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Thread: It's Been More Than Three Years, Please Pull the Plug

  1. #46
    Telaran Perisemiotics's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Necalli View Post
    In what way does my post denigrate players or the game?

    The animosity towards Gamingo, and let me be clear, it is only towards Gamingo - - already exists. This post is nothing more than the manifestation of that. Clearly, I'm not the only one who is equally frustrated.
    No, I didn't say you personally were doing it (you did not) but this type of thread attracts forum pvpers who then go on their endless personal sub-threads where they end up accusing others of being bots and so on and so forth...

    Quote Originally Posted by Necalli View Post
    So what? That doesn't make it okay in any sense. This statement is nothing more than "well, it's just best to accept how things are," it's defeatest and useless. We shouldn't just roll over because that's who Gamingo is a greedy corporation.
    Do you still pay taxes to your local, and the federal gov't? in spite of the plethora of private, self-serving, tyrannical interests embedded therein that have been reported on for decades and continue to ravage the welfare and basic dignity and rights of your common, fellow citizen - when not those of yourself and your loved ones? unless you decide to completely retire from society and live a hermit's life atop some far away mountain eating roots and meditating in silence for the rest of your life... you have to find compromise. I never said I think it's okay what gamigo or Trion did or do but that doesn't forbid me to hang around and commit on some personal level to the game still.
    No, it surely isn't okay as I'm certainly not being defeatist by saying so - look at it from another angle: it's a publishing company that essentially does nothing but acquire defaulted assets and keep them up for profit; they never hid their intent, we've seen many videos of their CEO saying exactly what they do, why, and how. all I meant is, do not delude yourselves. We let Trion deceive us because they created and did great things with the game for a while but their final run with Rift, let me say, was much worse than anything gamigo has done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Necalli View Post
    Okay, so you essentially just stick your head in the sand. That's fine, that's your progotive. Don't expect the rest of us to just accept that.
    Naw, I "stuck my head in the sand" when I gave up on the beautiful game because of politics, bureaucracy, what have you... my prerogative if I have one would be, there's only so much we can do in our limited lifetime and with our even more limited resources - grasp the day, enjoy what makes you happy... machinations and bigger interests will likely always be around and yes we should fight and resist, but we don't have to forfeit our personal enjoyment for that. You choose to step away, that's your personal choice and I can only respect that for reasons that are yours alone, and so I wouldn't say you're "sticking your head in the sand" - but when you ask for the game to be shut down, you're at the very least ignoring hundreds or thousands of other players to whom the game still means a great deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Necalli View Post
    I don't doubt some people are playing, I'm not going to pretend to know if they're having fun or if there is another reason that they're logging in, however, we do not have any statics to tell who enjoying the game and how many are logging in for other reasons or even how many plan on being here in a year's time.

    How many guilds are actually active and either engaging in content or running events? What are the populations of these guilds?
    As far as I know there aren't any statistics that gauge "having fun," are there? I've seen Steam charts which show the same metrics from Trion's last year; I've just gotten back and am only doing crafting/carny dailies, going to the bank, checking what all my alts have, what items do what and how they work, relearning stuff... in between I look around TB and Meridian and see not really fewer people than back in the day. I went to Tarken one evening and we did a casual NMR VI run by a guild from another shard that is new to me, talked to the guy and he told me they run all content over the week. Their guild chat was lively and laid back. ofc no one knows what will happen tomorrow let alone a year from now - how and why would you let that logic keep you from enjoying a game that you like?

    Quote Originally Posted by Necalli View Post
    By definition it is, MMOs are considered games as a live service. If that live service is no longer being supported then it is dead. Content updates are key to that distinction.
    Without trying to delve in the semantics of it, supporting does entail updating, which in turn does not necessarily comprise development. They have kept the game up and running, which equals supporting and updating; on development I haven't really seen anything other than some things that supposedly were almost finished by Trion, and this new faction or whatever it be that the fired devs were working on. I don't agree with calling a game dead on there not being further content develop't - look at GW1, would you call it a dead game? how many years without a speck of new content, and yet, look at the community and activity in-game...

