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Thread: [Suggestion] Free For All Shard - Trion Please Read

  1. #1
    Shield of Telara Nerus's Avatar
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    Default [Suggestion] Free For All Shard - Trion Please Read

    Please read this before responding, as there is a good your initial reaction and questions may be addressed.

    What is a Free For All Shard? What is the Suggestion?

    -I am suggesting a server in which all of the towns outside the starting zones are neutral protected zones, in which players can group up with or kill anyone regardless of faction. Essentially players would be able to flag themselves as hostile to anyone, or to everyone, or as neutral or friendly to anyone who isn't flagged hostile to them. This could be handled in a variety of ways.

    Why should there FFA Shards?

    -First and Foremost Free for All servers would attract PvP players from other games and help maintain PvPers in this game. It would encourage mature and Hardcore PvPers to give Rift a try and encourage many of those who left to give Rift a second chance. In short, it would significantly increase and help maintain Trion's customer base, in addition to generating good will with the PvP community.

    -A Free For All shard would provide alternative gameplay for PvPers who are put off by Red Team vs Blue Team mechanics. It would provide a server where PvP had consequences and where the PvP rules would be established and enforced by the players themselves, where no one could act with complete impunity simply because of the faction they belong to.

    -It would provide a server where guilds could go to war and forge alliances, as well as a place where PvP would not be hard to come by due to only being able to engage the other faction.

    -It would allow Hardcore PvPers (who are rather Jaded with this game) to actually get some hardcore PvP action.

    -It would appeal to gamers who resent being told who they can and can't kill, as well as players who enjoy the experience of not being faction safe or having relative safe zones on one side of a map.

    -It would provide a place for players interested in PvP to transfer their characters, whether their alts or their mains, to participate in truly dynamic and readily available world PvP with anyone at any time. Players who did not enjoy such an experience could always transfer off. In short, there is no reason that mature and hardcore PvPers should be denied the option to play on such a server.


    Addressing Concerns
    There would be no reason to roll on such a server
    This concern is invalid because many mature and hardcore PvPers would relish the chance to play on a server where PvP had actual consequences within the community and where no one had faction immunity.

    It would be anarchy
    Not that anarchy is a bad thing, but games with open world PvP show time and time again that players and guilds often establish and enforce their own PvP rules. They are rules decided upon by players and enforced by players.

    It would be a griefers paradise
    Griefers would certainly roll on such a server, but so would mature PvPers, and a quick critical examination reveals that this same contention could be raised against all PvP servers, and against standard PvP servers due to the fact that griefers within your faction can act with complete impunity and there is nothing you can do but ignore them.

    It wouldn't work
    It has worked in many games, and it could easily work in this one as well.

    I'd prefer FFA content to only be in instances and controlled areas
    Then don't roll on an FFA server if they are added.

    Ect

    Multiple Server Types
    -Some hardcore PvPers prefer loot rules that allow players to be looted, but such loot rules would also be extremely unpopular with a lot of people interested in Free For All PvP. If there were multiple FFA servers, then FFA-Hardcore servers could have such looting rules while standard FFA servers kept standard looting rules. This way the ultra hardcore PvPers would have a server unto themselves.
    Last edited by Nerus; 06-16-2011 at 10:20 PM. Reason: Addendum

  2. #2
    Shield of Telara Nerus's Avatar
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    Additional concern address
    Adding such a server would be impossible because it's beyond Trion's programming skill and or too much work, or it's just not worth it
    I think we should let Trion decide whether any of that's true or not.

    But honestly the potential of reversing the PvP exodus and building lasting good will with the starved and jaded MMO PvP market seems like a good move to me. The notion that PvPers don't matter is ill informed, I say.

  3. #3
    Shield of Telara Nerus's Avatar
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    Request Transfer to PvP forums if this location is inappropriate for such suggestions.

  4. #4
    Shield of Telara Nerus's Avatar
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    Just a pre-emptive after a quote on another thread. Judging this suggestion by failed PvP games with terrible graphics, clunky combat, zero marketing, and terrible mechanics isn't a good argument against the ideas presented here.

  5. #5
    Champion
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    I agree. Also, you would have to remove the "zone in" features from dungeons to help promote real world travel/interaction rather than playing like its a lobby game.

    To make it fair all they would have to do is implement a karma system (negative type points gained for killing unwilling people, such as someone 10+ levels below you who wouldn't bother trying to fight back) or make you immune to pvping people outside your pvp bracket.
    A little reading comprehension goes a long way.

  6. #6
    Shield of Telara Nerus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malbojia View Post
    I agree. Also, you would have to remove the "zone in" features from dungeons to help promote real world travel/interaction rather than playing like its a lobby game.

    To make it fair all they would have to do is implement a karma system (negative type points gained for killing unwilling people, such as someone 10+ levels below you who wouldn't bother trying to fight back) or make you immune to pvping people outside your pvp bracket.
    I think those are good ideas, Karma worked pretty well in some of the older MMO's too.

    I remember this one where players with high Karma could become Champions with a shield next to their name while players with low Karma would have red names, so gankers would be easily spottable and on everyone's watch out or kill list. Was that UO? I can't quite remember, it was a long time ago.

  7. #7
    Prophet of Telara Villaintine's Avatar
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    I noticed you mentioned consequences several times, what did you have in mind? Also, while I'm not opposed to there being such a server type as choices are most always a good thing, I can't imagine a server such as this prospering. That being said, as there are already several very low pop servers I don't imagine this would be any different than those.

    It's not that it's a poor idea, this is just a poor game to implement it in- Rift is anything but hardcore for any style of player. It has a lot of polish compared to true PvP MMOs such as Darkfall and Mortal Online but PvP is an absolute afterthought in this game and from what I have seen on PvP and PvE servers alike is that players often times won't bother to engage in even their preferred style of gameplay if they aren't rewarded for it and another style is.

    It would be nice to have a good MMO for PvP but MMORPGs will always be subpar for PvP as they are burdened with with the "RPG" part in stat-based progression which creates an inherent imbalance and commonly results in required grinds just to reach equal footing with other players.
    "You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer." -Frank Zappa

  8. #8
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerus View Post
    Please read this before responding, as there is a good your initial reaction and questions may be addressed.

    What is a Free For All Shard? What is the Suggestion?

    -I am suggesting a server in which all of the towns outside the starting zones are neutral protected zones, in which players can group up with or kill anyone regardless of faction. Essentially players would be able to flag themselves as hostile to anyone, or to everyone, or as neutral or friendly to anyone who isn't flagged hostile to them. This could be handled in a variety of ways.

    Why should there FFA Shards?

    -First and Foremost Free for All servers would attract PvP players from other games and help maintain PvPers in this game. It would encourage mature and Hardcore PvPers to give Rift a try and encourage many of those who left to give Rift a second chance. In short, it would significantly increase and help maintain Trion's customer base, in addition to generating good will with the PvP community.

    -A Free For All shard would provide alternative gameplay for PvPers who are put off by Red Team vs Blue Team mechanics. It would provide a server where PvP had consequences and where the PvP rules would be established and enforced by the players themselves, where no one could act with complete impunity simply because of the faction they belong to.

    -It would provide a server where guilds could go to war and forge alliances, as well as a place where PvP would not be hard to come by due to only being able to engage the other faction.

    -It would allow Hardcore PvPers (who are rather Jaded with this game) to actually get some hardcore PvP action.

    -It would appeal to gamers who resent being told who they can and can't kill, as well as players who enjoy the experience of not being faction safe or having relative safe zones on one side of a map.

