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Thread: Long post, Trion please read.

  1. #1
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    Default Long post, Trion please read.

    Okay, so here is the problem.

    1: Players go to the pvp forums and say it's broken.
    2: Players go to the pve forums and say it's broken.
    3: Players say everything is unbalanced and too hard.
    4: Players who do none of the above say it's all too easy.

    I'm not going to propose I know what's going on inside everybody's head, but here is what I see.

    Players solo warfront queues as DPS only.
    Players try to solo PvE content as DPS only.
    Everybody whines like it's the game's fault.

    Here is what I am deducing from this: Players #1-3 are playing the game, and the genre entirely, incorrectly.

    I'm a gamer from the 1990's-2K's generation, and I remember the days when PvP meant killing people... and that's it. There were days when in a PvP setting, you'd commonly (if not always) see match descriptions like "deathmatch". You all probably remember the good old games like Unreal Tournament, Rainbow Six, Quake, etc.

    Here is the thing - A lot of these players in my generation seem to be having trouble evolving from the "deathmatch" mentality into the "utility PvP" mentality. Proof behind this is how commonly within just the past week I start a "Wow, Dominator spells are ridiculous" conversation, and I'm literally met with one of two responses 100% of the time: (1) "Interesting, I never even bothered trying that soul", or (2) "wtf r u noob dominotor does s*** damaeg". And this is the kind of thing the new generation is learning from, which means the "days of deathmatch mentality" is surviving like a genocidal alien parasite.

    This is honestly the root of all of the game's problems. Too many players are rolling into online RPG games while having absolutely no understanding or appreciation for roles like healing, crowd control, evasion, and yes, even tanking. All of you know this is true, because if it wasn't then why are DPS queues in all games so horrifically long?

    Trion, you can fix this. And here is how.

    When you enlist in the military, your task is to become a solider. If any of you have ever enlisted, and ever been put through drills with team-based objectives, you know how important what I'm talking about it. And if you're one of those soldiers who's so darn good at everything that you can win wars, then I congratulate you. The country wishes everybody was like you. But my point here is that you can be sure the military puts all of its soldiers through a buttload and a half of boot camp, training, and testing until they can be completely positive the guy knows and understands the importance and value of everything else other than just shooting people. And it's not a choice - You either go through the training or you ****.

    Trion, all you need to do is force players to go through a pre-tutorial that forces them to take quests with objectives like "Transmogify elite mobs to reach the chest in the back of the cave", or "Use heals to keep the captain NPC alive while he battles the enemy". Allowing players to choose their class first is a bad idea because of course all the PvP fanatics are going to pick rogues, having no clue how equally important to the game clerics, warriors, and mages are. The game already describes what each class does, but nowhere does it make it obvious to the new or uninformed player that this isn't a deathmatch game, it's a team-based objective game. I guarantee you that as soon as any player actually experiences how well the game works when all of its tools are utilized, you will see a significant decrease in the insane amounts of "QQ everything is broken".

    *Edit* Also, if you do manage to fix this, just imagine how much more difficult you can make things like PvE boss fights, because if you fix this, then the only complaints you'd likely be getting are the "It's too easy" ones. Then gamers worldwide can not only become better at the game, but enjoy more challenging content.
    Last edited by Xandaroth; 06-09-2011 at 08:51 PM.

  2. #2
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    Players mainly DPS being that's what they want to do.
    Players that want to Tank, Heal or Support play those roles.
    That doesn't mean they are playing the game incorrectly. They are playing the game they way they want to.
    People don't need a silly trainer to find appreciation for a class they know darn well what it does.

    Complaining is a part of every MMO. The best way to deal with the complainers is to ignore them. Trion is fully capable of deciding what's a legitimate gripe and what's just someone whining because they lost.

    As far as PVPers all choosing rogue, that's just a fallacy. They'll pick whatever they enjoy playing the most for whatever reason.

    You should seriously care less about what others are doing in PvP and do what you want to.