    Quote Originally Posted by Necalli View Post
    The same could be said of Witcher 3, but there we aren't being hit with exploitive shop items and being told there are updates coming.
    Which exploitative items do you mean exactly? Battle Pass, in my opinion is sh!t but it keeps and even pulls some interest from players, but I wouldn't call it "exploitative" especially because it has a free option - the one thing that comes to mind are those boxes of dungeons chest charges that are basically loot rights for cash. THAT is BS, and that was designed and implemented by, yours truly, Trion. If you look at the history of these p2w items you'll see Trion was the one screwing it up there again and again, for years ever since a mere couple months after NMT launch when Brasse came out full of dwarven verve shoving it down our high-elven throats that we had no choice but accept that the earring slot thither-to available with in-game currency was going for credits only. Honestly, gamigo shop management feels quite smooth and stress-free compared to Trion's. Gamigo has basically stuck to cash shop skins, which are not exploitative at all, on the contrary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Necalli View Post
    Oh, don't worry, I am playing both. That doesn't mean we are going to be okay with this game being exploited by Gamingo.
    That's all good, I've been in gw2 as well and very happy with it and yet... Rift is special all games are "exploited" to some degree, are they not? I honestly don't see how whatever you think gamigo is doing here is worse than what Trion did - remember those sales they did shortly before the surprise bankrupt announcement, of some packs going for $100? and all the p2w items, the pre-ordering of Starfall Prophecy (a fiasco through and through) calling it a "premium" DLC just to make it free 6 months later, and on and on and on...

    Quote Originally Posted by Necalli View Post
    Here's the heart of the issue. Technically you are right and we all know it. The problem is Gamingo won't say that and then they continue to say things that suggest there is content in the works. Or, worse yet, they'll update the PTR. We all know they're doing that just to lead us along and get more money out of us. Why are we okay with this? It is not okay to lead our playerbase on like this, it isn't right to degrade the game like this.

    Here's the thing, if Gamingo came out and said "hey, we're suspending all future content development for Rift indefinitely" I would be okay with it and I would let it go. This though? This place where they drag the mangled corpse of a game I so dearly love through the mud and dirt? No, I'm not okay with it and I'm going to advocate for something to be done that is acceptable - - that is either pulling the plug or making a formal statement.
    We know they will never come out and say that because private corporations don't function that way. As for misleading, that's the nature of marketing itself. People should know better and yet, most don't and that's how the advertisement industry continues to thrive. In my opinion they're scrambling, trying different options with some occasional development but as they're not per company mission tied to that it feels like it's all over the place. I just don't agree witht he notion they're dragging a mangled corpse of a game. One has to know they're trying to make a profit from the game without any a priori development of content. Don't come into Rift today expecting what any other big MMO normally offers. Now and then there'll be some seasonal event minions and skins, achieves and the BP, and with luck some new faction or tier of gear or mini map or something. This game already has too much goodness in it to be called a mangled corpse even if it gets zero new things, ever. If they update the PTS, do you really take it as a sign whatever gets on there is going live at all? I'd think that's reading a little too much into it, especially nowadays. You don't have to be okay with anything they do to still enjoy the game you love, as long as they don't pull the plug and cripple it in a blatantly nefarious way like they did to Atlas Reactor.
    My final take is, if they keep Rift (the live game, not the PTS, which isn't really the game) as they have been, it could and will be enjoyed by many players for many years still.
    Xarhuli@Greybriar

  2. #47
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    Default I feel you OP but.....

