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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Legendary Hit Removal: Explanation Requested

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    Ascendant Holyroller12's Avatar
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    Default Legendary Hit Removal: Explanation Requested

    So myself and many others are wondering what the reasoning is behind removing legendary hit. It's been bugged out for a long time and has been hit and miss (no pun intended) as to whether or not it was actually on during raids and now it's 100% been removed. There's a few questions I have and I'm sure others will chime in with their own as well:

    - Will future class balancing be done around hybridization? Warrior, Primalist and Cleric tanks don't particularly have useful hybrids which makes the reason for removing it seem a bit strange unless the goal is to balance around that idea going forward, but that leads me into the next question.

    - Do you plan to have dedicated class devs again? It was stated by keyens a long time ago that part of the reason for legendary hit and focusing more on 61 point builds in general was that hybrids were just too much work to balance and this was especially true with him being the only dev doing that work when he was around. If you're not going to have dedicated class devs like you did in vanilla then it's hard to imagine why this decision was made.

    - The whole balancing act seems like it would trickle down which leads me to ask: Will other systems affected by balance follow suite? Fragments, Eternal procs/weapons ect.

    That all being said, I do hope we get some communication especially since we've had very little before and even after the acquisition.

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    Another question is whether it was just the legendary hits that were removed? In particular 2nd boss in Bastion. The red bubble around the vindicator isn't technically a legendary hit, but acts like one anyway. Was that reduced as well? Having the offtank be some kind of hybrid while still being able to take the vindicator would certainly be useful.
    Quote Originally Posted by TrionBrasse View Post
    Accept that the egregious and obvious mistake you want fixed may be implemented by design and may not be a mistake at all.
    If we see it as an egregious and obvious mistake, maybe there should be more communication to tell us that it is not?
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    I'm worried about balance going forwards, but excited for the short term possibility to try hybrids as a way to make the 2 year old raid interesting. Longer term I am more concerned about this change.

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    We as playerbase don't need any explanation, everything is in the patchnotes:

    Raids: In preparation for future content releases, and to encourage more hybridization amongst tanks in raids, we have removed Legendary Hits from bosses in Bastion of Steel, Tartaric Depths and Intrepid Rise of the Phoenix.
    So they have the manpower to tune all future content releases not only around the standard Tank-Heal-Support-DD 10man setup, now also including houndreds of hybrids with just a few points into a tank soul!

    As we have seen in the last few months, if something brakes it simple getting disabled instead of being fixed... no matter if abilities or raid encounters.
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    The part that made me take notice was the mention of "preparation for future content releases." Does Rift now have developers to develop content? Will it be new content? Will it be rehashed content, like Intrepids? Will it be seasonal "flip a switch" content, like Autumn Harvest? At least from the fact that it's a change to a combat mechanic we know it won't be fake content, like dimensions and other fluff.

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    Ascendant Holyroller12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigerhawkT3 View Post
    The part that made me take notice was the mention of "preparation for future content releases." Does Rift now have developers to develop content? Will it be new content? Will it be rehashed content, like Intrepids? Will it be seasonal "flip a switch" content, like Autumn Harvest? At least from the fact that it's a change to a combat mechanic we know it won't be fake content, like dimensions and other fluff.
    I think it's more so just planning ahead (roadmap) for what they want/aim to do with content in the future. First half is still likely going to be short term projects as mentioned prior.
    Last edited by Holyroller12; 02-06-2019 at 02:28 PM.

    (70) Holyroller | (70) Kelten | (70) Irohh | (70) Hoehenheim | (70)Avattar@Deepwood

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    Rift Disciple Shas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holyroller12 View Post
    - Will future class balancing be done around hybridization? Warrior, Primalist and Cleric tanks don't particularly have useful hybrids [...]
    Lolwut? Justicar+Druid life st dmg/ justicar druid tankpet solotankswap, Jus+cabba cc, Justicar cleansetank, 'the taunting defiler', Primalist 2mil hps tank, prim mystic tank, Prim berzerker dpsT, WarrManugo, Warr ChanterVK, taunting Lib, (oclib) , literaly a taunting Shaman. Need to define 'Tank' it seems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shas View Post
    Lolwut? Justicar+Druid life st dmg/ justicar druid tankpet solotankswap, Jus+cabba cc, Justicar cleansetank, 'the taunting defiler', Primalist 2mil hps tank, prim mystic tank, Prim berzerker dpsT, WarrManugo, Warr ChanterVK, taunting Lib, (oclib) , literaly a taunting Shaman. Need to define 'Tank' it seems.
    They should introduce a Mega Hard tier of raid difficulty with new loot, and the bosses use Epic Legendary hits! Then you populate the Rift Store with $19.99 armor baubles featuring Epic Legendary Hit resistance stats! The only way to get those stats!

    The game will be kept alive by raiding tanks!

    Guilds will pool their money together to outfit their tanks so they can survive boss hits in the Mega Hard versions of incredibly old raids!

    Eureka!

    (I'm sorry, a slow and cynical Sunday it seems).

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    Telaran Razorfyst's Avatar
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    wouldn't 100,000,000,000,000 dmg hits that Azranel in BoS qualify as Legendary? that hit is what the legendary hit defense skills were meant for which if I have read every last legendary description correctly now does not seem to be in the wording anymore to relay the idea we can still withstand one even
    Last edited by Razorfyst; 02-10-2019 at 01:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shas View Post
    Lolwut? Justicar+Druid life st dmg/ justicar druid tankpet solotankswap, Jus+cabba cc, Justicar cleansetank, 'the taunting defiler', Primalist 2mil hps tank, prim mystic tank, Prim berzerker dpsT, WarrManugo, Warr ChanterVK, taunting Lib, (oclib) , literaly a taunting Shaman. Need to define 'Tank' it seems.
    Rogue hybrid tank can heal, support and tank. It will be irreplaceable unless they design specific content around clerics niche role it won't work. Cleric needs 16 points to just get the guard ability for tanking. The other classes are less than half point needed and cleric was designed the most as a 61 or bust class. Primalist, and Mage hybrids crush Cleric hybrids in terms of healing tanks.
    Cleanse bot can be done by healer tanks, Multi interrupt and CC tank are jobs that no tank, especially with a high gcd, wants to play. If required that content would probably not be doable by half the raiders. Clerics tanks who have to cleanse bot, or interrupt bot is a horrendous job and forcing the tank who is in charge of mechanics and positioning and making calls to now be in charge of cleanses and the sole interrupter is just terrible ethics in general.

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    I totally agree. If there is an instance where you have to AE interrupt/debilitate multiple times in a row it would be terrible since it is not a rewarding job unless the soul is very competitive as DPS, Support or Healing. Being responsible for this solely could take getting use too and is definitely doable but it would force a niche that only selected players can do. This was always a big problem with HK and MoM where raids required Caba just to do raid wiping CC mechanics. No one wanted to be responsible for that fumble and Caba was terrible as an AE/ST DPS soul so it was so unrewarding to play at that time.

    Revitalizing Cleric by designing content that requires a job that is deemed unrewarding to play because the soul isn't even competitive won't make sense to players who play that class and continue to be inferior in every other role. Remember this was the same problem with bosses that required Doms as well.It was very hard to find a replacement mage as a Dom for those bosses that required it. I hope that is not the intention given the fact that a lot of clerics are flocking to play other classes since PoA release. Many of the clerics I know reroll nearly a year ago and are much happier with playing their rogue or primalist or both because they can share some gear.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 02-11-2019 at 04:15 AM.

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    Telaran Razorfyst's Avatar
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    As it is right now there arn't many bosses between TDNM, IROTP, and BOS that we don't use a dedicated cleanser, Chlorocon being the favorite and 38/38 Phystact being the other for the double BR

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yarrellii View Post
    I'm worried about balance going forwards, but excited for the short term possibility to try hybrids as a way to make the 2 year old raid interesting. Longer term I am more concerned about this change.
    Balance is already completely screwed up by the legendary abilities basically forcing you to take specific off-souls to be remotely competitive...

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    I've yet to see what has changed ... I guess mainly because with most of the "hard core" players gone, it's getting hard to put together a 10 man raid of people who can even down the 1st boss in BOS, much less the second.

    I've killed the first boss several times, but honestly, it's getting harder and harder to down him because many have left. Maybe it's time to make the bosses a bit easier, given the change in the player base.

    I know that will sound like a wuss thing to say, but given the dynamics of the player base that remains, I think it's needed.
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  15. #15
    Ascendant Holyroller12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shas View Post
    Lolwut? Justicar+Druid life st dmg/ justicar druid tankpet solotankswap, Jus+cabba cc, Justicar cleansetank, 'the taunting defiler', Primalist 2mil hps tank, prim mystic tank, Prim berzerker dpsT, WarrManugo, Warr ChanterVK, taunting Lib, (oclib) , literaly a taunting Shaman. Need to define 'Tank' it seems.
    I'm talking more about balancing the skills for each class in the way they used to be back in SL/NT where certain abilities were lower in the trees which allowed for more hybridization/synergy compared to what we have now as it was later changed to be focused on 61.

    Quote Originally Posted by Proclus_Lycaeus View Post
    I've yet to see what has changed ... I guess mainly because with most of the "hard core" players gone, it's getting hard to put together a 10 man raid of people who can even down the 1st boss in BOS, much less the second.

    I've killed the first boss several times, but honestly, it's getting harder and harder to down him because many have left. Maybe it's time to make the bosses a bit easier, given the change in the player base.

    I know that will sound like a wuss thing to say, but given the dynamics of the player base that remains, I think it's needed.
    Plenty of us still do multiple runs/clears on multiple characters on a weekly basis and they had already added nerfs just prior to the acquisition. I wouldn't want to see another nerf until a new tier/raids comes and who knows if/when that will be. Realistically (from a player standpoint anyway) it should've been kept the same as the Comet of Ahnket raid (which was technically going to be this expansions first raid, but released it early since it was ready) where there's 3 difficulties to allow people to work their way up and start off on whatever difficulty they feel comfortable with. Easy mode (LFR) being introduction and for those that just want to see the content, Normal for well... normal raiders / casual raiders and then hard mode for those that enjoy the challenge and for everyone else that wants to, to work their way up to later.

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