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Thread: Open world PvP flagging improvement (on PvE servers)

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple
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    Default Open world PvP flagging improvement (on PvE servers)

    Hey, guys. Generally, good job on open world PvP flags for PvE servers. Autoflag option is cool and works fairly smoothly either way (especially since you can macro the PvP flag command to a button).

    My only problem is with the timer on turning your PvP flag off. I recognize the need to have one, so it's not the timer itself that I object to.

    It's the way the timer unduly punishes some souls when trying to "unflag" themselves.

    Here's a scenario for you, that happened a couple nights ago:

    Group of me and my friends are doing PvP quests in Scarwood. We flag up for the stages where we need to kill defiants/there are aggressive defiant faction NPCs around, and all get ready to stay on our toes. No problem, this is how it should work.

    We're almost done, so we turn our flags off (that way our timers can start ticking down if we don't run into unexpected trouble while doing turn-ins and such). As we get back to our quest-givers to turn things in and wait in relative safety for our flags to go away, we notice that our bard's flag timer isn't ticking. It's still at 4 minutes even though the rest of us are at 2.

    We realize that it's because she didn't turn her maintained buffs off. So she's continually buffing flagged players, refreshing her flag's duration. And all of us turn to each other and go, "What a stupid notion! We're all trying to get rid of our flags, and none of us have done any aggressive acts for the same amount of time... why should she be punished (or be forced to be less effective if we were fighting faction-neutral PvE content instead of chilling in camp) more than we are when none of us have harmed a Defiant in the same amount of time?"

    The flags would be greatly improved, we all agreed, if aiding a flagged player only increased your flag's duration to be equal to the duration of the player you aided (if your flag duration was lower than theirs, that is). This way, groups could continue to function in PvE content without their healers and buffers having to wait until everybody else was unflagged before doing their jobs.

    With the current system, say, a bard and a justicar could PvE four HOURS without losing their flags if they continued fighting instead of sitting around doing nothing for 5 minutes, just because their normal combat activities (against PvE content) would continually refresh their flags because they're technically assisting a flagged player -- even though neither "flagged" player is or has been engaging in PvP content recently.

    This is a poor feature of the system, as it just acts as a further disincentive for predominantly PvE players to participate in open world PvP content. They either feel persecuted as a class who has to stop helping their group against non-PvP targets in order to deflag, or the entire group must take a sizeable (compared to downtime in other aspects of the game) timeout if they participate in ANY PvP content at all. Faced with that choice, many will simply choose to avoid the PvP entirely, which is exactly the opposite of what a good PvP system should encourage. The PvP in this game is a positive contribution to the variety of content in this game, and I think the mechanics of it should be inviting and encourage people who are usually PvP shy to give it a shot. That's to everybody's benefit.

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple
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    if you choose to flag yourself on a pve server you have to wait for it to turn off.

    its not punishment..its to prevent exploitation of pvp mechanics on pve servers.
    “People crushed by law, have no hopes but from power. If laws are their enemies, they will be enemies to laws; and those who have much to hope and nothing to lose, will always be dangerous.”- -Edmund Burke

    "So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause."- -Padme Amidala

  3. #3
    Rift Chaser
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    Default 0 pvp

    IMHO There should be Zero pvp on PVE servers , Its a PVE server if you want PVP go play a PVP server ,

  4. #4
    Sword of Telara Shintu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minty Freshness View Post
    if you choose to flag yourself on a pve server you have to wait for it to turn off.

    its not punishment..its to prevent exploitation of pvp mechanics on pve servers.
    Wow..did you even read the post?
    No, didnt think so

    And OP, I agree...that is rather dumb and needs to be looked into
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  5. #5
    Ascendant
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shintu View Post
    Wow..did you even read the post?
    No, didnt think so

    And OP, I agree...that is rather dumb and needs to be looked into
    He probably did, I certainly did and agree with him entirely.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerin View Post
    He probably did, I certainly did and agree with him entirely.
    So can you elaborate about how PvP mechanics could be exploited by fighting a PvP battle, winning, and then not fighting PvP while you PvE? What part of PvEing (instead if sitting around on your thumbs for 5 minutes, doing literally nothing, including not buffing each other or healing up) merits the extension of your PvP flag?

    I mean, seriously, people, if you're going to badmouth the idea or declare that it can be exploited, at least do me the courtesy of engaging in some discussion about why you feel that way.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shintu View Post
    Wow..did you even read the post?
    No, didnt think so

    And OP, I agree...that is rather dumb and needs to be looked into
    buffing flagged players means your pvp doesnt get turned off..its a part of the timer and its working like it should...its not punishment..its to prevent exploitation of pvp mechanics on pve servers.

    yes i read the post. yes im still right.

    interacting with a flagged player is supposed to flag you, and keep you flagged till you stop doing it. its how pvp works on a pve server. if you dont wanna get flagged..dont perform actions that will flag you.

    asking for this rule to not exist is asking for unfair advantages in pvp on pve servers. and its not gonna happen.
    Last edited by Minty Freshness; 04-19-2011 at 07:59 AM.
    “People crushed by law, have no hopes but from power. If laws are their enemies, they will be enemies to laws; and those who have much to hope and nothing to lose, will always be dangerous.”- -Edmund Burke

    "So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause."- -Padme Amidala

  8. #8
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    But why does interacting with a flagged player flag you FOR LONGER THAN THEY ARE? The flagged player may not have done anything PvP oriented for the last 4 minutes -- and so interacting with that player merits flagging you for 5, and *refreshing* your flag for 5?

    This is punitive for some souls. That's the issue, here.

    Some souls function fine, and can keep PvEing uninterrupted, as part of a group effort, even, while letting their flag expire. Other souls cannot. This disparity is unfair to the souls that are being treated differently and punished for daring to try to have some fun/be productive PvEing instead of sitting in their penalty box (where they can do NOTHING) for 5 minutes for knocking out a PvP quest or two.
    Last edited by bitrot; 04-19-2011 at 08:25 AM.

  9. #9
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    This is a necessary problem imo otherwise the healer could unflag and still provide benefits to a flagged person without fear of death. How frustrating would that be trying to kill a guy receiving heals from a guy you couldnt even hit. Nope it has to stay as it is for the games sake.

  10. #10
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by pawpaw View Post
    This is a necessary problem imo otherwise the healer could unflag and still provide benefits to a flagged person without fear of death. How frustrating would that be trying to kill a guy receiving heals from a guy you couldnt even hit. Nope it has to stay as it is for the games sake.
    Not an issue with what the OP suggests. If a healer/buffer effects a person that is flagged their timer is changed to match the flagged player's timer. Try reading a bit more next time.

  11. #11
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    Exactly, Xavier. I'm not trying to give anybody unflagged buff-bots, I'm not trying to allow anybody a method to self-heal (using rift scavenger, chloro abilities, justicar abilities, etc) on PvE content with no risk between PvP engagements...

    I'm trying to make it so that a group of people can do some PvP, decide they're done with PvP, and do PvE while waiting for their flags to turn off... and then all unflag at the same time. Right now, for many classes, this is impossible. 3 of the 5 people in the group will unflag, and the remaining 2 will still have 5 minute timers, despite all doing the same content, and none doing anything remotely threatening to another player. And, to make matters worse, those other two (say, a bard and a justicar) might NEVER unflag unless they go sit in a corner and turn off all their abilities for 5 minutes, forcing the rest of the group to sit around on their thumbs hating themselves for being friends with bards and justicars.

  12. #12
    Ascendant Pixel Monkey's Avatar
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    how about the fact that if youre unflagged, a hostile NPC can and will attack you and theres nothing you can do about it until you flag
    who took my names!

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