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Thread: DPS Meter Solution!

  1. #1
    Shield of Telara
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    Default DPS Meter Solution!

    The camp is split about the need for DPS meters in RIFT.

    Part of the community feels that it is absolutley necessary for evaluating spec builds, rotations and self improvement. Alot of these same people believe that they are necessary for determining the reason for failure in a raid whipe ( no interrupts, who was standing in fire, who didn't cleanse etc. etc.)

    Part of the community believes that these meters while helpful, are far from necessary. The fear this portion of the community has is that this tool is used for more bad than good. Epeen. Belittling others, used as the sole measure of effectiveness by PUG groups, that don't really understand how to use the tool - often pitting player vs player in a group setting.

    There is a solution.

    1) Add a meter to all practice dummies. People that are looking to fine tune their spec/builds, gear set up, will have a viable tool for self improvement.

    2) Add a "Raid Meter" as a reward, able to be purchased by guilds level 5 and higher. Make the meter ONLY USABLE when in a 10 man raid or greater, with 80% of the raid sharing the same guild name. Raiding guilds will have the tool they are asking for, to analyze data to improve and overcome encounters.

    This solution solves the problem. You give the tools to guilds to analyze data. You give the meters to casual players looking to maximize their spec. And, you keep the tool out of the hands of people running 5 mans, pick up raids. as the sole measure by which they judge, belittle, and exclude others.

    Trion: I ask you to develop this tool yourself, and include it in the game, vs the alternative. 3rd party software - downloadable by any idiot with a Curse.com account.

    DPS meters can be extremely valuable in the right hands, and completely destructive in the wrong hands. Do what is right and develop this yourselves.

  2. #2
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landvia View Post
    The camp is split about the need for DPS meters in RIFT.

    Part of the community feels that it is absolutley necessary for evaluating spec builds, rotations and self improvement. Alot of these same people believe that they are necessary for determining the reason for failure in a raid whipe ( no interrupts, who was standing in fire, who didn't cleanse etc. etc.)

    Part of the community believes that these meters while helpful, are far from necessary. The fear this portion of the community has is that this tool is used for more bad than good. Epeen. Belittling others, used as the sole measure of effectiveness by PUG groups, that don't really understand how to use the tool - often pitting player vs player in a group setting.

    There is a solution.

    1) Add a meter to all practice dummies. People that are looking to fine tune their spec/builds, gear set up, will have a viable tool for self improvement.

    2) Add a "Raid Meter" as a reward, able to be purchased by guilds level 5 and higher. Make the meter ONLY USABLE when in a 10 man raid or greater, with 80% of the raid sharing the same guild name. Raiding guilds will have the tool they are asking for, to analyze data to improve and overcome encounters.

    This solution solves the problem. You give the tools to guilds to analyze data. You give the meters to casual players looking to maximize their spec. And, you keep the tool out of the hands of people running 5 mans, pick up raids. as the sole measure by which they judge, belittle, and exclude others.

    Trion: I ask you to develop this tool yourself, and include it in the game, vs the alternative. 3rd party software - downloadable by any idiot with a Curse.com account.

    DPS meters can be extremely valuable in the right hands, and completely destructive in the wrong hands. Do what is right and develop this yourselves.
    It could be as simple as a bar atop the dummy health bar. This bar can be a simple digital read out of the player's averaged single target DPS. Another dummy could show spike damage.

    The problem is that the dummy hold aggro on the player until you move out of range, so they would need an off/on switch so to speak.

  3. #3
    Shield of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimalken View Post
    It could be as simple as a bar atop the dummy health bar. This bar can be a simple digital read out of the player's averaged single target DPS. Another dummy could show spike damage.

    The problem is that the dummy hold aggro on the player until you move out of range, so they would need an off/on switch so to speak.
    There is no doubt that I don't have all the answers. I trust Trion could figure out those coding details. I am talking theory - big picture.

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  4. #4
    Rift Disciple
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    Its a nice idea. A good number of the players i know dont care about parsing/analyzing their performance at all, most because they dont want to have the trouble of setting up/launching a parser.
    But with something like this, anyone that strives to improve him/herself would definitely have an easy way to, and maybe that player that everyone says its a lazy-arse useless deadweight would have interest in verifying the reason for the...accusations.
    Basically, we would all have the same numbers, not 800 me, the other 850, some other 650, etc.

    0ss0m3 innit??

    Last edited by X3n0m0rph; 05-27-2011 at 08:44 AM.
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  5. #5
    General of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landvia View Post
    The camp is split about the need for DPS meters in RIFT.

    Part of the community feels that it is absolutley necessary for evaluating spec builds, rotations and self improvement. Alot of these same people believe that they are necessary for determining the reason for failure in a raid whipe ( no interrupts, who was standing in fire, who didn't cleanse etc. etc.)

    Part of the community believes that these meters while helpful, are far from necessary. The fear this portion of the community has is that this tool is used for more bad than good. Epeen. Belittling others, used as the sole measure of effectiveness by PUG groups, that don't really understand how to use the tool - often pitting player vs player in a group setting.

    There is a solution.

    1) Add a meter to all practice dummies. People that are looking to fine tune their spec/builds, gear set up, will have a viable tool for self improvement.

    2) Add a "Raid Meter" as a reward, able to be purchased by guilds level 5 and higher. Make the meter ONLY USABLE when in a 10 man raid or greater, with 80% of the raid sharing the same guild name. Raiding guilds will have the tool they are asking for, to analyze data to improve and overcome encounters.