    I feel let down and frustrated by the state of Rift too. I am a guild leader who has lost 98% of the guild since SFP/COA came out- a dismal rollout- bug ridden and raid free for weeks. Not long after Trion put out that expansion raiders started to jump ship- then regulars. For a 40.00 initial purchase there were too many unkept promises. Trion had dismal management, the Community Manager Brasse was terrible, and the devs were kept at arms length from the community by their supervisory staff. Sure- they may have popped into Discord now and then- and they made great efforts at innovating and patching- but long story short- no matter how good the dev bad management is a thing. I was unhappy Gamigo acquired Rift. Aileen had made a solid offer for it- and was turned down. That is because Rift was part of a package deal- part of the Trion bankruptcy filing. As indicated- Gamigo tends to scoop up games in trouble for short term financial gain. None of this has anything to do with white knights, players, or the community. None of us caused bad management, terrible decision-making, investor plug-pulling, or anything else. It just left us- a community- high and dry. I have invested money, time, effort, and a lot of my life into this game. As any guild leader knows, time spent is considerable, friends made virtually and in real life are valuable. It hurts to see them go, to lose touch with them, and to see the game that gave so many hours of enjoyment stagnate. Sorry for the long-winded post- but while I do not wish to see the plug pulled (and thus years of my life go down the tubes) I see it happening. No development means a non-viable game. I log on now mainly for nostalgia and to help the few people left in my guild. It makes me sad, but it is what it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zornar View Post
    Is that just speculation or do you have an actual example of a gamigo game where a sharp decline in spending forced gamigo to make major changes to appease the playerbase?
    Its a universal tactic. I dont need Gamigo-specific examples there are thousands of examples to look up historically.

    Im just lol at you since you love history yet are clueless what a union is or how/why such things formed. Seriously dude dont bother replying to my posts your so out of it falling all over yourself to defend.

    Ever seen a boycott before? Hmmm guess these terms werent taught to you. Clearly you dont know about any of this. Guess no one ever got disgruntled and banded together to demand better treatment. Nah!! LOL

    I guess your extent of history is copy/paste but no actual working knowledge of such things. Hmm. Unions and boycotts are 101 level. Anyways go study more k?
    Last edited by Wrastion; 04-06-2021 at 07:02 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambrianna View Post
    Unfortunately, these tactics don't work all the time. I wouldn't be surprised if they did experience a sharp decline, and more decline over the last year financially. And the playerbase was without a doubt, outraged.

    But what's changed? Nothing. I think they dropped those bubble popping things from 25 to 15, with the eternal weapon, so there's something. It's been so long I can't even think of the correct terminology. All the argung, name-calling, hatefulness both at Gamigo and other players solved nothing.

    I know folks still like going in and playing what's there, without spending any money. Hard to "wish that away" and hope the plug gets pulled altogether. I don't like what happened to Rift's course either, but is it so bad as a free-to-play maintenance game, that some folks still enjoy? I mean, our time is our own to spend. Just because I think it's wasting my time to play any longer, doesn't mean everyone has to feel that way.
    I am not with the pull the plug mentality, nor to not play what you enjoy. Im the “This is what Gamigo is about get some respect dont support vampire entities people are enabling them to exist” crusade. People are clumping me in with other poster’s views.

  5. #50
    Shield of Telara Necalli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perisemiotics View Post
    No, I didn't say you personally were doing it (you did not) but this type of thread attracts forum pvpers who then go on their endless personal sub-threads where they end up accusing others of being bots and so on and so forth...
    That is true of any thread on any forum. People will always do that, I presented my argument in good faith and have not engaged in that activity. I'm not going to restrict my thread posting based on other people's actions. They are not my responsibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by Perisemiotics View Post
    Do you still pay taxes to your local, and the federal gov't? in spite of the plethora of private, self-serving, tyrannical interests embedded therein that have been reported on for decades and continue to ravage the welfare and basic dignity and rights of your common, fellow citizen - when not those of yourself and your loved ones? unless you decide to completely retire from society and live a hermit's life atop some far away mountain eating roots and meditating in silence for the rest of your life... you have to find compromise. I never said I think it's okay what gamigo or Trion did or do but that doesn't forbid me to hang around and commit on some personal level to the game still.
    When a government gets out of hand it often leads to civil war. Where people wholesale reject the authority of government. Even if the government is offering paved roads and substantial Healthcare. This is because they know that the offer of the tyrannical government isn't worth the price. There are times compromise doesn't work, the situation with Gamingo is one of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Perisemiotics View Post
    No, it surely isn't okay as I'm certainly not being defeatist by saying so - look at it from another angle: it's a publishing company that essentially does nothing but acquire defaulted assets and keep them up for profit; they never hid their intent, we've seen many videos of their CEO saying exactly what they do, why, and how. all I meant is, do not delude yourselves. We let Trion deceive us because they created and did great things with the game for a while but their final run with Rift, let me say, was much worse than anything gamigo has done.
    Oh, I had my bones to pick with Trion too. This isn't the first time I've had a thread like this. However, Trion is gone. That group of people cannot effect the game anymore. So it does us no good to point at them and say "look at what they did." Yes, Trion really did some shady stuff. That doesn't mean ignore Gamingo and their actions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Perisemiotics View Post
    Naw, I "stuck my head in the sand" when I gave up on the beautiful game because of politics, bureaucracy, what have you... my prerogative if I have one would be, there's only so much we can do in our limited lifetime and with our even more limited resources - grasp the day, enjoy what makes you happy... machinations and bigger interests will likely always be around and yes we should fight and resist, but we don't have to forfeit our personal enjoyment for that. You choose to step away, that's your personal choice and I can only respect that for reasons that are yours alone, and so I wouldn't say you're "sticking your head in the sand" - but when you ask for the game to be shut down, you're at the very least ignoring hundreds or thousands of other players to whom the game still means a great deal.
    You are right, and if this were ESO, GW2, Tera, or any other game I would step away without caring. This is Rift though, this is one of two MMOs I dearly care about and because I do care I will push back. We do have an incredibly finite amount of time on this world, but I have chosen to care about this game. Hence why I'm here.

