for immediate nerfs.
    Last edited by Xandaroth; 08-14-2011 at 06:41 AM.

  15. #15
    Rift Chaser AintEvenMadBro's Avatar
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    Silliest idea ever.
    Freyn likes boys in hotpants.

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