    This solution solves the problem. You give the tools to guilds to analyze data. You give the meters to casual players looking to maximize their spec. And, you keep the tool out of the hands of people running 5 mans, pick up raids. as the sole measure by which they judge, belittle, and exclude others.

    Trion: I ask you to develop this tool yourself, and include it in the game, vs the alternative. 3rd party software - downloadable by any idiot with a Curse.com account.

    DPS meters can be extremely valuable in the right hands, and completely destructive in the wrong hands. Do what is right and develop this yourselves.
    Completely agree.

    Trion,

    Time to channel Nike and "JUST DO IT!!"

  6. #6
    Ascendant Aumvaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landvia View Post
    1) Add a meter to all practice dummies. People that are looking to fine tune their spec/builds, gear set up, will have a viable tool for self improvement.

    2) Add a "Raid Meter" as a reward, able to be purchased by guilds level 5 and higher. Make the meter ONLY USABLE when in a 10 man raid or greater, with 80% of the raid sharing the same guild name. Raiding guilds will have the tool they are asking for, to analyze data to improve and overcome encounters.
    I largely support these two ideas. I think there are probably some kinks to work out -- I'm not code-savvy enough to identify them -- but they're reasonable starting points.

    Thanx for thinking proactively, Landvia!
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  7. #7
    General of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimalken View Post
    It could be as simple as a bar atop the dummy health bar. This bar can be a simple digital read out of the player's averaged single target DPS. Another dummy could show spike damage.

    The problem is that the dummy hold aggro on the player until you move out of range, so they would need an off/on switch so to speak.
    Another tweak to the idea would be to set a timer on the dummy, so you can test your dps over a set time period. The timer would start with your first "offensive" action (reuse the code that triggers a mob to charge you when you start attacking)

  8. #8
    Shadowlander
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    It's too limited for my taste. If there was a meter I'd like to be able to use it anytime I wanted. I'd rather see enforcement against players using meters to grief others than installing a 'child-proof' type of meter like this.

  9. #9
    Telaran Cryianne's Avatar
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    /signed

    Definitely something I'd love to see in the near future. I think its a great compromise. One of my major issues was with running experts and saying my X build sucks because I'm doing Y dps. But for the most part with something like that, it won't happen unless someone in the group is running a parser.

    All in all. A great idea.
    Last edited by Cryianne; 05-27-2011 at 09:44 AM.
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  10. #10
    Shadowlander elitegamer1971's Avatar
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    This is a good compromise and may prove useful for the individual as well as a guild. I would go for something like that.

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  11. #11
    Ascendant Hartzekar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D a n k View Post
    It's too limited for my taste. If there was a meter I'd like to be able to use it anytime I wanted. I'd rather see enforcement against players using meters to grief others than installing a 'child-proof' type of meter like this.
    The meter could be only applied to yourself, not the whole group. It'd be as you put it "childproof", but still effective
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  12. #12
    Ascendant Fireforge's Avatar
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    This is just an effort to exclude smaller guilds and people who PUG. You aren't fooling anyone. While it may be that every PUG you have been in, has been a terrible experience, it has not been mine. I had a group of 6 players (2 from one guild, 3 from another, and me) that did a pick up raid every week. We grabbed 4 other players and formed our raid. Under this system, we would not get the same benefit as a guild that can fill 8 spots.

  13. #13
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hartzekar View Post
    The meter could be only applied to yourself, not the whole group. It'd be as you put it "childproof", but still effective
    None of the solutions posted showed a meter that I could use for myself anytime I wanted to. That's very limited. What if I want to test out my Riftstalker and see how he takes damage/hits/etc? How would a training dummy help me? How could I test aoe?

    Even if they did, I'm strongly against child-proof tools like this. Why not punish the people that mis-use it instead of limiting everyone else? Why should I, and others, have to deal with an inferior tool because of a few bad apples?

  14. #14
    Shield of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fireforge View Post
    This is just an effort to exclude smaller guilds and people who PUG. You aren't fooling anyone. While it may be that every PUG you have been in, has been a terrible experience, it has not been mine. I had a group of 6 players (2 from one guild, 3 from another, and me) that did a pick up raid every week. We grabbed 4 other players and formed our raid. Under this system, we would not get the same benefit as a guild that can fill 8 spots.
    Which is exactly the point of this. 95% of the problems that come from DPS meters come from people PUGGING raids, and 5 mans.

    Random people criticizing others performance that they have met for the first time, without getting to know them. People get defensive, tempers flare. Then comes the General Chat Trolling. Cutting edge raid content is not designed to be puggable. It is designed for a group of people to tackle an encounter over and over, figrue out where they go wrong, then succeed. Not 1 whipe, check the meter - you suck, so Im gonna kick you.

  15. #15
    Ascendant Fireforge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D a n k View Post
    None of the solutions posted showed a meter that I could use for myself anytime I wanted to. That's very limited. What if I want to test out my Riftstalker and see how he takes damage/hits/etc? How would a training dummy help me? How could I test aoe?

    Even if they did, I'm strongly against child-proof tools like this. Why not punish the people that mis-use it instead of limiting everyone else? Why should I, and others, have to deal with an inferior tool because of a few bad apples?
    Further, if it only applies to guilds, then what should they care if someone else has the tool?

    /sarcasm on

    I am also sure that no group made up of 80% guildies has ever abused a meter before

    /sarcasm off

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