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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Letter about Rift....soon?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigerhawkT3 View Post
    You think we'll get new content after the devs were stuck for a year and then suddenly laid off without a chance to even do any training for replacements, and I'm the one being naive?
    Those people used every excuse in the book, wrote another volume of excuses to not do the bloody jobs. And somehow, some way, you evidently know the qualifications of the people taking over... If these folks cannot write code, they should find work that they are competent in.

    We still to this day have no evidence that can be vetted proving what direction this game or any other title, for that matter is going.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fasti View Post
    As it turns out, yes, the letter was close at hand! Thanks for your patience.
    This is considered a producer's or game team letter?


  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMX View Post
    Those people used every excuse in the book, wrote another volume of excuses to not do the bloody jobs. And somehow, some way, you evidently know the qualifications of the people taking over... If these folks cannot write code, they should find work that they are competent in.

    We still to this day have no evidence that can be vetted proving what direction this game or any other title, for that matter is going.
    I see that you know nothing of software development. To put it briefly, it's not a burger joint where anyone can just walk in, look at the instructions printed on the counter, and slap some McWhoppers together. Jumping into the middle of someone else's project is a special kind of hell. Whatever the reason for letting go of all those Trion employees, they would've been kept around for at least another few weeks to train their replacements (I've been in those shoes) if there was any expectation for the projects they were working on to remain active.

    You're making a lot of assumptions from a position of ignorance, not to mention insulting dozens of people who were recently laid off without warning, and being pretty snippy to me as well.

  4. #34
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    On second thought, I'll just hold on to my 2 cents.
    Last edited by Sails; 11-09-2018 at 09:23 PM.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigerhawkT3 View Post
    I see that you know nothing of software development. To put it briefly, it's not a burger joint where anyone can just walk in, look at the instructions printed on the counter, and slap some McWhoppers together. Jumping into the middle of someone else's project is a special kind of hell. Whatever the reason for letting go of all those Trion employees, they would've been kept around for at least another few weeks to train their replacements (I've been in those shoes) if there was any expectation for the projects they were working on to remain active.

    You're making a lot of assumptions from a position of ignorance, not to mention insulting dozens of people who were recently laid off without warning, and being pretty snippy to me as well.
    While actually both of you covering and worried for lack of content, both of you have wrong points, specially like devtools are being broken, actual issue is not they are being broken but they needed update to support changes for 64-bit HP changes for letting them being able to make new raids.

    Meanwhile, they could bring new dungeons, open world content, maybe even promised NMT7 or beyond, work on planar fragments, fix on going issues for any aspect of the game, we can add many other stuff to this list, claims like "broken devtools" just shows how unprofessional was trion being lately, they were not only publisher but also developer of this game, means they had all source codes for years and possibly had all past and present versions on their local repositories, not releasing any new zone, any actual balance fix for 17+ months and no new raid for 12 months is acceptable to let us believe dev tools were broken all time.

    TLDR; their tools weren't broken but not supporting changes needed for 64-bit change only.
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by aileen View Post
    While actually both of you covering and worried for lack of content, both of you have wrong points, specially like devtools are being broken, actual issue is not they are being broken but they needed update to support changes for 64-bit HP changes for letting them being able to make new raids.

    Meanwhile, they could bring new dungeons, open world content, maybe even promised NMT7 or beyond, work on planar fragments, fix on going issues for any aspect of the game, we can add many other stuff to this list, claims like "broken devtools" just shows how unprofessional was trion being lately, they were not only publisher but also developer of this game, means they had all source codes for years and possibly had all past and present versions on their local repositories, not releasing any new zone, any actual balance fix for 17+ months and no new raid for 12 months is acceptable to let us believe dev tools were broken all time.

    TLDR; their tools weren't broken but not supporting changes needed for 64-bit change only.
    Given that they kept complaining that their tools were breaking and they had to repeatedly stop work to fix them, it seems reasonable to conclude that their tools were breaking. Part of the reason for this, also according to devs, was due to the switch to 64-bit ints. Given that both of these pieces of information came from the same source, I'm not sure why you dismiss one and believe the other. Why we needed bosses with gigantic health pools I can't say - I would just give them a buff that reduces their damage taken, which would increase their effective health - but that's what the problem was (reportedly).

