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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Gamigo = scammer...

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artewig View Post
    I'm not familiar with giropay, but it seems pretty straightforward. I am curious what it is that would prevent the refund. Is Giropay the payment method used in game or is it through another third party?
    Giro is an older payment system method which was originally used mainly by the European postal systems as a low end, secure method for transferring money between a payer and a payee. The original model is built somewhat like a current day debit card system, except the payments are "pushed" by the payer, not pulled by the "payee", making them operate like a debit, but are actuated like a credit payment.

    GiroPay is basically then, the online version of the older Giro systems found all over Europe, back in the day, and based in Germany. It is not a proprietary system at all, as all Giro systems fall under the financial laws of the countries where they operate. The major advantage to users? Bank details are NEVER shown to the merchants receiving funds from a user.

    The red herring? GiroPay does NOT support chargebacks.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadManAcrossTheWater View Post
    Giro is an older payment system method which was originally used mainly by the European postal systems as a low end, secure method for transferring money between a payer and a payee. The original model is built somewhat like a current day debit card system, except the payments are "pushed" by the payer, not pulled by the "payee", making them operate like a debit, but are actuated like a credit payment.

    GiroPay is basically then, the online version of the older Giro systems found all over Europe, back in the day, and based in Germany. It is not a proprietary system at all, as all Giro systems fall under the financial laws of the countries where they operate. The major advantage to users? Bank details are NEVER shown to the merchants receiving funds from a user.

    The red herring? GiroPay does NOT support chargebacks.
    You are too wise for this forum, stop posting...or I will get my lawyer involved.

    I'll now just go wear my baseball cap indoors and feed my dog with KFC, thou everyone knows you can't feed chicken bones to dogs...
    Last edited by Ieatacid; 02-28-2019 at 03:31 AM.

  3.   This is the last Rift Team post in this thread.   #33
    Former Employee Liluri's Avatar
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    Hi!

    I understand your frustration, Zyra and I will be happy to do all that is within our powers to assist you.
    Feel free to send me your ticket numbers.

    L

  4. #34
    Telaran discosoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyra View Post
    Hello.

    Discussing issues like this on the forum is not helpful for your case. If you have issues with a case of yours in a ticket, feel free to reply to your ticket or create a new one if closed, as it might have been an issue with the process.
    So he can wait another few months?

  5. #35
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    I really don't understand what everyone expects from Gamigo.

    They bought a company and it had several games. One of which was a dying gamed called Rift. The population was shrinking, there was no/little content for end gamers and the community was mostly extremely toxic in game and on the forums.

    They were under no obligation to us the customer to offer us shiny new content or to even offer us a timeline of when or if they might provide new content or simply shut the thing down.

    They did indeed try to resolve tickets, but lets be honest there was no way in hell a handful of people thrown at what must be an endless list of tickets would ever resolve them all in any sort of time frame.

    They have offered us a new dungeon..albiet it isn't the best by a country mile but at least someone has done something and we definitely did not get a new dungeon under trion in any shape or form.

    I for one don't hold anything against Gamigo for being dumped this elitist bunch of whiners. Instead I say well done for even offering the olive branches you have so far. It's bad enough having to listen to the ******bag dozen in crosschat all day long but having to listen to it here as well is just ridiculous but what can you do.

    Flame me to hell and back I really dont give a flying gazoo about the raid elite gods, I do however thank the precious few we have in Gmaigo for even taking the time they do to do whatever they can to keep this great game alive.

    We will log in one day and all this will be gone. To think of all the thousands of hours I have put into this incredibly awesome game to be just gone in a heartbeat is something I don't ever wish to experience but for the love of god give them time to get people to do something or they may well just say screw this bunch and move to another game.

    Kudos to our CM's and I definitely don't envy your task ahead of you if you do indeed plan to revive the game of Rift as it will be one gigantic job indeed.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by andysodandy2 View Post
    I really don't understand what everyone expects from Gamigo.

    They were under no obligation to us the customer to offer us shiny new content or to even offer us a timeline of when or if they might provide new content or simply shut the thing down.

    I for one don't hold anything against Gamigo for being dumped this elitist bunch of whiners.
    A.k.a. "I love supporting a dubious effort"?

    Also, are you suggesting the company that acquired this online game has no obligation to a built-in audience consisting of (many) Patron and/or spent-hundreds-of-dollars-over-the-years-on-Rift players?

    Anyone with realistic, normal expectations of the new owners are simply "elitist whiners"?

    It's going to be 5 full months since Gamigo acquisition very soon.
    Ask yourself what you've seen and heard thus far.