    If you are having fun in a game, you are not doing it wrong.
    If you are playing a game that isn't fun for you...then YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG!

  3. #3
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    You sound like you're probably one of the game's experienced players who queues with guildies and doesn't really notice the fact that the ratio of DPS versus tanks and healers in general is drastically different. The queues don't just magically decide to make DPS wait longer. And as a frequenter of pugs, both in PvE and PvP, I'm exposed to proof of my post on a daily basis.

    If you're so good at the game that you honestly don't even see the things I'm talking about, then great. You're awesome, and you probably understand and appreciate all the things that all of the game's subscribers need to.

    Which is my point.

    You may not need to be trained to be that good. But you aren't the majority of the game's subscriber base. And unfortunately for gamers like myself, you don't land in my parties - everybody else does.
    Last edited by Xandaroth; 06-09-2011 at 09:07 PM.

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    Also, I'll tell you what.

    If you can spend one single day Queuing for warfronts and random dungeons by yourself, and provide proof you can actually have perfect games all day where everybody heals, CCs, tanks, disables, buffs, and plays around team-based objectives without a single experience like what I described above, I will level up a character on your server just to give you 50 plat.

    Also, Queue for randoms as DPS. I'm sure your queues will be fast, since plenty of people tank and heal, according to you.

  5. #5
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    I Think People DPS Because Tanking Is Really Intense With Heals Coming In Second. I Know I Like DPS Because I Smash 4-6 Buttons And Its Like SNES Again.
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    You made assumptions about me that simply are not true. I am perfectly aware of the woes of DPS queuing for instances. For you information I played a Purely DPS in other games and have dealt with the issue. You have entirely missed the point of my statement. Most people play DPS only because that is what they want to do. Adding silly tutorials isn't going to change that. Every Calling in the game can Tank, Heal or both. Trion put it into the players hands to decide, and guess what. Most people still don't want to tank and heal. Some games have resorted to open bribery to get players to play unwanted roles and it still hasn't fixed the issues.

    If they really want to fix the issue they have to either make tanking and healing more enjoyable to the "I only want to dps crowd" or move away from the Holy Trinity style of gameplay. They aren't going to make many of those who don't currently like to tank or heal in the current system to magically like it Not enough to make the kind of difference to balance the parties for a 5 man group.

    This again lead right back into, Everyone is going to play the way they want to, if someone decides it's more fun to role a tank or healer then sit and wait in a Queue for hours as DPS the more power to them. I'm certainly not going to force anyone to do it if they don't want to, and neither is Trion.
    Last edited by RengarA; 06-09-2011 at 09:23 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xandaroth View Post
    Also, I'll tell you what.

    If you can spend one single day Queuing for warfronts and random dungeons by yourself, and provide proof you can actually have perfect games all day where everybody heals, CCs, tanks, disables, buffs, and plays around team-based objectives without a single experience like what I described above, I will level up a character on your server just to give you 50 plat.

    Also, Queue for randoms as DPS. I'm sure your queues will be fast, since plenty of people tank and heal, according to you.
    Of course that's not going to happen, you are asking for the Perfect Utopia of gaming. The world doesn't work like. that That's one of the reasons outside the social aspect you join a guild.
    Last edited by RengarA; 06-09-2011 at 09:23 PM.

  8. #8
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    Sang, in all seriousness, I'm willing to bet you'd be an awesome tank or healer if you simply had the right opportunity and supportive enough of an environment to figure it out and learn how to make it work just as easy for you.

    But that's the problem, you can't expect to have that support and patience from people unless you're already guilded and they're really good friends already. Sang is exactly right. It is intense, and I bet tons of people give up on it because of they make a mistake, they practically get boo'ed off the game.

