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Thread: Soul specialization incentive

  1. #1
    Shield of Telara Kayden Fox's Avatar
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    Default Soul specialization incentive

    Right now, if you spend zero points in MM or 51, you get rank 10 Swift Shot that does ~100 damage.
    Ranks of skills are tied to character level.

    Some souls have skills that are "Increases X by Y for every point over z." If that were sufficient, we'd see a lot more "pure" builds.

    As is, there is NO reason to go 51 points into any but a handful of souls. 31 points nets you 85% of the root abilities and all the good branch skills. Putting in another 20 points gets you 3 more root abilities that are usually lack luster and the remaining branch skills that are pretty much garbage.

    How about for every 5/10 points you put in a soul, you unlock a new rank for its abilities? This could work out a few different ways.

    Continuing with Marksmen, with 0 points in the soul, you have rank 10 Swift Shot that does 100 damage. With 5 points in, you get rank 11 that does 105.
    10 points - 110
    15 points - 115
    20 points - 120
    25 points - 125
    30 points - 130
    ...
    ...
    50 points - 150
    51 points - 160/165/170 whatever a good incentive to go pure would be.

    If you look at the DPS souls, all the best branch skills are within the first 3/4 tiers. If you put 15 points into Blade Dancer, Night Blade, and Assassin, you have almost all the best passive buffs in the whole calling with 16 points left to spend. You're actually punished for specializing in a soul because there are several undesirable branch skills and severely diminishing returns on root skills for points invested over 26-28.

    Now, a 60% boost in damage might be a bit excessive at face value, but if you've ever parsed a 51 point MM, you'd know the soul is pretty much garbage at 51 points. A NB/BD/Sin hybrid can parse over 1k on a dummy while a 51mm might hit 800 with the same gear.

    Maybe the increases could start at 15, 20, or 31 points in the soul. At 31 points in MM, you unlock Swift Shot Rank 11, 105 damage. 36 points gets you rank 12, 110 damage. 41 is rank 13, 115 damage. 46 -> 14 -> 120. 51 points would get you something like rank 15, 130 damage.
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  2. #2
    Champion Ayenn's Avatar
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    I like the incentive terhe already is for maxing souls.
    • the 51 ability
    • having that soul be more effective

    What you are asking for can either be called a request to OP or just some kind of handout. these types of incentives are not needed. Sorry.
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  3. #3
    Soulwalker Delofasht's Avatar
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    Default 51 Points

    What the Original Poster is saying is that the majority of 51 point pure trees don't get as powerful as any hybrid build. This is for the most part true in my opinion, and I would like to see more incentive to dump more than 31 points in a tree as well, not to make it overpowered by any means, but to give it just as much viability as the hybrids. Linked to a players skill would be nice though, a variety of reactive abilities you could only get by going 51 points could be quite nice, and reactive in such a way that hitting it as soon as it comes up isn't always best, maybe it charges up the longer you wait to push it there by doing a lot more damage, with it's duration being like 5 seconds.

    Free Passive damage bonuses for going 51 points seems bad however, most passive bonuses are really quite boring, especially at the max level where you aren't pushing to get stronger from the choices anymore.

    - Del

  4. #4
    Champion Ayenn's Avatar
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    This could be something included in a lateral advancement system. I still say do not futz with the trees as they are. People already scream about balance problems. Adding these kinds of things directly into the soul trees will cause them to have absolute frothing at the mouth caniptions.
    The Trinity is unholy! Down with the Trinity!
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  5. #5
    Shield of Telara Kayden Fox's Avatar
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    How many 51 point abilities are worth getting? The MM 51 is Sniper Pedestal with a 30% boost to damage. On paper, that sounds amazing, however for one... the MM is a mobility soul. This skill requires you stand still... utterly moronic. The 15 second "get back on it" buff is a good addition, however, even if you stand in the the whole time, a 51pt MM is easily out dps'd by almost any hybrid soul.