    It's perfectly acceptable to remain simultaneously hopeful and critical of the effort thus far.
    This Gamigo-apologist approach helps nobody, not even Gamigo - learning the ropes as they are.

    "They were under no obligation" - Well, yes, when they were weighing the merits and requirements of sustaining Rift - before purchasing Trion's properties, they really SHOULD have understood the kind of specific obligations that come with acquiring this game.

    That's what you do. It's kinda helpful in terms of player retention during transition.

    *[TL;DR: Unlike the topic header, I wouldn't go so far as to say that Gamigo are 'scammers' - but they clearly didn't come as prepared as they should have].

    Namely, Gamigo elected to discard a massive percentage of the Rift dev team as opposed to bringing them over (think: when Sony got rid of SOE/allowing senior staff buy-out at a bargain, a sizeable portion of existing teams for each game were fully retained at Daybreak).

    Well, maybe I'm comparing apples to oranges here. Gamigo is more of a retirement villa for almost-maintenance mode F2P games, while Daybreak is a rather traditional US-based MMO company that knows its longtime EQ/EQ2/Planetside/etc. audience quite well, plus they also publish games to console.

    Nonetheless, many MMO/IP sell-offs/hand-offs have been handled better by the buyer compared to Gamigo here, certainly with better communication and vision, and a seamless support transition.

  7. #37
    Rift Disciple Razorfyst's Avatar
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    Anyone ever notice how much self entitlement players in Rift seem to believe they possess always whining about what a company who acquired a broken company that could have simply shut down and told us all to go f ourselves

    the fact that Gamigo gives any of you the time of day is beyond my understanding, if you don't like them go the F away they didnt buy the company with any burden of indebtedness to you, all your ranting and whining is due to the actions of Trion, go figure out where they went because they and they alone are the only parties legally responsible for anything you did before Trion disappeared, and be damn certain that Gamigo covered every legal base it could possibly find to indemnify themselves again reprisals of any kind whatsoever until they had a stable handle of the circumstances at hand

    feel priviledged if you must that they even recognize your existence, I was 15k$ into Trion before Gamigo and pretty sure they barely noticed me when I lit them up considering how many others like me there were, none of you are unique or special in their eyes and short of being a direct investing party on the corporate side of their company hold zero weight in any influence over the actions they take

    knowing from Burnlogics posts how CS handles these things either find another company who does exactly the same but hasn't been sold recently... only one I can think of is Blizzard... or accept the fact that in 2009 4 times as many MMOs tried entering the market than in all previous years combined and the player base was spread so thin outside of WoW that even EQ nearly folded in the failings of SOE

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razorfyst View Post
    ...if you don't like them go the F away...
    Funny how people still use this phrase, especially seeing how well it ended for Trion when the majority of the players took that advice some time ago...

    Hint: the more people play a game, the more stable that game is. Telling people to go away, just because you cannot handle their opinion or attitude is nonsensical.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razorfyst View Post
    a company who acquired a broken company that could have simply shut down and told us all to go f ourselves
    Which is what they should have from the beginning, if they didn't have plans to do something with this game. So far we've heard nothing that makes me think they DO have plans, so from my point of view, they're just attempting to milk people like you without providing anything in return. Not even a proper closure to the era of Rift, with a complete server shutdown. Nope, it's just being dragged out as long as possible before they do anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razorfyst View Post
    feel priviledged if you must that they even recognize your existence
    HA! If they actually did that, we would at least have some communication with the team. We basically have zero right now, so where is it they recognize our existance?

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razorfyst View Post
    how much self entitlement players in Rift seem to believe they possess always whining about what a company who acquired a broken company that could have simply shut down and told us all to go f ourselves
    Says the guy who:
    I was 15k$ into Trion before Gamigo..."
    Holy smokes man, to spend 15 thousand dollars on Rift -- a game that was run by - in your own words - a "broken company"!

    You are totally justified to any and all form of self-entitlement. Have at it, assuredly.
    That, or they need to name a new raid boss after you or something!

    I gave them retail and every possible month of subscription until free-to-play, all expansions, a smattering of Patrons and 2 or 3 small bits since then. Need to keep that spending under control, per game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razorfyst View Post
    "...the fact that Gamigo gives any of you the time of day is beyond my understanding, if you don't like them go the F away they didnt buy the company with any burden of indebtedness to you
    You're probably right - most of us are fish or dolphins... they have a burden of indebtedness towards whales like you! Geezus.