    So, Trion, make a tutorial section of the game where people can learn what to do in an environment that is supportive and independent of other people. I was a caster for 5 years in my MMO career. I tried tanking and was boo'ed out of a guild... 3 years later I'm main tanking and raid leading hard modes, and it was all because one guild picked me up and supported me. If people have the tools, they will use them - Nobody is going to stay with a non-DPS role if they get discouraged during the learning process, and the best way to fix that is to get the learning process out of the way before exposing them to live action with other people.
    Last edited by Xandaroth; 06-09-2011 at 09:24 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by RengarA View Post
    Of course that's not going to happen, you are asking for the Perfect Utopia of gaming. The world doesn't work like. that That's one of the reasons outside the social aspect you join a guild.
    I'm pretty sure a "Perfect Utopia of Gaming" is precisely what every single person in the game development industry has wet dreams about creating. My point here is this suggestion has a high potential to bring Rift one more step closer to it, and why I sincerely hope Trion reads this. At least in my opinion.

    And I think everybody here can agree they would love to play a perfect utopia of gaming. I know I would.
    Last edited by Xandaroth; 06-09-2011 at 09:28 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xandaroth View Post
    Sang, in all seriousness, I'm willing to bet you'd be an awesome tank or healer if you simply had the right opportunity and supportive enough of an environment to figure it out and learn how to make it work just as easy for you.

    But that's the problem, you can't expect to have that support and patience from people unless you're already guilded and they're really good friends already. Sang is exactly right. It is intense, and I bet tons of people give up on it because of they make a mistake, they practically get boo'ed off the game.

    So, Trion, make a tutorial section of the game where people can learn what to do in an environment that is supportive and independent of other people. I was a caster for 5 years in my MMO career. I tried tanking and was boo'ed out of a guild... 3 years later I'm main tanking and raid leading hard modes, and it was all because one guild picked me up and supported me. If people have the tools, they will use them - Nobody is going to stay with a non-DPS role if they get discouraged during the learning process, and the best way to fix that is to get the learning process out of the way before exposing them to live action with other people.
    Yeah People Forgetting Its A Game And Yelling At Tanks For Beings "Noobs" Or "Not Having The Best Gear That Would Contradict Being In The Instance In The First Place As A Tank" Ive Seen It And Lived It.
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  11. #11
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    Default Tanking is fun

    Tanking is fun - I have not done a heap of it - just some on a pally and warrior alt in wow, and now a bit on my cleric in rift.

    At present I am happy to tank for guildies but I find it intimidating to tank for randoms. I read up and try things out, but really don't want to face the unpleasant criticisms that you can cop from some of the gaming community.

    I play the game for fun, not to get rubbished by some tactless person who could not care a less about how you feel.

  12. #12
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    I feel your pain, my friend. If it's a role you think you'd like to get better at though, I wouldn't give up, because something I discovered is that those kinds of people are probably the people you're going to avoid for plenty of other reasons as well.

    And tanking actually is really, really fun once you figure it out. I don't spend a day on this game not wondering if I regret not making a warrior instead of a mage. Lol
    Last edited by Xandaroth; 06-09-2011 at 09:36 PM.

  13. #13
    Champion of Telara Dereth's Avatar
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    Tanks are vital. Good tanks are a rare and valuable asset.

    It also comes with the most burden in groups. If the group wipes, 9 times out of 10 the tank gets blamed. DPS starts too early? Tank should have got it. Healer's watching TV? Tank doesn't have enough mitigation.

    Don't give up mate. Good players know how much work tanking is, and are often appreciate of the effort involved.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xandaroth View Post

    4: Players who do none of the above say it's all too easy.
    Easy & quite enjoyable i must say ! There's always people who complain about absolutely everything, it's their lifestyle... Can't change them, so just ignore them.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dereth View Post
    Tanks are vital. Good tanks are a rare and valuable asset.
    On that note, Trion, can you also please give mages a tank soul

    It's perfectly reasonable for a mage to use... um... arcane... kinetic force life shields or, something, to have mitigation. Clerics can do it, dagnammit!

    And then Xan won't have to reroll

    *Edit* this post is a trolling, relax all you balance ragers. Main thread topic still applies :P
    Last edited by Xandaroth; 06-09-2011 at 09:43 PM.

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