+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 23
Like Tree34Likes

  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: PrancingTurtle Ė where itís at (and where it isnít)

  1. #1
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Hewi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    429

    Default PrancingTurtle Ė where itís at (and where it isnít)

    No tl;dr for this one, looking for feedback on the below. Good, bad or otherwise. Please read what I have to say first though before you pay PT out for all of the stuff it doesn’t do or didn’t get implemented.

    I started what’s now known as PrancingTurtle back in 2014 with the intention of using it internally within a couple of guilds to improve player performance. It quickly turned into something that needed to be used by the wider Rift community & so it was published early on in 2015.

    I hadn’t been developing a great deal in ASP.NET MVC at that point and PT was a learning exercise for me (and it shows, now.. it’s so outdated). Still, it has proven to be a useful tool for a huge chunk of time. I work full-time and so it was only ever able to receive my time “on the side”.

    In mid 2016, I started a university degree with a full-time workload, on top of my full-time work (I'm also married with kids, to give you an idea of how much free time I have). This reduced what time I had to play the game to pretty much zero as I had to focus on study. I retired from both raid groups (tanking for Coriolis, raid lead & all-rounder for Nefarious) as a result and the time I was able to throw at PT was just as sad as the amount of time I could spend raiding. That has persisted until now, as I have finally completed my degree.
    I’m aware that throughout this period of time there have been a whole bunch of things that have happened including parts of the site not working or becoming a manual process (like the mailer) and that sort of thing, but with the exception of the few things I set myself to do that I completely forgot about, I’ve tried to get most of the stuff sorted. I haven’t been able to do anywhere near as much to PT as I would have liked, but such is the nature of what I was undertaking.

    Anyway!

    The platform I built PT on, the technology that drives it and all of that lovely stuff has advanced a ridiculous amount over the last few years, as has the way I develop and deploy these sorts of projects. Where PT is hosted is not going to be viable for a lot longer, and the way I see it, I effectively have three options (mostly due to how much it costs):

    - Decommission the site sometime towards mid 2020,
    - Move the site as it stands to Azure/AWS and try and find some way of recouping the running costs, or
    - Spend a bunch of time revamping the tech behind PT so that when it’s deployed to Azure/AWS that it doesn’t cost an arm and a leg to run.

    Ultimately, I’ll be charged a lot more than I’m paying now for it to continue to run, and that’s where I’d love some feedback from the wider community.

    I’ve been doing a bit of work in the background over the last few weeks as it’s still a project I enjoy working on, there’s some fantastic data there and I still have all of the old archived logs, going back several years. It has also provided some priceless learning from my point of view in terms of efficient database design and structure when you think about trying to parse a ~1gb text file as fast as possible and then dumping that into a database, so that the user performing the action isn’t waiting for an hour for stuff to happen.

    Is PT still useful? Is it worth keeping up so that players can continue to log, kill stuff and then see how their performance stacks up against others? If the answer to this is yes, is there a monetary value that could be attached to it in such a way that I don’t continue to cough up cash for something that I can’t gauge the usefulness of? I’m not saying that I can’t be bothered or don’t want to do it, but having to pay additional costs for better cloud services is unavoidable. I’ve never charged a subscription and wanted to keep it free for everyone as long as possible, including not dumping advertisements all over the site. Hopefully, those that have used the site over the years have appreciated having access to it without having to pay.

    So. Ideas? Thoughts? Have at it. Would love to hear what you all have to say, particularly around whether anyone would be willing to contribute any amount to keep the project running.

    Hewi
    Last edited by Hewi; 11-26-2019 at 11:31 PM.
    NA#1 T-Rex. One of the token aussies for -Lemme Smash-
    RIP Coriolis.

    PrancingTurtle online log parser

  2. #2
    Ascendant Holyroller12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    2,410

    Default

    I know there's people that still use it, but the acquisition on top of the already lacking content releases prior to that (specifically raids and dungeons) has caused a big hit to the raiding community. There's no current roadmap that any of us (players) know about so it's difficult to say whether or not it's worth keeping up at your own personal cost just for the handful of people that still use it.

    I will admit that I don't personally use it, but I have had plenty of people from my guild post their own parses and place our guild on the site for that reason. That being said, in my own personal opinon I would say if there isn't a new raid (even a recycled one) by mid 2020 if that's when you decide to move it / take it down then just leave it down at that point if you don't want to waste anymore money. Other than that I would maybe create a patreon and people will either donate or they won't if they want to see the site carry on.
    Last edited by Holyroller12; 11-27-2019 at 12:01 AM.

