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Thread: Holy Paladin (main heals?)

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default Holy Paladin (main heals?)

    My brother and I were discussing Rift and the traditional MMO “Holy Trinity” (Healer/Tank/DPS) and how those roles are routinely filled by the best Healer (Cleric), the best Tank (Warrior), and the best DPS (Mage/Rogue). For veterans of traditional MMOs, this is comfortable. It’s what we’re used to. It’s what we expect. Has Trion broken that mold? If so, we veteran players must consider the ramifications of such a trespass. For us, after 13+ years of MMO typecasting (and 48 mins of non-anytime cell phone use) we think it’s great. The main classes can nicely swap between the holy trinity roles, in order to fit the party makeup…all except one. The Warrior

    Suggestion: Allow the Paladin soul to main heal instances.

    Mechanic: Like the Justicar Miens of Leadership and Honor, allow for a buff which significantly improves healing, while drastically reducing tank abilities and one which does the reverse.
    The Reaver, Void Knight, and Warlord souls provide Warriors considerable viability when constructing solid Defensive builds; without losing the Paladin soul as a option.

    Alternatively, the Paladin soul can be reconstructed into a plate wearing healer soul and the 3 aforementioned souls can provide the defense.

    Thougths?

  2. #2
    Ascendant Kevyne's Avatar
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    One healing class missing in RIFT -- a plate healer.

    Be it a Holy paladin from WoW; Templar from EQ2 or Cleric from DDO...it's missing in RIFT.

    But they borked paladins to ensure they'll never be Holy paladins in RIFT (paladins in RIFT don't use mana...really???).

    So Templar will do.
    Last edited by Kevyne; 06-09-2011 at 12:12 AM.

  3. #3
    Shadowlander
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    Has there been any indication that that might change?
    It doesn't fit the Rift Soul theme, seeing that there's even one for Rogues.

  4. #4
    Champion of Telara Dereth's Avatar
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    There are four general roles in Rift

    DPS
    Heal
    Tank
    Support

    Warriors already have 3 of the 4.
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    Prophet of Telara Schall's Avatar
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    No thanks.
    Gestalt - Dayblind <PvP> - Defiant

  6. #6
    Rift Disciple
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    I don't like this idea. I don't think Rift needs to be like all other games in terms of having a plate healer. Many people, myself included, have already rolled heavily into Paladin to serve as a primary tank. What you be displaying the roles of many players in order to introduce a holy paladin.

  7. #7
    Sez
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    Please stop trying to get back into the box.

    Keep thinking, but do it outside the box.
    Sez is now Zes on Dayblind

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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dereth View Post
    There are four general roles in Rift

    DPS
    Heal
    Tank
    Support

    Warriors already have 3 of the 4.
    What is the support role? Warlord? Are you serious? Warrior has 2 roles. Every BM buff except enraged champion gets overwritten by more powerful archon buffs, and the warlords calls are the exact same as the bard / archon spells. Not to mention the warlord is a TANK tree. Support roles should be SUPPORT roles, not a 3rd choice tank role.

    Every class can heal other players except warriors. It may not be main healing, but its healing. Healing + buffs / CC = support, something that the warlord tree IS NOT.
    Nimec, Seastone

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    Prophet of Telara Schall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nimec View Post
    What is the support role? Warlord? Are you serious? Warrior has 2 roles. Every BM buff except enraged champion gets overwritten by more powerful archon buffs, and the warlords calls are the exact same as the bard / archon spells. Not to mention the warlord is a TANK tree. Support roles should be SUPPORT roles, not a 3rd choice tank role.

    Every class can heal other players except warriors. It may not be main healing, but its healing. Healing + buffs / CC = support, something that the warlord tree IS NOT.
    Warlord is support as well as tank. Are you playing the same game?
    Gestalt - Dayblind <PvP> - Defiant

  10. #10
    Plane Touched
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    Well considering that currently:

    Cleric:
    Tank
    MDPS/RDPS
    Heal
    Support (In the form of DPS/Heals rather than an actual support soul)

    Rogue:
    Tank
    MDPS/RDPS
    Support (In the form of Support/Heals)

    Mage:
    RDPS
    Healer
    Support (In the form of Support/Damage)

    Warrior:
    Tank
    MDPS
    Support (In the form of Tank/Support)

    As you can see all classes currently fulfil 3/4 possible roles with exception of Clerics since their easy to obtain offheals allows them to make "Support" builds.

    If Warriors got another Role, Mages and Rogues would be wanting their 4th role aswell (Never mind my feelings about Warriors only being able to queue at tank or support and their distinct lack of ranged DPS for boss fights that are made considerably more annoying with the presence of MDPS)

    That and the fact that all the people currently using Paladin as a tank soul would get annoyed because they would have to pick a soul that they did not want to replace it (No other soul gives as much block orientated defence or mechanics) including myself...

    It also doesn't make much sense for a paladin to be a healing soul (Outside of people just coming from WoW where Paladins are constantly healing others in their heal and DPS specs and tend to fluxtuate as the best healer class ingame) since all the healing that a Paladin gets is a 10 minute self only heal and a heal on block passive. They use divine power to boost their defences, they do not use it to be a healer.

    Edit: Just remembered about Life's Rapture, but my point still stands.
    Last edited by Taril; 06-09-2011 at 09:45 AM.
    Sonora - 50 Rogue - 8 Bladedancer/51 Riftstalker/7 Ranger - All round tank build.
    Teralia - 50 Warrior - 22 Reaver/24 Warlord/20 Paladin - A fun to play AoE threat build.
    Karis - 46 Mage - 24 Chloromancer/27 Pyromancer/10 Warlock - A high burst support heal PvP/Solo build.
    Tarille - 50 Cleric - 5 Templar/27 Warden/34 Sentinel - A powerful AoE healing PvP build.

  11. #11
    Champion of Telara Dereth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nimec View Post
    What is the support role? Warlord? Are you serious? Warrior has 2 roles. Every BM buff except enraged champion gets overwritten by more powerful archon buffs, and the warlords calls are the exact same as the bard / archon spells. Not to mention the warlord is a TANK tree. Support roles should be SUPPORT roles, not a 3rd choice tank role.

    Every class can heal other players except warriors. It may not be main healing, but its healing. Healing + buffs / CC = support, something that the warlord tree IS NOT.
    Yes, Warlord is a support role.

    If you'd like to complain about support buffs not stacking, then I might see that as valid. Support roles include buffs/debuffs, and can also include dps (archon), heals (bard), or off-tanking (warlord).

    It's an intricate system.
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  12. #12
    Rift Disciple Numtini's Avatar
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    I suspect the original concept was that every class would have 3 of the 4 roles:

    War: Tank, DPS, Support
    Mage: DPS, Heal, Support
    Cleric: Heal, DPS, Tank
    Rogue: DPS, Tank, Support

    But something funny happened on the way to the forum and cleric heal/dps builds end up as a support class and warlord doesn't. (Or at least my 31 point warlord build concentrating on buffs won't let me queue as support.) I suspect this is because buffs alone don't really do as much "support" as a secondary healer does.

    Turning paladin (or warlord) more towards a hybrid healer would be a better option for a third warrior than the pure buff thing is.

  13. #13
    Prophet of Telara Schall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Numtini View Post
    But something funny happened on the way to the forum
    I appreciate this.

    However, I simply disagree. Warrior does not need a healing tree. Does warlord needs its ability to "support" changed or reshuffled? Maybe. Warlord was intended to be a support soul, providing buffs and debuffs in the form of calls and auras with some longer CD superbuffs, one of which essentially being a group/raid heal. It ended up being capable of main tanking as well. While all tanking souls provide some level of support, none so much as warlord.

    Paladin has its place, abilities and skills based largely around blocking, and to change it so much would need something to replace it.

    I just don't see why this kind of change is necessary, given all the information already posted.
    Gestalt - Dayblind <PvP> - Defiant

  14. #14
    Shadowlander
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    Default Interesting responses, all...

    however, Warrior support is DPS, so the Class effectively only fills 2 roles. No?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arishem View Post
    however, Warrior support is DPS, so the Class effectively only fills 2 roles. No?
    The warrior supports with serious stat increasing buffs. DPS support is simply DPS and not vital support. The warrior does have three separate roles in three separate "spheres".
    The Trinity is unholy! Down with the Trinity!
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