    No seriously, in the realities of troubled MMOs, you've helped to keep the game afloat while Trion shopped a buyer and prepared severance -- thus allowing Gamigo the chance to snap up the IPs and assets for an undoubtedly favorable price, and allowing Trion to end its tenure correctly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razorfyst View Post
    be damn certain that Gamigo covered every legal base it could possibly find to indemnify themselves again reprisals of any kind whatsoever until they had a stable handle of the circumstances at hand. feel priviledged if you must that they even recognize your existence
    My, what high standards you have for game developers! Possibly accurate, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razorfyst View Post
    none of you are unique or special in their eyes and...hold zero weight in any influence over the actions they take.
    I'm actually less cynical than that; I can see they hired or assigned like 2 or 3 CMs here, to pop in from time to time, so they're probably relaying some player feedback to operations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razorfyst View Post
    accept the fact that in 2009 4 times as many MMOs tried entering the market than in all previous years combined and the player base was spread so thin outside of WoW that even EQ nearly folded in the failings of SOE
    What's the bottom-line to that point re: 2009? Rift went live on March 1st, 2011.

    It actually arrived in a sweet spot - a perfect short term bubble, in terms of MMO activity.

    WoW - which had already been in service for 6+ years when Rift launched - continued to prove that subscriptions were viable, and Trion was able to develop a full-featured MMORPG with constant support thanks to a retail/digital+subscription model, soon millions of players jumped in, and Rift enjoyed very good press coverage and reviews.

    Rift absolutely tore out of the gate in that sweet spot, but Guild Wars 2 arrived 16 months later and started to erode the base, one year after GW2 it was FF XIV (re)launched to much acclaim - further eroding the base, a mere 8 months after FF RR, Elder Scrolls Online arrives, and then essentially after 5-6 years on the market, with its own F2P model about 2 years into service, Rift collided headlong with free-to-play becoming massively propagated (with F2P models everywhere, and often retrofitted onto older MMOs) -- further eroding the base, and the time and money spent in Rift.

    It was a sh!tstorm for Rift to navigate.

    And 8 years later, March 2011 - March 2019, here's Rift in the hands of Gamigo.

    Spoiler!


    Maybe the recent era of Rift didn't deserve better than this fate,
    but Rift does deserve better.

  11. #41
    Ascendant Artewig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razorfyst View Post
    Anyone ever notice how much self entitlement players in Rift seem to believe they possess always whining about what a company who acquired a broken company that could have simply shut down and told us all to go f ourselves

    the fact that Gamigo gives any of you the time of day is beyond my understanding, if you don't like them go the F away they didnt buy the company with any burden of indebtedness to you, all your ranting and whining is due to the actions of Trion, go figure out where they went because they and they alone are the only parties legally responsible for anything you did before Trion disappeared, and be damn certain that Gamigo covered every legal base it could possibly find to indemnify themselves again reprisals of any kind whatsoever until they had a stable handle of the circumstances at hand

    feel priviledged if you must that they even recognize your existence, I was 15k$ into Trion before Gamigo and pretty sure they barely noticed me when I lit them up considering how many others like me there were, none of you are unique or special in their eyes and short of being a direct investing party on the corporate side of their company hold zero weight in any influence over the actions they take

    knowing from Burnlogics posts how CS handles these things either find another company who does exactly the same but hasn't been sold recently... only one I can think of is Blizzard... or accept the fact that in 2009 4 times as many MMOs tried entering the market than in all previous years combined and the player base was spread so thin outside of WoW that even EQ nearly folded in the failings of SOE

    It's not self entitlement. Gamigo acquired the game completely aware of what they were purchasing. Rift players are customers. If you walk into a store with the intention of buying something and most of the shelves are empty due to a changeover, you might be upset. The company failed to provide their service. I'm sure, if asked, management would be happy to explain and apologize for the inconvenience and most likely have a rough idea of when they will be able to provide their service again. This is no different at all. Customers are wondering when Gamigo will be able to provide their service. It is not at all unreasonable to be frustrated with how things are progressing. Gamigo's job when they took over was to communicate to the remaining player-base that things were going to get better. Given Trion's history, many of those remaining players are skeptical, and rightfully so.


    Gamigo needs to earn the respect and business of the customers. If I don't like what is being done with a game that I choose to spend my time in, I am going to do two things. First, I am going to stop putting money into it. I am not going to spend money on something that I don't feel is worth my money. Second, I am going to speak up and advocate for what I think needs to be changed. As a customer who cares, I want to do whatever I can to improve the game I play. So I'll post to the forums and make myself heard. As someone who has worked in customer service for years, negative feedback is the most important feedback you can get. Praise is great, but no company is perfect. If your customers aren't speaking up, then how are they supposed to know what needs to be fixed? Trion spent too much time telling players to go elsewhere and not enough time listening to players. Now, a massive percentage of the player-base is gone and from the perspective of those speaking out, Gamigo is headed down the same path.