    The problem is, you can't gauge why they're here. People who post on the forums are always a minority of players. Is it because they care and love the game? Is because of FOMO? Is it because they're in a depression and that's how they escape it? So, instead of presuming why people play a game that hasn't seen an update in more than three years I work off the assumption I don't know why they're here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Perisemiotics View Post
    As far as I know there aren't any statistics that gauge "having fun," are there? I've seen Steam charts which show the same metrics from Trion's last year; I've just gotten back and am only doing crafting/carny dailies, going to the bank, checking what all my alts have, what items do what and how they work, relearning stuff... in between I look around TB and Meridian and see not really fewer people than back in the day. I went to Tarken one evening and we did a casual NMR VI run by a guild from another shard that is new to me, talked to the guy and he told me they run all content over the week. Their guild chat was lively and laid back. ofc no one knows what will happen tomorrow let alone a year from now - how and why would you let that logic keep you from enjoying a game that you like?
    I'm glad you enjoyed your time, it's completely anecdotal in relation to the
    discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Perisemiotics View Post
    Without trying to delve in the semantics of it, supporting does entail updating, which in turn does not necessarily comprise development. They have kept the game up and running, which equals supporting and updating; on development I haven't really seen anything other than some things that supposedly were almost finished by Trion, and this new faction or whatever it be that the fired devs were working on. I don't agree with calling a game dead on there not being further content develop't - look at GW1, would you call it a dead game? how many years without a speck of new content, and yet, look at the community and activity in-game...
    Yes, I would call GW1 dead. I would apply the same definition to any MMORPG where the promise of continued content updates is part of the billing of the game. You are conflating people logging in with the function of a game as a live service. Updates are mandatory within acceptable time frames in order to meet the definition. If WoW didn't have a content update for three years, people would rightly say the game is dead.

    You could say there is a small active playerbase, that people still are logging in - - but the idea that the game is "alive" or "not dead" is technically and functionally false and you participate in misleading other people when you argue against that. A game not receiving updates may very well be the deciding factor for someone checking out the game and whether to play it.

    Let's be brutally honest here, how many people are going to start an new MMORPG if they preemptively know the game is not receiving updates or support? The answer is likely, very few. One of the biggest appeals of an MMORPG is the promise of continued updates, development, and support.

    Quote Originally Posted by Perisemiotics View Post
    Which exploitative items do you mean exactly? Battle Pass, in my opinion is sh!t but it keeps and even pulls some interest from players, but I wouldn't call it "exploitative" especially because it has a free option - the one thing that comes to mind are those boxes of dungeons chest charges that are basically loot rights for cash. THAT is BS, and that was designed and implemented by, yours truly, Trion. If you look at the history of these p2w items you'll see Trion was the one screwing it up there again and again, for years ever since a mere couple months after NMT launch when Brasse came out full of dwarven verve shoving it down our high-elven throats that we had no choice but accept that the earring slot thither-to available with in-game currency was going for credits only. Honestly, gamigo shop management feels quite smooth and stress-free compared to Trion's. Gamigo has basically stuck to cash shop skins, which are not exploitative at all, on the contrary.
    In reference to my previous comment, yes Trion executed terrible and shady business practices. I'll never forget the absolute disgust I had towards Prime, or the earrings, or the mount box.

