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Thread: iLvl

  1. #1
    General of Telara phyraxian's Avatar
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    Default iLvl

    Can we get ilvl on gear? Being the relatively new player that I am, trying to learn the difference between dungeon gear and raid gear plus crafted/quest/drops/planar gear is daunting, and not immediately obvious.

    I know I can look at stats, but that doesn't really tell me where it stands against other gear or where it comes from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phyraxian View Post
    Can we get ilvl on gear? Being the relatively new player that I am, trying to learn the difference between dungeon gear and raid gear plus crafted/quest/drops/planar gear is daunting, and not immediately obvious.

    I know I can look at stats, but that doesn't really tell me where it stands against other gear or where it comes from.
    I am not crazy about this idea because it leads to the idea that one piece of gear is always better than another. It takes away the idea that toons can build their stats differently, and that gear can and should be situational. If you are a cleric that's healing, you want Wis and focus; if you are a cleric that's tanking you want more endurance. Is one piece of gear better than another - no, it depends on how you build your character. Gear labelling and scoring also feeds elitism, which occurs in other forms, I know... but why make it worse.

    That being said, I've not seen any MMO yet that does a really good job of introducing new players to what their various stats are and what they do so that they can make good gear decisions and learn to group. I would love to see part of a tutorial where you'd have a quest that requires a rogue to backstab, or where you get pwnd by an mob and then you go back and a NPC gives you a huge Crit buff, or a mage has to moderate his aggro and not pull it off a tank pet companion in order to succeed.

  3. #3
    General of Telara phyraxian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allegre View Post
    I am not crazy about this idea because it leads to the idea that one piece of gear is always better than another. It takes away the idea that toons can build their stats differently, and that gear can and should be situational. If you are a cleric that's healing, you want Wis and focus; if you are a cleric that's tanking you want more endurance. Is one piece of gear better than another - no, it depends on how you build your character. Gear labelling and scoring also feeds elitism, which occurs in other forms, I know... but why make it worse.

    That being said, I've not seen any MMO yet that does a really good job of introducing new players to what their various stats are and what they do so that they can make good gear decisions and learn to group. I would love to see part of a tutorial where you'd have a quest that requires a rogue to backstab, or where you get pwnd by an mob and then you go back and a NPC gives you a huge Crit buff, or a mage has to moderate his aggro and not pull it off a tank pet companion in order to succeed.
    Gear already has numerical values, allowing me to see it in a more straight forward way doesn't change anything.

    Your second paragraph has nothing to do with ilvl.

  4. #4
    General of Telara Thulium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phyraxian View Post
    Gear already has numerical values, allowing me to see it in a more straight forward way doesn't change anything. .
    Item level often has nothing to do with a piece of equipment's effectiveness for your class.

    Gear based on the stats/bonuses you want, not by item level or quality.

    E.g. If you are far below the requisite hit quantity for an encounter, a blue with a nice chunk of hit may be better than an epic with no hit. Etc.
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    Shield of Telara KnirpsLyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thulium View Post
    Item level often has nothing to do with a piece of equipment's effectiveness for your class.

    Gear based on the stats/bonuses you want, not by item level or quality.

    E.g. If you are far below the requisite hit quantity for an encounter, a blue with a nice chunk of hit may be better than an epic with no hit. Etc.
    This.

    It is NOT more straight forward to see ilvl, and if anything creates more confusion because it's just another number thrown in that doesn't always mean a damn thing. People will stop looking at stats, and start lookiing at ilvl, leading more people to roll on things clearly not better/not even for their role.

  6. #6
    General of Telara phyraxian's Avatar
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    Gear based on the stats I need? I never thought of that, thank you, consider me educated.

    How is having more information a bad thing?

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    Ascendant TheDrizzle404's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phyraxian View Post
    Gear based on the stats I need? I never thought of that, thank you, consider me educated.

    How is having more information a bad thing?
    explain how its more information, and how it brings anything positive to the table.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phyraxian View Post
    Can we get ilvl on gear? Being the relatively new player that I am, trying to learn the difference between dungeon gear and raid gear plus crafted/quest/drops/planar gear is daunting, and not immediately obvious.

    I know I can look at stats, but that doesn't really tell me where it stands against other gear or where it comes from.
    My point is that if you need to rely on some artifical score to understand what gear is better for you .... because the stats aren't enough, then you don't understand your stats. Don't ask for a dumb gear score because it is not the be all and end all of gear choice .... learn your stats better, and if you are having problems with that as a new player, Trion should do a better job educating you in the early stage of the game.

    It is bad because it becomes a substitute for learning the game and an artifical screen and hurdle for progessing to higher level tiers of play (which already exists in other forms)

  9. #9
    Soulwalker
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    Bad idea. iLevel visible to the players in World of Warcraft led to the creation of GearScore. That wasn't the bad thing, though...

    The bad thing was when players started to use this score to tell how much skill players had, and that led to horrible encounters. I don't doubt that the developers of rift use iLevel internally to determine what gear goes where, but in my experience, it's a bad idea to ever give a player access to this data.

  10. #10
    Ascendant TheDrizzle404's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTailedFox View Post
    Bad idea. iLevel visible to the players in World of Warcraft led to the creation of GearScore. That wasn't the bad thing, though...

    The bad thing was when players started to use this score to tell how much skill players had, and that led to horrible encounters. I don't doubt that the developers of rift use iLevel internally to determine what gear goes where, but in my experience, it's a bad idea to ever give a player access to this data.
    this, and it also led to people demanding players in their pug severely outgear the raid they were heading to.

  11. #11
    Soulwalker
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    Oh, that was also a pain in the backside.

    For those that don't play WoW, a little example. Eng-game raid, "Icecrown Citadel". Over time, they added an artificial buff to the instance that increased every 2 weeks or so. Started at 5% extra Damage & Healing, ended at 30% (where it remains to this day).

    When the buff was at 20%, players asked for a GearScore of 2800.

    When the buff was at 30%, players asked for a GearScore of 2900.

    This is exactly why the developers should never show visible iLevels.

  12. #12
    Rift Disciple Raventree's Avatar
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    No. Just no.
    As soon as you add iLvl to the game you get the same thing that you have in WoW and that is an iLvl requirement for everything. All it does is add a convenient tool for the kiddies who think they are elite to make it difficult for other players to advance. A lot of the requirements I would see in WoW were so high that to do the dungeon you had to already have all of the gear you could get there, making it pointless. The players that actually needed the drops were not allowed to do the run because their iLvl wasn't high enough.
    Ridiculous. I say we are better off without it.

  13. #13
    Plane Walker
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    Lolz all you educated hardcores
    The guy is asking for cataclysm item level which by the way can be used as instance join criteria
    Question is if Rift gear and their use can have such a number

  14. #14
    Plane Touched yshara's Avatar
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    The problem with a "Cataclysm iLvl" for joining dungeons is that people will equip any old gear just to meet the item level requirement. This was common at the launch of Cataclysm, people were wearing totally inappropriate gear just because it had a higher item level.

    Rift already implements a requirement for joining dungeons based on the necessary stats for your class, which is a far better solution.
    Last edited by yshara; 08-10-2011 at 12:12 AM.

  15. #15
    Plane Touched yshara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phyraxian View Post
    I know I can look at stats, but that doesn't really tell me where it stands against other gear
    Yes, it does. The gear with the better stats is, um, better

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