    This post here exemplifies why Brasse was disliked by so many on the forums. The continuous rejection of constructive criticism and feedback where representatives of the company tell players that the company has no interest in hearing negative feedback and if they don't like it, they should just leave. People speak up because they care. Stop telling them their opinion isn't worth ****.


    Quote Originally Posted by TrionBrasse View Post
    This year's theme has definitely been one of addressing QOL (Quality of Life) issues on Live, as Dev has explained in previous letters. That has been the case to date, as promised, and will continue.


    We appreciate feedback and track it carefully. Development teams have the challenge of balancing personnel resources, player wishes (for many, many different playstyles) as well as the needs of the game progression and evolution. Games, like people, have a life cycle. Some might claim that I am in maintenance mode too, but I plan to carry on for another 30 years or so, albeit at a slower pace. =P

    Every player will evaluate the fun and challenge of a game and will act accordingly. Stay, or explore another world instead. Repeatedly posting the same thing will not add to the quality of feedback for Dev.

    Brasse

    Quote Originally Posted by Artewig View Post
    I left this game months ago and I still cannot understand your lackadaisical attitude towards losing customers. You are the Director of Community Relations. You serve as a public representative of Trion Worlds. You continually mock the concerns of players with your sarcastic responses, while continuing to reassure players that you are perfectly fine with them leaving.

    And guess what? They leave.

    That shouldn't be okay. You should want people to play your game and not someone else's. You should be concerned that your players, some of whom have played since beta, are losing interest in the game. Yes, it happens. Yes, players losing interest is a common occurrence in MMOs. Players come and go. But you are the Director of Community Relations and yet your perpetual public stance is that Trion Worlds is okay with this. That Trion Worlds does not care if their players leave for other games and companies. Because Trion Worlds does not care about the individuals. When is the last time you went out of your way to make a player feel wanted? See, change happens by large-scale outcry, yes. But that large-scale outcry comes from the individuals. If you ignore the individuals, if you tell them they can leave, they will.

    I'm not talking about Trion's development resources or time. I'm talking about your public approach. How you present Trion Worlds. Stop working against the players. Stop meeting every concern with a blanket excuse paired with a sarcastic comment. Stop dismissing legitimate concerns and most importantly, stop telling your customers they can leave.
    Last edited by Artewig; 03-07-2019 at 03:53 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by TrionBrasse
    We are absolutely a service industry and you're only as good as your last contact with the customer.

  12. #42
    Rift Disciple Razorfyst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artewig View Post
    This post here exemplifies why Brasse was disliked by so many on the forums. The continuous rejection of constructive criticism and feedback where representatives of the company tell players that the company has no interest in hearing negative feedback and if they don't like it, they should just leave. People speak up because they care. Stop telling them their opinion isn't worth ****.
    when I see criticism that is close to constructive and less accusatory and hostile and insulting I will let you know, the last constructive criticism I saw and the last time I spent money on this game was under Trion

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razorfyst View Post
    when I see criticism that is close to constructive and less accusatory and hostile and insulting I will let you know, the last constructive criticism I saw and the last time I spent money on this game was under Trion
    You seriously have some split personality issues, your old forum account Challengere which was banned before has so many complicated posts, and your actions right now with this forum handle makes it more complicated even more complicated than universal paradoxes, seeing that you are having healthy income, I friendly suggest you to visit some psychologist, if I was wrong about your income and financial status, please just leave your information to contact and I'm willingly helping you to send funds for this matter.

    Hope you will become a normal person soon.
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  14. #44
    Rift Disciple Razorfyst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aileen View Post
    You seriously have some split personality issues, your old forum account Challengere which was banned before has so many complicated posts, and your actions right now with this forum handle makes it more complicated even more complicated than universal paradoxes, seeing that you are having healthy income, I friendly suggest you to visit some psychologist, if I was wrong about your income and financial status, please just leave your information to contact and I'm willingly helping you to send funds for this matter.

    Hope you will become a normal person soon.
    lol I am a retired disabled veteran, I hope I never become normal, far as money, I choose to live small so I can afford plenty of entertainment, but small doesn't mean i am not comfortable if you want to help anyone like me go help out reach centers that assist disabled and wounded veterans who got released from the military under negative circumstances that cannot recieve what the gov't has allotted us for our sacrifice.

    I get it I come off pretty crazy in these forums, I just don't sugar coat anything to make sure someone else likes my opinion, I express my own personal stand point based on where I come from as a gamer and honestly don't expect there to be anyone out there who can relate, I simply know what it's like to sit around expecting things from a system, program or company and not getting it and having people tell me how stupid it is to come at them with such expectations and realized that I am reading the same attitudes I have been corrected on in life here everyday

    I don't expect anyone to listen or believe anything I say, I simply say it in case someone even if only one person reflects on themselves and reassesses how the percieve what they are so upset about, the VA and the US Army have never changed their ways for me pointing out their flaws or even showing them their own regulations, it was seeking out the entities that had the power to affect change like in my case congressmen that got things to work and I don't know who that would be in our situation or if there even is someone capable of such but that is who we should be talking to not making WoW players look better behaved

  15. #45
    Champion of Telara aileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razorfyst View Post
    lol I am a retired disabled veteran, I hope I never become normal, far as money, I choose to live small so I can afford plenty of entertainment, but small doesn't mean i am not comfortable if you want to help anyone like me go help out reach centers that assist disabled and wounded veterans who got released from the military under negative circumstances that cannot recieve what the gov't has allotted us for our sacrifice.

    I get it I come off pretty crazy in these forums, I just don't sugar coat anything to make sure someone else likes my opinion, I express my own personal stand point based on where I come from as a gamer and honestly don't expect there to be anyone out there who can relate, I simply know what it's like to sit around expecting things from a system, program or company and not getting it and having people tell me how stupid it is to come at them with such expectations and realized that I am reading the same attitudes I have been corrected on in life here everyday

    I don't expect anyone to listen or believe anything I say, I simply say it in case someone even if only one person reflects on themselves and reassesses how the percieve what they are so upset about, the VA and the US Army have never changed their ways for me pointing out their flaws or even showing them their own regulations, it was seeking out the entities that had the power to affect change like in my case congressmen that got things to work and I don't know who that would be in our situation or if there even is someone capable of such but that is who we should be talking to not making WoW players look better behaved
    Well don't get me wrong, I just try to be friendly, since the way of your thinking is surely abnormal, I hope you didn't retire due to PTSD but being ex-soldier and possibly no business background, the way of your thinking is surely having logical flaws.

    Companies shouldn't rely on big spenders (aka whales), when companies start relying to big spenders and start ignoring regular customers, they usually start to crumble, this is what's the case for games specially P2W MMOs.

    You know there is a sentence called "Quality over Quantity", this is used for selling stuff which is reflecting opposite for buying in other words "Quantity over Quality", what I mean by that, when you release quality stuff and reaching more people instead of limited quantity stuff to "quality" people, you will start earning more.

    That's why trends on any area changing, whoever could guess that myspace going to be down and losing it's position as top social media? Who could even guess that facebook becoming what it's today?

    This simple article easily points how amazon become successful and while their areas completely different it still easily show what could trion (and any other company) do instead of going almost bankrupt and become better than what they were.

    I could offer easy 20 25m to gamigo for RIFT but it doesn't worth that much and they know it too, they just value the database (user/customer data) over any other stuff but for me it wasn't that much worth since trion ruined that reputation so I didn't insist offering more than 5m, all I wanted was reviving game even thought about making it open source If I was successfully being able to deal with gamigo.

    You could ask me are you nuts? Why you throw away 5m when you were going to make it open source, because I loved this game, it's one of the few games I truly enjoyed while it lasted and it saddens me more than anyone to seeing current state of it, but If I was in your way of thinking, would spend tons of money on RIFT store to just let them think game was doing successful, which is wrong.

    And from what I saw (via private servers/sandboxed servers for any game) mostly we players bring more relative, more fun, more logical stuff to games than your typical designer, I do not blame designers because they do this job for salary and they listen directives of their managers but when people do stuff for just enjoying and fun results always better than people who just do it for money.

    I always said that on this forum when you take "Massively" from MMORPG and make it MORPG or w/e you could call, all fun will gone, it's so desperate to see the online numbers of the game.

    Prime really give them nice opportunity but they let it slip from their hands.

    It's always saddening me to see people talking like its players fault to what game become.

    NO! It's easily managements fault, lack of visions, lack of ideas, releasing half-baked content, releasing unfinished expansion, smack talking to players on livestreams and forums etc. When they do not have any player to serve the game, it surely gonna die.

    It's so lovely to see people still thinking RIFT is having relative things to keep players entertained, sorry but only dimensioneers enjoying the game, PVP players left the game, PVE players left the game and I do not classify them as hardcore, casual or semi-hardcore for both PVP and PVE, I mean all.

    Only few people still trying to do same raid for almost 1.5 years, and they are still hyping for non relevant dungeon release which you can easily duo or even solo it with full T2 gear (which is almost everyone in the game having)
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