    Anything that isn't content (souls, classes, zones, ect.) I would argue is exploitive. However, to put that in context, I largely have a bone to pick with F2P models on the whole and firmly believe they should only ever have genuine content on the shop. Things like skins, character slots, bank slots, wardrobes, all of that should never be on the shop.

    Quote Originally Posted by Perisemiotics View Post
    That's all good, I've been in gw2 as well and very happy with it and yet... Rift is special all games are "exploited" to some degree, are they not? I honestly don't see how whatever you think gamigo is doing here is worse than what Trion did - remember those sales they did shortly before the surprise bankrupt announcement, of some packs going for $100? and all the p2w items, the pre-ordering of Starfall Prophecy (a fiasco through and through) calling it a "premium" DLC just to make it free 6 months later, and on and on and on...
    While I largely enjoy the GW2 model and think it's one of the better F2P models of the industry, I still have issues with it.

    There's a difference between exploiting and funding your game/servers. Again, Trion did bad things, that doesn't mean that we should be appreciative to Gamingo for their behavior.

    Quote Originally Posted by Perisemiotics View Post
    We know they will never come out and say that because private corporations don't function that way. As for misleading, that's the nature of marketing itself.
    Your arguments rely heavily on "well, that's just the way it is" which again comes back to this defeatest attitude that we should just accept whatever behavior Gamingo puts forward. I'm not going to accept that, ever. Things can be better, even if this is the trend of this company. Why would you not want to improve the state of the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Perisemiotics View Post
    People should know better and yet, most don't and that's how the advertisement industry continues to thrive. In my opinion they're scrambling, trying different options with some occasional development but as they're not per company mission tied to that it feels like it's all over the place.
    Is it because they don't know better or they don't care? Those are very different things.

    Who is scrambling? There's no one left to scramble from what I understand.
    Quote Originally Posted by Perisemiotics View Post
    I just don't agree witht he notion they're dragging a mangled corpse of a game. One has to know they're trying to make a profit from the game without any a priori development of content.
    They're dragging the mangled corpse of Rift for profit. They clearly don't care about the game as a product and have no investment in the game that I'm aware of outside of a financial one.

    I'm not oblivious to the fact they want to make a profit. That's such an obvious point it shouldn't need to be said. The question becomes, are they only searching for profit from this game or are they searching to make a game?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perisemiotics View Post
    Don't come into Rift today expecting what any other big MMO normally offers. Now and then there'll be some seasonal event minions and skins, achieves and the BP, and with luck some new faction or tier of gear or mini map or something.
    No, I'm not going to agree to this. That's what Rift always was and has been. "We're not in Azeroth anymore" remember? The proclamation of war by the devs when it launched, a clear and obvious parallel to WoW. I expect the game to receive updates until they pull the plug or announce its no longer receiving support. It is not an unreasonable request in any way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Perisemiotics View Post
    This game already has too much goodness in it to be called a mangled corpse even if it gets zero new things, ever.
    This is like saying "grandma lived a full life, so we don't care if she's being exploited by her caretakers at her home." Just because it's sunsetting doesn't mean we should be okay with it being treated like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Perisemiotics View Post
    If they update the PTS, do you really take it as a sign whatever gets on there is going live at all?
    If something goes to the PUBLIC TEST SHARD, where items go to be tested for a live launch, I do in fact expect an update to the live client. This is the norm across all MMORPGs. If there is an update to the test realm then there is the reasonable expectation that the live client will receive an update.

    Quote Originally Posted by Perisemiotics View Post
    I'd think that's reading a little too much into it, especially nowadays. You don't have to be okay with anything they do to still enjoy the game you love, as long as they don't pull the plug and cripple it in a blatantly nefarious way like they did to Atlas Reactor.
    Reading into normal expectations of functions of the public test realm? Something that has been a standardized action across the industry? You're asking me to drop the standard for Gamingo here. I'm not going to do that.

    Besides, you said it yourself, they've already acted nefariously with Atlas Reactor. Why would you trust them to behave differently towards Rift?
    Quote Originally Posted by Perisemiotics View Post
    My final take is, if they keep Rift (the live game, not the PTS, which isn't really the game) as they have been, it could and will be enjoyed by many players for many years still.
    Okay, that's great, except that's no the discussion being had on this thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    Its a universal tactic. I dont need Gamigo-specific examples there are thousands of examples to look up historically.
    Thanks for clarifying that it was just speculation on your part that players boycotting the spending of money on Rift would work with gamigo.

    We already know that gamigo simply shuts down games that do not bring in sufficient revenue, as they recently did for Defiance, Defiance 2050, Twin Saga and Eden Eternal.

    They previously shut down Atlas Reactor and Rift Prime when they didn't make enough money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    I am not with the pull the plug mentality, nor to not play what you enjoy. Im the “This is what Gamigo is about get some respect dont support vampire entities people are enabling them to exist” crusade. People are clumping me in with other poster’s views.
    You may be more midline. I'm saddened by what has happened to Rift, but at the end of the day, Trion screwed their portion, now Gamigo is finishing it off.

    I'm all for speaking up, even aggressively, and at times it does help. One of my favorite sayings - "Nothing beats a fail but a try". I think many have tried, but unfortunately, it didn't really matter in this case.

    I don't agree that Gamigo should be supported monetarily, only from the standpoint that it's been WAY too long for anything decent back to the membership. I get it, everyone has to eat, and no one should have to work for free. But this is waaaayyyy past that. I don't see any ponying up on Gamgio's end. They got supported enough, with little-to-no return.

    At this point, shutting Rift down will mostly just hurt the folks that enjoy playing what's there, dimensions, events, etc. Won't hurt Gamigo any, they'll be sure of that. It feels more like it would be punishing the folks that still have enjoyment here. For those that are unhappy here, there are definitely other games to sink money into, and hopefully more coming! (Anxiously waiting for Ashes!)

    I was sad when I let my patron go. I was part of the Beta critters, so it's been a long time here. I am one of those that likes things to keep "movin' and groovin'", so I eventually quit. To be frank, part of what kept me here were the lovely people I became friends with, along with a fun guild. I like routine, but at some point it just gets boring.

    Such a shame, what's happened here.

  8. #53
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    All of this discussion is pointless. There has been so many threads already, and every time, everyone is just talking about the same things over and over.

    Nothing that has been talked about here will reach someone high at Gamigo, and even if it does it won't change anything. Gamigo is just yet another company that is here to make money. And all these suggestions - let's buy more **** on Rift store, mby then they will do something. No they won't.
    Why would they invest huge amounts of money in a dying game just because few people bought more than usual.
    Stop these fantasies that something will change. If Rift had a brighter future then Trion wouldn't have sold it in the first place.
    They saw an opportunity to get out and they took it. Gamigo will just milk Rift till there's nothing else to milk.
    Trove is living only because of the similarities of minecraft. The game itself is worse than Rift.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfexin View Post
    All of this discussion is pointless. There has been so many threads already, and every time, everyone is just talking about the same things over and over.

    Nothing that has been talked about here will reach someone high at Gamigo, and even if it does it won't change anything. Gamigo is just yet another company that is here to make money.
    Agreed. All gaming companies are out to make money.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfexin View Post
    And all these suggestions - let's buy more **** on Rift store, mby then they will do something. No they won't.
    Why would they invest huge amounts of money in a dying game just because few people bought more than usual.
    If it was a huge increase in sales, say double or triple for the year, then gamigo might consider doing more for the part of the game that was driving sales. For example, if most of the new sales were of dimension items, gamigo would probably add more new dimension items to take advantage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfexin View Post
    Stop these fantasies that something will change.
    Rift is a fantasy MMORPG. The Forums have long been a place to entertain fantasies by making suggestions that will never happen and reporting bugs that will never be fixed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfexin View Post
    If Rift had a brighter future then Trion wouldn't have sold it in the first place.
    They saw an opportunity to get out and they took it. Gamigo will just milk Rift till there's nothing else to milk.
    Trion had no choice to sell. It was essentially a bankruptcy sale but happened under a special California law that avoided bankruptcy court.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfexin View Post
    Trove is living only because of the similarities of minecraft. The game itself is worse than Rift.
    It's a mystery to me too how Trove can be so popular. It was bringing in about 3 times the revenue of Rift the first couple of years after gamigo bought it..
    Last edited by Zornar; 04-07-2021 at 03:56 AM. Reason: fix typo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zornar View Post
    Thanks for clarifying that it was just speculation on your part that players boycotting the spending of money on Rift would work with gamigo.