    Given that new dungeons, OW content, planar fragments, or any other of the game's myriad areas for potential improvement also didn't see any improvement, I think the problem was more severe than just raid boss health pools. Frankly, I find "broken dev tools" a much more credible claim than "Rift is doing great," "everything is fine," "we're making progress but we can't show evidence because it's all secret," "the Producer's Letter is coming soon," "the Producer's Letter will actually communicate information," and other things we've been hearing for a pretty long time.

    Having access to source code is not a silver bullet. Like I said, software development is not simple. It's entirely possible to know a language backwards and forwards, read someone's code in that language, and take days or weeks to figure out what it's doing, followed by months to actually do anything useful with it. And we did get some pretty significant soul changes a few months ago. I don't know that they were good changes - one-button Tempest is stupid, and Chantion is still at the top - but they happened.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigerhawkT3 View Post
    Given that they kept complaining that their tools were breaking and they had to repeatedly stop work to fix them, it seems reasonable to conclude that their tools were breaking. Part of the reason for this, also according to devs, was due to the switch to 64-bit ints. Given that both of these pieces of information came from the same source, I'm not sure why you dismiss one and believe the other. Why we needed bosses with gigantic health pools I can't say - I would just give them a buff that reduces their damage taken, which would increase their effective health - but that's what the problem was (reportedly).

    Given that new dungeons, OW content, planar fragments, or any other of the game's myriad areas for potential improvement also didn't see any improvement, I think the problem was more severe than just raid boss health pools. Frankly, I find "broken dev tools" a much more credible claim than "Rift is doing great," "everything is fine," "we're making progress but we can't show evidence because it's all secret," "the Producer's Letter is coming soon," "the Producer's Letter will actually communicate information," and other things we've been hearing for a pretty long time.

    Having access to source code is not a silver bullet. Like I said, software development is not simple. It's entirely possible to know a language backwards and forwards, read someone's code in that language, and take days or weeks to figure out what it's doing, followed by months to actually do anything useful with it. And we did get some pretty significant soul changes a few months ago. I don't know that they were good changes - one-button Tempest is stupid, and Chantion is still at the top - but they happened.
    In logical situation devtools for any developer wouldn't stop working on current enviroment of software development going on unless the software they needed to use the tools changed in particular way.

    RIFT's server side was having issues with unit HP designed as signed 32-bit integer which limited maximum amount they could set to 2147483648, first time players realized this with Tartaric Depths Normal version release when Malannon had 1.950m HP and then players kept asking devs on certain platforms about of it, did they use 32-bit or 64-bit definition for unit HP, answer was they used 32-bit, then we saw that in Bastion of Steel when either pseudo-boss introduced as 1st phase or many add waves or some extra pillars needed to be destroyed.

    Other than 64-bit issue, their dev tools keep working, as a result of it they developed RIFT Prime but all issues on live either discarded or players kept being delayed. Sadly RIFT Prime also had problems like content drought and lack of testing which is actual problems we are facing on live.

    Class balance in general forgotten but instead of working on class balance they kept developing new souls, this was hot topic on old community discord, I mentioned it on other posts as well.

    Sadly, while devs had their efforts lack of man power in all aspects (designing, testing, developing) is result of current state of game but devtools not supporting particular 64-bit change for unit HP, another sad thing is Vladd and Keyens keep telling us (and they were believing as well), increase of team size won't help for game at all, like we asked maybe get 1 more class dev etc.

    Yet, if they planned certain stats and do inflations instead of absurd bumps on them they wouldn't face 64-bit issue till end of this expansion or even next expansion, item levels bumped from 1000s to 5000s, planar fragments pushing tons of tertiary stats instead of actual tertiary stats on gear slots we had, eternals, legendaries and millions of dps resulted high amount of HP values, which points unplanned development and management issues.