    The soul is more effective? How so? At what? Look at the Rift Stalker soul, a tanking soul.
    Unseen Fury- Increases AP by 15% with 5 points. --As a tank, this is pretty useless as AP has no bearing on mitigation.
    Ruthless Stalker- Increases crit chance by 15% after warping. -- This is pretty stupid from a tanking perspective, sure, more damage equals more threat, but stalker phase reduces damage by 30%... We shouldn't need to rely on crits to hold aggro.
    Rift Scavenger- Heals you 2% per CP on mob when it dies. Could be useful in large packs, but if that's the case, you're more focused on keeping your buffs up. Offers absolutely nothing to boss fights and works in direct opposition to Planar Switch.
    Planar Switch- Move CP from one (live) mob to another. Extremely lack luster ability, especially when you consider its a 31 point skill.
    Death From the Shadows- Increases damage from Shadow Assault by 40%. Yet again another utterly useless 2 points for tanking. Tank damage is lowered by 30%, so, it's damage is still LESS than what'd it be if you weren't using stalker phase. ( 100 - 30% = 70. 70 + 40% = 98) Additionally, Shadow Assault is SINGLE TARGET, with Planar Strike, we really don't need more aggro single target. Now, if this buffed Shadow Blitz, the AoE skill... well... it'd be less useless. However, this would be much more useful if it buffed Rift Disturbance somehow.
    Hasted Time- You run 30% faster for 4 seconds after teleporting. Useless in almost any fight as a tank as almost all your teleports teleport you TO THE ENEMY.
    Freedom of Movement- Immune to stuns, snares, and roots for 2 seconds after teleporting. Not really useful as a tank as two teleports break those effects and the other teleports cant be used while CC'd. So, you have a 2 second window where you can't be CC'd... but not like it matters since most mobs/bosses don't really do it frequently or predictably.
    Defer Death- All the damage you would take is prevented... for 10 seconds, where it happens all at once.
    Scatter to the Shadows- 3 seconds of immunity and an effect purge. Great... Except that it's a 51pt ability and the Nightblade soul gets AN IDENTICAL ability at 38 points.

    So, as far as branch skills go, there are 14 points that are simply not worth investing. At 32 points, RS gets the recall ability, which is nice, but hardly necessary. 38 is defer death... a moronic kamikaze spell better suited to DPS. 44 is planar attraction- A must get, but it's still wonky- range and targeting leave something to be desired. 51 points, Scatter to the Shadows... 3 seconds of immunity is great... but again, the nightblade gets the same skill at 38 points.

    If rogues had two tanking souls, there would be no reason to go 51 in Rift Stalker. The best branch abilities can be had with 37 points and the only significant loss is the AOE pull. That leaves 29 points that could be invested into much more lucrative options in another tank soul.

    So... the only reason anyone goes 51 into RS is because it's the only choice. However, look at the DPS souls. Who goes 51 into ranger, night blade, or blade dancer? Feral Aggression is AWESOME! And how about that Master Huntsman! Blade and soul parity is OP!!!!

    The nightblade soul is about the closest thing to a perfect pure soul. It has defensive cool downs, offensive cool downs, hard hitting melee, nasty ranged, CCs, mad AOE, healing debuffs... I mean... NB has it all... and even still, people don't go 51 points into it because unless you're PVPing, you have little call for more then about 20/25 points. If you're PVPing, you go 44 for felblades and defensive cooldowns.

    51 point skills NEVER justify the 51 points required to get them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ayenn View Post
    I like the incentive terhe already is for maxing souls.
    • the 51 ability
    • having that soul be more effective

    What you are asking for can either be called a request to OP or just some kind of handout. these types of incentives are not needed. Sorry.
    Welcome to Rift 1.2
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  6. #6
    Ascendant Hartzekar's Avatar
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    Just made a post about 51 point builds

    http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...1-point-builds
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  7. #7
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    I agree that at some point something should be done to make all 51 point soul builds a little more competitive with hybrids.

    As said the problem with 51 point builds is they generally force you to buy passives that ordinarily you just wouldn't want to touch; that are either overly gimmicky or simply do not help with the soul's intended group role. The 51 point ability itself may often be quite good (if you examine it on it's own) but for the majority of souls it isn't worth the wasted points you would be better served spending in other souls to get talents you will actually use.

    My own idea is to give each soul an additional effect gained at 51. A passive buff or significant core ability upgrade to balance the scales a bit against some of the other less-than-useful talents you had to waste points on to reach said 51 points. Obviously it would vary from soul to soul (some naturally need more help at 51 than others). Significant but specialised to benefit only it's own soul.

    Examples to illustrate the sort of thing I mean (not exactly demands for said souls, heh):

    Mastered Soul: Warlord - Increased defensive bonuses from Battlefield Awareness.
    Mastered Soul: Bladedancer - Increased duration and potency of Rhythmic abilities.
    Mastered Soul: Nightblade - Increased chance for Nightblade Weapon Enchantments to trigger.
    Mastered Soul: Bard - Increased Motif duration.
    Mastered Soul: Riftstalker - Increased teleportation range.

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