    We already know that gamigo simply shuts down games that do not bring in sufficient revenue, as they recently did for Defiance, Defiance 2050, Twin Saga and Eden Eternal.

    They previously shut down Atlas Reactor and Rift Prime when they didn't make enough money.
    Thats why you boycott early when acquisition still brings in decent revenue. Or boycott when revenue is still good, at any point in time. As to your own words, we dont know how much $$ Gamigo is bringing in. If they are bringing in decent revenue then no, as in a big no, would they simply shut Rift down if the players boycotted. They would add more focus on the game to appease the players in some fashion to continue the cash inflow. Its a business-its how this stuff works. Only an idiot would throw in the towel vs investing a little bit more back into a game to keep receiving a decent return.

    The reason these games never see Gamigo do what Im suggesting is due to players attitudes and lack of fighting back. Players with attitudes like yours. Words alone are pointless to these companies. Words + holding back $$$ speaks volumes to these companies.

    For every person like me there is someone like you whose accepted defeat and counters any group action to even try getting the game to a better place. Your own bug fix suggestion are ignored, yet Elariok can be bothered to thumbs up a positive thread you make concerning Rifts 10th anniversary which he cant even be bothered to put a reminder in his phone about. What a joke.

    So yes, I do agree in this: Those other 4 games went down in a whimper. No one did as I suggest. Theres your proven results.

    If Rift is fine revenue wise then players blowing up the forums and holding back $$ would force improvements-REAL improvements. If revenue is bad then we shut down slightly earlier vs stalling the inevitable for a month (and peeps would save $$).

    You know in what situations boycotts and unions dont work? When not enough join them so theres no need for the company to change anything. So yes, Gamigo wont change anything. Players with attitudes and non- action like yours enable it. We've already proven words alone are meaningless. Both yours and mine. Actions are the ONLY thing that can improve the game, its playerbase, and true longevity. Or just argue and give in. We all know what side you sit on.
    Last edited by Wrastion; 04-07-2021 at 08:00 AM.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    Thats why you boycott early when acquisition still brings in decent revenue. Or boycott when revenue is still good, at any point in time. As to your own words, we dont know how much $$ Gamigo is bringing in. If they are bringing in decent revenue then no, as in a big no, would they simply shut Rift down if the players boycotted. They would add more focus on the game to appease the players in some fashion to continue the cash inflow. Its a business-its how this stuff works. Only an idiot would throw in the towel vs investing a little bit more back into a game to keep receiving a decent return.

    The reason these games never see Gamigo do what Im suggesting is due to players attitudes and lack of fighting back. Players with attitudes like yours. Words alone are pointless to these companies. Words + holding back $$$ speaks volumes to these companies.

    For every person like me there is someone like you whose accepted defeat and counters any group action to even try getting the game to a better place. Your own bug fix suggestion are ignored, yet Elariok can be bothered to thumbs up a positive thread you make concerning Rifts 10th anniversary which he cant even be bothered to put a reminder in his phone about. What a joke.

    So yes, I do agree in this: Those other 4 games went down in a whimper. No one did as I suggest. Theres your proven results.

    If Rift is fine revenue wise then players blowing up the forums and holding back $$ would force improvements-REAL improvements. If revenue is bad then we shut down slightly earlier vs stalling the inevitable for a month (and peeps would save $$).