    -It would provide a place for players interested in PvP to transfer their characters, whether their alts or their mains, to participate in truly dynamic and readily available world PvP with anyone at any time. Players who did not enjoy such an experience could always transfer off. In short, there is no reason that mature and hardcore PvPers should be denied the option to play on such a server.


    Addressing Concerns

    This concern is invalid because many mature and hardcore PvPers would relish the chance to play on a server where PvP had actual consequences within the community and where no one had faction immunity.


    Not that anarchy is a bad thing, but games with open world PvP show time and time again that players and guilds often establish and enforce their own PvP rules. They are rules decided upon by players and enforced by players.


    Griefers would certainly roll on such a server, but so would mature PvPers, and a quick critical examination reveals that this same contention could be raised against all PvP servers, and against standard PvP servers due to the fact that griefers within your faction can act with complete impunity and there is nothing you can do but ignore them.


    It has worked in many games, and it could easily work in this one as well.


    Then don't roll on an FFA server if they are added.

    Ect

    Multiple Server Types
    -Some hardcore PvPers prefer loot rules that allow players to be looted, but such loot rules would also be extremely unpopular with a lot of people interested in Free For All PvP. If there were multiple FFA servers, then FFA-Hardcore servers could have such looting rules while standard FFA servers kept standard looting rules. This way the ultra hardcore PvPers would have a server unto themselves.
    FFA is an awsome idea. indeed those of us that have experience with open world pvp can fully understand the political complexity a FFA server would offer, i would re-sub immediately for something like this, and surely there must be many more like us.

  9. #9
    Rift Disciple Zizzu^'s Avatar
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    Could fix the open world PvP.

    Or maybe Trion can make a zone where factions did not matter and let everyone kill everyone.

  10. #10
    Soulwalker
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    This would be really, really cool.

  11. #11
    Shield of Telara Nerus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Villaintine View Post
    I noticed you mentioned consequences several times, what did you have in mind?
    In FFA MMO's or on an FFA Server people can't get away with being a prick just because they belong to the same faction. You can make friends or enemies with anyone, regardless of faction.

  12. #12
    Soulwalker
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    GoGO Free For All Shard........Karma system a must..... after 5 kills when the player does not fight back u turn red and u will be killed by any npc or player and they will not get penalize for it then when the red player dies hes back to normal..... more pvps more deaths to turn normal........10 pvps 2 deaths to turn normal 15 3 deaths so on and so on....or maybe sum quest to clean ur soul........and maybe the red player will lose exp or maybe drop a item when hes red and dies.........they should also add castles to the main town areas that are owed by npc at first and u will have to siege the castle to win it from the npc ........ sieges happen every 2 weeks..... and whatever guild owes the castle u get bonuses like taxes on items sold in ur area.........maybe special ruins....scrolls to take u to ur castle from anywhere....this will give guilds bragging rights and start alliances and conflict at the same time..............FFAS FTW

  13. #13
    Shield of Telara Nerus's Avatar
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    There are lots of good ways Karma could be handled, I always favored a purely aesthetic tag like red names or icons next to their names personally so that players know the character of the person they're dealing with at a glance, accompanied by changes in how one gains and loses karma according to who they're dealing with.

    For example, "virtuous deeds" like charity ect could gain karma while "villainous deeds" like ganking lowbies could lose it creating a slippery but not insurmountable slope if it were harder to gain than lose, without any particular arm twisting by the game, but instead by the player community.

  14. #14
    Soulwalker
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    I really like this idea. It would certainly guarantee extended subscription time for me.

  15. #15
    Rift Disciple
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    Default challenge ladder

    I consider PVP to be a side of a game where people can compete against each other.

    I know WOW had the arena idea and I think it worked for some.

    What about the idea of having a challenge ladder style of competition similar to the challenge ladders in sports like tennis for example? Where you do win a position.

    I just wonder how many people really are interested in having their game constantly interrupted by other players, who may be several levels above them.

    Especially if they are questing or doing and activity which they are really focussed on.

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