    (70) Holyroller | (70) Kelten | (70) Irohh | (70) Hoehenheim | (70)Avattar@Deepwood

    Gamigo's Acqisition of Trion Words: Everything we know so far

  3. #3
    Champion of Telara
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,255

    Default

    Here are a few Google Analytic Statistics from https://rift-stats.s3.eu-central-1.a...com/index.html
    The statistics for the site are collected since July 2019.





    The number of active uploaders has dropped dramatically, so the traffic should not be so high anymore. Maybe you will find someone in the community who would host the site for free.

  4. #4
    Prophet of Telara Shas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    1,118

    Thumbs up

    First of all:

    Thanks for the turtle and this amazing tool!
    I'm deeply impressed how your thing there handles gbs of text and generates interactive statistics within seconds.
    It ever was an absolute overdue to have this fanservice which grew fundamental to the game, backed by trion.

    Since the ingame leaderboards are utterly useless, where did people go to check the result of all the sweaty progress?
    Defenitly prancing&topofrift

    There are said minor issues with pt struggling on recognising the class behind certein builds, still it is a primary tool to git gud. I used it to sync specs, rotations, group setups and mechanic-timings on the ambitious bis runs with it's data.

    Getting newer people into the uploading practise is a little milestone. Without more 'mainstream' popularity and useability it's a great toy for the ones who care but those are propably a handful of people reflecting through this.

    PT as toxic elitist playground?

    I think many people saw PT as a place for sweaty tryhards to show off. This might occour for some, but still it is a great tool to help your guild progress through stuff. PT analisys is defenitly more efficient than ring box farming and hoping, +80 strg will do the trick.
    Rift is 1/3 rd gear 1/3 rd spec and 1/3 timing. Your timing will greatly improve, recording youtself and taking a minute for statistics (basics in esports).
    Sounds like alot to do? How does continues wiping to unknown reasons sounds like ;p

    Maintaining it for who?

    People who care get a little rare lately. I stumbled upon a bunch of never-seen-before guilds. I don't know how long it takes them to get introduced to tools such as pt.

    The statistics by Bamu are interesting and it seems like there is still a reasonable amount of traffic.

    The teasing of *something* and uncertainity on how faceroll it might turn out hurts.

    PT in 2020?

    People speak of *Returning players*
    I met Suree and Hurri from Transcendent 65 who defenitly used such tools. I'm curious if a little bos can keep them engaged - i doubt it.

    If there aren't changes towards absolute basic broken mechanics, there will most likely not be any more than T1 dungeons.
    We are close to the point of no return and the odds are good for Rift to ultimately become less than a shadow.

    The day PT closes, i personaly lose a massive aspect that keeps me doing something in Rift. Can't speak for others.



    In case someone hasen't seen it yet:

    ,,Prancing Trutle'' - upload a zip file of your recordet combatlog text and the site will Generate graphs and statistics:
    https://prancingturtle.com/

    Here is an example of one of the ways to interact with the data: (Highlight abilities)
    https://prancingturtle.com/Encounter...ity&filter=all

    ,,The Spreadsheet'' - taking those sessions and sorts them into lists:
    https://rift-stats.s3.eu-central-1.a...com/index.html

    ,,Top of Rift'' - Tracker for the World and Shardfirst race:
    http://www.topofrift.com/
    Last edited by Shas; 11-27-2019 at 08:53 PM.

  5. #5
    Champion of Telara
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,255

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shas View Post
    The day, PT closes, i personaly lose a massive aspect that keeps me doing something in Rift. Can't speak for others.
    After over 2 years with the same raid content, the leaderboards like prancingturtle and trying to set new records were the only remaining interesting aspect in Rift for me. But that's no longer enough to maintain my interest in Rift. However, should there be any new raid content I will certainly come back to Rift again and still hope that I can compete with other players and guilds on prancingturtle. Without prancingturtle a major motivation for Rift would be lost to me.

  6. #6
    Ascendant Linolea's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Perth, WA, Oz
    Posts
    2,009

    Default

    Thanks Hewi for the great site. As a semi-retired (I got dragged back in last Sunday >.<) Nef raider I always found the site interesting and informative. I have a penchant for stats, to say the least. That said, and as others said above, the cost is not justified given the lack of new content (i.e. none) and no promise of any on the horizon. Save the money for Xmas prezzies for the kids ... or better yet the missus or yourself >.>
    De techniek staat voor niets
    **Rift Video Compendium**<---this be old and dates back to alpha

  7. #7
    Rift Chaser
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    345

    Default Thank you for all your hard work... but....