    You know in what situations boycotts and unions dont work? When not enough join them so theres no need for the company to change anything. So yes, Gamigo wont change anything. Players with attitudes and non- action like yours enable it. We've already proven words alone are meaningless. Both yours and mine. Actions are the ONLY thing that can improve the game, its playerbase, and true longevity. Or just argue and give in. We all know what side you sit on.
    This pretty much sums it all up, and why Rift will bleed until dead. Which I'm thinking may happen shortly after Carnival.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    As to your own words, we dont know how much $$ Gamigo is bringing in.
    I don't know where you get that from. I post all the time about financial reports on Rift revenue under gamigo.

    In 2019, Rift was tied for 6th at 5% of gaming revenues, which would have been about $2.6 million. By comparison, Trove was in 1st place with 16% of total gaming revenue.

    In the 1st quarter of 2020, Rift was at 7th at 4% but gaming revenues were up sharply for the year so if that held up for the year, Rift would have earned about $1 million more than in 2019. See attached figure for other games.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    The reason these games never see Gamigo do what Im suggesting is due to players attitudes and lack of fighting back. Players with attitudes like yours. Words alone are pointless to these companies. Words + holding back $$$ speaks volumes to these companies.
    You talk about a boycott all the time but I have never seen you try to actually organize one or even advance a specific list of demands.

    Don't blame me for you not actually trying a boycott.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    Those other 4 games went down in a whimper. No one did as I suggest. Theres your proven results
    That players of the 4 canceled games did not mount a boycott is not proof that a boycott would have saved the games from cancellation.

    Do you know of any example where a player boycott of a video game forced the game's owner to improve the game?


    Quote Originally Posted by Wrastion View Post
    If Rift is fine revenue wise then players blowing up the forums and holding back $$ would force improvements-REAL improvements.
    That doesn't seem logical. If the boycott had close to 100% participation and revenue dropped to near zero, gamigo would not spend millions to improve a game that no one is playing. They would just shut it down.
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  13. #58
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    I’d imagine if Rift was one of Gamigo’s bigger money makers they might budge a little on appeasing players, but in the grand scheme, the game barely makes any money for them, and will make even less when Wizard101 is accounted for. Rehiring a development team would sink their profits in the toilet for who knows how long, so worst case scenario they shut the servers down if there is a boycott, or pass the IP onto another publisher who wants to buy it and give it a shot. I would hope the latter would happen.

    I am with Zornar on this one - the game is too far gone for Gamigo to be coerced with a boycott into creating more content.

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    Ugh can y'all stop living in fairytale land that 5 million dollars was a solid offer for a game that cost 100 million TO LAUNCH.

    I think if you let go of notions like that (as noble as they might seem especially to anyone that can't even fathom that amount of money full stop) it might be easier to move beyond even suggesting rude things like asking a company to basically DIAF when it costs YOU nothing and effects you in no way for them to keep this game going you no longer have to take part in if it doesn't suit you.

    That's it, nothing less and nothing more.

    C'mon why haven't y'all got better things to do yet if this makes you so unhappy? That's the real question and nothing to do with any game, gaming developer or any of its players.
    Last edited by Kiwi; 04-07-2021 at 11:35 PM.

  15. #60
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    I don't even think a boycott is appropriate for the Rift situation. Boycotts are usually to force a company to take an immediate action relating to a company policy, such as the 2019 boycott of Activision-Blizzard to get the company to reverse the ban of a professional Hearthstone player for criticizing China's suppression in Hong Kong.

    Getting gamigo to invest substantial sums for a new Rift expansion or other major improvements is a very different situation.

    A better tactic might be for fans of Rift to support the game and recruit new players. Increasing Rift's revenue percentage would strengthen its position

    From the 2020 revenue percentage by game figure I posted above, Rift was close to several other games ahead of it. Increasing Rift's revenue percentage from 4 to 8% would have moved it from 7th to 3rd place. Where are all those Rift whales when you need them?

    Rift's situation seems more analogous to a proposed cancellation of a favorite TV series where fans protest, sometimes in a novel way that garners headlines. For example, the Jericho TV series was cancelled after one season but fans got another season by mailing 20 tons of peanuts to CBS because a Jericho character had shouted "Nuts!" when asked to surrender the town.

    https://people.howstuffworks.com/cul...-shows.htm#pt3

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