    I also agree with you other stuff you mentioned like claims like "Rift is doing great" wasn't helping but blaming devtools when they are not broken is cheap excuse.

    PS: I'm talking as computer engineer with 20+ years experience and I know developing software is not easy yet none of stuff you mentioned related with actual development but designing issues.

    PSS: Also who ever keep saying and believing RIFT is doing good, everything was okay either was big liar or had big mental issues which forced them to live on fantasy world.
    Last edited by aileen; 11-10-2018 at 03:34 AM.
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by aileen View Post
    In logical situation devtools for any developer wouldn't stop working on current enviroment of software development going on unless the software they needed to use the tools changed in particular way.
    Well, the software they needed to use the tools did change in a particular way.

    Quote Originally Posted by aileen View Post
    RIFT's server side was having issues with unit HP designed as signed 32-bit integer which limited maximum amount they could set to 2147483648, first time players realized this with Tartaric Depths Normal version release when Malannon had 1.950m HP and then players kept asking devs on certain platforms about of it, did they use 32-bit or 64-bit definition for unit HP, answer was they used 32-bit, then we saw that in Bastion of Steel when either pseudo-boss introduced as 1st phase or many add waves or some extra pillars needed to be destroyed.
    Yeah, I don't know why they didn't just leave health pools alone and increase effective health through damage reduction. Would raiders really be so mad to suddenly be doing 700k DPS in the newest raid rather than the 1.4m they were used to? I think they'd understand what was going on. Or how about a shield? Or multiple phases?

    Quote Originally Posted by aileen View Post
    Other than 64-bit issue, their dev tools keep working, as a result of it they developed RIFT Prime but all issues on live either discarded or players kept being delayed. Sadly RIFT Prime also had problems like content drought and lack of testing which is actual problems we are facing on live.
    "Other than the problem, there was no problem!" Oooookay.

    Quote Originally Posted by aileen View Post
    Class balance in general forgotten but instead of working on class balance they kept developing new souls, this was hot topic on old community discord, I mentioned it on other posts as well.
    Sad, but makes sense - new souls can be sold for money, while changes to existing souls are not. This is common to every industry: if something doesn't show up as a line item on the quarterly balance sheet, it's very hard to justify pouring resources into it.

    Quote Originally Posted by aileen View Post
    Sadly, while devs had their efforts lack of man power in all aspects (designing, testing, developing) is result of current state of game but devtools not supporting particular 64-bit change for unit HP, another sad thing is Vladd and Keyens keep telling us (and they were believing as well), increase of team size won't help for game at all, like we asked maybe get 1 more class dev etc.
    Adding manpower to a software project can go either way, depending on the scope of the project.

    Quote Originally Posted by aileen View Post
    Yet, if they planned certain stats and do inflations instead of absurd bumps on them they wouldn't face 64-bit issue till end of this expansion or even next expansion, item levels bumped from 1000s to 5000s, planar fragments pushing tons of tertiary stats instead of actual tertiary stats on gear slots we had, eternals, legendaries and millions of dps resulted high amount of HP values, which points unplanned development and management issues.
    Increasing effective health without touching health pools would've been a fine solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by aileen View Post
    I also agree with you other stuff you mentioned like claims like "Rift is doing great" wasn't helping but blaming devtools when they are not broken is cheap excuse.
    Do you perhaps mean that it's the design tools that were broken due to this engineering difficulty? Or do you mean that nothing was broken because when you exclude the broken parts, everything that remains is fine? Or do you think that Trion designers and devs were just flat-out lying because they enjoyed showing up to work and sitting around pretending to be stuck?

    http://forums.riftgame.com/general-d...ml#post5364205

    Quote Originally Posted by aileen View Post
    PS: I'm talking as computer engineer with 20+ years experience and I know developing software is not easy yet none of stuff you mentioned related with actual development but designing issues.
    Okay, so you admit there were issues with "designing." It's because the design tools didn't work. The design tools didn't work because the devs tried changing something that they really shouldn't have touched. At the end of the day, people couldn't get work done. If there's a power outage, do you insist that your idle coworkers stop sitting around and get to work, because the lack of power is a storm issue and not a development issue, and other than that, everything is fine?

    Quote Originally Posted by aileen View Post
    PSS: Also who ever keep saying and believing RIFT is doing good, everything was okay either was big liar or had big mental issues which forced them to live on fantasy world.
    Well, that's marketing, and some Rift players still believe it. They look at the recent Producer's Letter with "we're working on secret stuff, and we have plans, and please give suggestions for plans, bright future, blah blah blah" that Fasti posted and think Rift is about to get a huge investment to produce an expansion and fix bugs and so on.

    Insisting that every problem is an "excuse" and that bringing on a "competent" team will solve everything so Rift can move forward again is a symptom of faith in this marketing. The old team was a bunch of sinners, but the new team will be great, hallelujah!

  9. #39
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    The previous entity had an encyclopedia of excuses that eclipses the Encyclopedia Britanic by 20 volumes.

    One major problem (thank you Aileen) was the massive increase in numbers in general. Reasonable increases per xpac make sense however the HP and dps numbers in this exp make no sense, period.

    Cheap, lazy excuse, indeed!
    Where was the "effort" when a T2 is a single room with an activation orb?
    That is only one shining example of laziness in lieu of cash grab with no return to players.

    Brasse and her claims that (Sugar coatings applied while you wait) was just peachy at TWI is a bloody joke! Yus, the community saw through the BS. So did CHAPTER 7, as it prevailed.
    Banned

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    Quote Originally Posted by BMX View Post
    The previous entity had an encyclopedia of excuses that eclipses the Encyclopedia Britanic by 20 volumes.

    One major problem (thank you Aileen) was the massive increase in numbers in general. Reasonable increases per xpac make sense however the HP and dps numbers in this exp make no sense, period.

    Cheap, lazy excuse, indeed!
    Where was the "effort" when a T2 is a single room with an activation orb?
    That is only one shining example of laziness in lieu of cash grab with no return to players.

    Brasse and her claims that (Sugar coatings applied while you wait) was just peachy at TWI is a bloody joke! Yus, the community saw through the BS. So did CHAPTER 7, as it prevailed.
    I don't see any of that as an "excuse" for anything. A single-room raid isn't even in the same category as an excuse; it's something that demands explanation.

    I'm just telling you that the idea of a new team rolling in and fixing everything is a misguided illusion. The old team wasn't having trouble because they were lazy or stupid or malicious. When they were let go, they didn't take all the problems with them. Any new team would be faced with the same problems, without the benefit of experience or training. If there was any intention of continuing serious work on the project, there would have been a more graceful transition.

  11. #41
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    this game died? finally, that ******ed dev(or game director) who called their playerbase idiots on live stream few years ago got what he deserved, a dead gaem.

    Justice is slow but righteous

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigerhawkT3 View Post
    "Other than the problem, there was no problem!" Oooookay.
    Yes, 64-bit issue only stopped them to release new raid encounter on T3 level, other than their devtools actually never stopped them to fix any ongoing issues or adding any other type of contents I described which is sad.
    Quote Originally Posted by TigerhawkT3 View Post
    Okay, so you admit there were issues with "designing." It's because the design tools didn't work. The design tools didn't work because the devs tried changing something that they really shouldn't have touched. At the end of the day, people couldn't get work done. If there's a power outage, do you insist that your idle coworkers stop sitting around and get to work, because the lack of power is a storm issue and not a development issue, and other than that, everything is fine?
    Well I meant its not actual software development done by engineering team interfering but content added by designers not getting any pace and any actual addition to actual content pool we had. I get what you mean but only time they also mentioned devtools being broken was RR on stream and he was explaining what was progress and what interfered which is actually sad all the needed stuff done on server side but they didn't have enough time and possibly man power to update devtools to support it.
    Last edited by aileen; 11-10-2018 at 09:58 AM.
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