    Hey Hewi-

    Thank you for everything you put into Prancing Turtle. My old RL used to use your tool faithfully, and I (as GL) kept an eye on stats to see if we could improve player performance. After SFP came out, things in my guild went south fast- the raiders left, then the slow bleed of regular players occurred. I think that is much the same story with many guilds. I still pop on to Rift now and then- and check on the handful of guild members that still log on. I have so many great memories of this game- but my nostalgia is not reality. The player base is not what it was. There is no new raiding content, nor do I think there will be. There is still value in many things in Rift- but not new raids. I personally do not feel you have a good return on investment by keeping up your server (unless you can find someone to host it for free). I personally closed down my Rift guild website and Vent server. No one had used the Vent in over a year, and my traffic on the website was minimal. Maybe 2-10 hits a month. I love this game and what potential it has- but I am a realist. I moved to raiding in another game and several guildies followed me there- others went to different games. I am enjoying myself in that other game with fresh content, new raids, challenging dungeons, etc. I sorely wish Rift would have kept pace. It honestly had the best raiding in Vanilla and SL I have ever experienced in gaming. I am grateful for all the good times- and for tools like the one you designed. But I do not think there is a future for it in Rift.
    Last edited by Andracleric; 11-28-2019 at 07:20 AM.

  8. #8
    Champion
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    502

    Default

    Echoing what others said, thank you for PT and the time you put into it I found it useful and valuable. Sadly, Rift is not worth anyone's time anymore. I wish it were otherwise.
    Sutra@faeblight
    Mage since 2011
    Leader, Dawn of Terror

  9. #9
    RIFT Fan Site Operator
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    4,941

    Default

    Hey Hewi

    Good to see you about and congrats on completing your degree.

    It sadly seems the way folks are already saying but am I on the right track that you have until Mid- March to decide?

    If so I wondered if you considered putting a donation plug-in on your site for folks to contribute under the premise that what they donate will do one of two things - continue your service or contribute to costs already provided? You could put transaction info (without any private info) on a spreadsheet or your site for transparency.

    Might be a little tricky, not sure never done that before.

    If we do have until mid-March you have 3 months'ish to decide, maybe Gamigo might provide some new content worthy of Prancing Turtle news by then? However I'm not very optimistic on that unfortunately so deciding to keep this running based on the content already in game is your decision to make if it's worth it but maybe let us know costs and such and maybe we can all brainstorm with you?

    Cheers Hewi and all the best to you and your fam.
    Last edited by Kiwi; 11-30-2019 at 08:02 AM.

  10.   This is the last Rift Team post in this thread.   #10
    Rift Team
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    68

    Default

    Hi hewi,

    You can PM me a reply if you wish. How much does it cost to host? What needs does it have technology wise to host it?

  11. #11
    Champion of Telara
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,255

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDataDude View Post
    What needs does it have technology wise to host it?
    Overview of the technologies used:
    https://github.com/hewisaurus/PrancingTurtle
    Last edited by Bamul; 11-30-2019 at 09:02 AM.

  12. #12
    Ascendant Holyroller12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    2,410

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDataDude View Post
    Hi hewi,

    You can PM me a reply if you wish. How much does it cost to host? What needs does it have technology wise to host it?
    Does your interest in it possibly mean content is coming?

    (70) Holyroller | (70) Kelten | (70) Irohh | (70) Hoehenheim | (70)Avattar@Deepwood

    Gamigo's Acqisition of Trion Words: Everything we know so far

  13. #13
    Xly
    Xly is offline
    Rift Chaser
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    376

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Holyroller12 View Post
    Does your interest in it possibly mean content is coming?
    lol...

    @Hewi and Bamu:

    Thx for PT and "the spreadsheet" Both kept our raid running for longer than it should have, but it was fun while it lasted.

  14. #14
    Ascendant Holyroller12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    2,410

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xly View Post
    lol...
    Might as well ask Į\_(ツ)_/Į

    (70) Holyroller | (70) Kelten | (70) Irohh | (70) Hoehenheim | (70)Avattar@Deepwood

    Gamigo's Acqisition of Trion Words: Everything we know so far

  15. #15
    Champion Ambrodel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    569

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Holyroller12 View Post
    Does your interest in it possibly mean content is coming?
    It's probably more likely that Gamigo sees the interest in this thread and thinks that by hosting it, we will be happy.
    Quote Originally Posted by AnneBonny View Post
    We still want to give you a small hint: communication, support and entertainment are our three main concerns and you can count on some changes and improvements in this direction.
    We are all gamers and we understand how important transparency and open-mindedness are
    First lies told by Gamigo

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts